Just fuck my Brexit up

NotKiyo | Respected Posting Riot
 
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LOL glorious.


 
 
Flee
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UH OOOOOOH

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46446694
Who would've thought. Brexit is such an appalling mistake and it should be ditched asap.

Also, the ECJ Advocate General has let on that the UK can unilaterally stop Brexit by just rescinding their invocation of article 50. Holding the door open in case you guys want to come back.
Shouldn't they honor the first referendum by leaving first?
No.
So what happens now? Ignore the will of the people? This how we preserve faith in our democratic system?
Ideally, we treat the referendum for what it was: purely advisory, non-binding and never intended to shackle the government to what a miniscule majority favored.

The will of the people can also change. People voted on a pipe dream of what Brexit might be and how it would pan out. Those who voted Remain all wanted the exact same and very concrete thing. Those who voted Leave are a basket case of people who all have a different view of what Brexit should be. Some want a complete no deal severance of all ties with Europe. Others want to remain in the Single Market with limitless trading, or to adopt one of the many other types of arrangements (Canada / USA / Norway / Switzerland style...), or only to stop people from freely moving and working in the UK, or a million other things. There's thousands of people who are going "well, I wanted to leave the EU but not like that - that's a terrible idea and not worth it". It's like someone saying they just want to get rid of their special membership card at the local supermarket and then be told afterwards that this also means they'll be banned from the store entirely. Your hardcore Brexiter might say "if we're leaving on those terms and maintain a trade relationship with the EU, then we're just following their rules without having a say in them - that's an even worse situation than what we had before, fuck it", while your mild Leaver might have the opposite opinion and say "woah, I wanted out of the EU bureaucracy but not if it meant we'd have to close our entire border and miss out on billions in trade with the EU, fuck that".

It's not really the will of the people when you force them to deal in absolutes and make a simple yes/no decision on an incredibly complex topic they likely don't even fully understand the consequences of and don't even know what the outcome will look like. It's like being asked to choose between a free holiday abroad (sounds great!) or just staying at home, when choosing the first unexpectedly has you travel 3 days in the back of a garbage truck to get to a grimy motel in the shittiest part of another country. Had you known that the free trip would be like that, you would've never agreed to it. It's hardly the people's will when it relates to a topic they've been fed dozens of lies, empty promises and misleading propaganda about. It's no longer informed, accurate or truthful at that point.

And this is by far the best way to keep faith in our democratic system. There's a reason we more or less ditched direct democracy. Specialization is a cornerstone of societal and economic development and progress. The more complicated stuff gets, the less we can all be experts at everything. It's why instead of every household learning how to make its own crappy shoes, baskets, houses and food, we now have people who specialize and excel at all these things so that we trade our skills for the best results. Same thing applies here. We can't all be experts with years of experience and degrees in trade, diplomacy, law, science, environmental policy, economics, healthcare and so on, which is why we elected people who share our values but do know these things to represent us and make informed, beneficial and smart decisions based on our votes.

Brexit is a horrible mistake and that's becoming more obvious by the day. Asking John Doe who couldn't even tell you what the EU is and who's oblivious to the fact that it subsidizes more than half his agricultural business to make a huge decision after reading bold lies in the Sun about how Europe is going to make Juncker the new King of England is insane, and then following up on it over the tiniest minority is even more so.
Last Edit: December 05, 2018, 04:22:58 PM by Flee


 
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I DONT GIVE A SINGLE -blam!- MOTHER -blam!-ER ITS A MOTHER -blam!-ING FORUM, OH WOW, YOU HAVE THE WORD NINJA BELOW YOUR NAME, HOW MOTHER -blam!-ING COOL, NOT, YOUR ARE NOTHING TO ME BUT A BRAINWASHED PIECE OF SHIT BLOGGER, PEOPLE ONLY LIKE YOU BECAUSE YOU HAVE NINJA BELOW YOUR NAME, SO PLEASE PUNCH YOURAELF IN THE FACE AND STAB YOUR EYE BECAUSE YOU ARE NOTHING BUT A PIECE OF SHIT OF SOCIETY
It’s a Russian bot. I don’t understand why he still isn’t banned.


 
Verbatim
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It’s a Russian bot. I don’t understand why he still isn’t banned.
it's kinda cute


Genghis Khan | Heroic Unstoppable!
 
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It’s a Russian bot. I don’t understand why he still isn’t banned.
I wear my tin foil hat under MAGA cap every time I deal with progressives.


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Genghis Khan | Heroic Unstoppable!
 
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YouTube


Fedorekd | Mythic Inconceivable!
 
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I love you, son.


 
 
Flee
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Flee
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Fedorekd | Mythic Inconceivable!
 
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I love you, son.
https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/1075372776591106048

How can one man be so based?

EDIT: nevermind he actually said "stupid people"

still based though
Last Edit: December 19, 2018, 10:01:46 AM by Fedorekd


 
 
Flee
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>the financial sector has already moved over $1 trillion from the UK to the EU because of Brexit
>the UK financial services industry is becoming considerably smaller
>these are the most conservative estimates based only on what the biggest banks have recently announced in public
>Bank of England warns that a Brexit without a deal will hurt the UK and its people more than the massive 2008 financial crisis
>several thousands of jobs have essentially moved from the UK to Europeans as finance businesses move offices
>this is ongoing and looking to only increase over the next few weeks

Someone should put that on a big red bus and drive it around the country. At this point, I'm sure we could make a strong case that the hardcore Brexiteers such as Farage are actually EU sleeper agents pushing Brexit as a means of siphoning UK resources and wealth to the European mainland.

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/01/07/investing/brexit-banks-moving-assets/index.html


Fedorekd | Mythic Inconceivable!
 
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I love you, son.


NO CONFIDENCE


Genghis Khan | Heroic Unstoppable!
 
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Why vote for any party besides UKIP in UK.


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Long live NoNolesNeckin.

Ya fuckin' ganderneck.
I'm not really a fan of second referendums as a matter of principle, but this was still pretty hilarious.

YouTube


 
 
Flee
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I'm not really a fan of second referendums as a matter of principle, but this was still pretty hilarious.

YouTube

That's great.

And while I wasn't much in favor of another referendum back in the early days after the vote, I think there's been enough new developments over the past two and a half years to warrant another one. The way in which the first referendum was held was proposterous by making the Leave option a basket case of different opinions. The Leave campaign has been proven to have illegally misused campaign funds to affect the vote, there is considerable evidence that foreign governments with stakes in a divided Europe have been involved in voter manipulation and widespread misinformation campaigns, and the news leading up to the vote has been absolutely horrible with propaganda and attacks being thrown around as if Trump was in the room. Many of the Leave campaign's threats have proven to be completely fabricated and unfounded (f.e: Turkey about to join the EU and flood the UK with tens of millions of Muslims) while many of its promises have been broken from day 1 onwards (f.e: the £350 million that would go into the NHS every week, the idea that the UK would just get to keep all the same benefits without any of the responsibilities...). Meanwhile, much of what Remain warned of has come to pass despite Brexit not even having happened yet (f.e: rise of hate crimes, drain of jobs and finances, hits to the economy, growing concerns of resources, prices going up, necessary labor forces dwindling...) as several of the hoped Brexit scenarios have either been wiped of the table because the EU refused, or ended up giving the EU plenty of control in key areas while stripping the UK of much of its influence.

It took the British government two years to come up with a deal. That deal had less than 15% of citizens supporting it and was rejected by both progressives and conservatives in the largest defeat the government had seen in history. The real affront to democracy is not to hold a second referendum. It would be to treat a non-binding and advisory vote won with a marginal majority over 2.5 years ago as gospel when the circumstances have changed entirely and it's become clear that many of the downsides which were rejected as fearmongering are actually happening and that most of the promised benefits are impossible to achieve or were downright lies.


Genghis Khan | Heroic Unstoppable!
 
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Hard Brexit is what everyone wants who voted for Brexit.


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If I'm not here, I'm doing Photography. Or I'm asleep. Or hungover. One of those three, anyway.

The current titlebar/avatar setup is courtesy of Ugly Americans, with a little hint of Apocalypse Now.
Heard that some MP's are planning to propose a "Norway" Deal to the PM.

Fuck me all you need to see is the news every so often to know that that exact deal was proposed months ago, and declined because:

i) Basically has the UK remain in the EU but in less stature (i.e. no say on EU policy or voting, just like Norway deals with EU laws in return for some minor freedom... in fishery policy or whaling I think? The former reason being off the table for the UK because of its proximity to France/Netherlands and Ireland, and the latter the UK isn't interested in.

ii) The fucking Norwegians said no because it wouldn't be in their own interests a few weeks ago on Euronews (as with all other Nordic countries not directly in the EU, I forgot the abbreviation they have) by having a "Norway" Deal with bits and bobs on the side, that devalues Norway's own deal with the EU, and in turn wouldn't be in the EU's interest to fuck over some countries that want to remain with them than the fuckers here who want to leave.

Sometimes I have sympathy for May, only because a third of her party are a bunch of self serving morons, her slim majority is run by some crazy chest thumping orange-marching bastards, her supporters are varying shades of complete wank, and the opposition aren't doing fuck all either. Currently the only party supporting a 2nd referendum are the the Scottish National Party and their counterparts in Plaid Cymru, essentially hamstrung by their own parties' national identities, and the Lolberal Democrats who I think have <10 seats and are led by god knows who anymore.


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Long live NoNolesNeckin.

Ya fuckin' ganderneck.
I'm not in the know on Brexit, but I thought the entire point of it was to gain independence from EU law. What is the point of "leaving" if the deal you make is just going to keep the country subject to it?


Leonard Kurtz | Legendary Invincible!
 
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If I'm not here, I'm doing Photography. Or I'm asleep. Or hungover. One of those three, anyway.

The current titlebar/avatar setup is courtesy of Ugly Americans, with a little hint of Apocalypse Now.
I'm not in the know on Brexit, but I thought the entire point of it was to gain independence from EU law. What is the point of "leaving" if the deal you make is just going to keep the country subject to it?

The UK is intrinsically tied to the EU in law, like fishing rights between France and the UK, and in the economy, with over 2/3rds of UK trade being with the EU. Leaving that is essentially impossible, let alone ridiculous as atm they can't trade with anyone outside of the EU on their own. The UK can't afford to lose the trade.

Buuuut since the UK has no bargaining chips and it's 1 country versus 26/27, the UK haven't been very successful in getting what they want, i.e. trade with the EU but being outside of the EU.

Instead the only Brexit deal they have been getting that keeps trade intact is the current proposed and subsequently shot down deal, which is what make the UK a sort of "trading partner" like Switzerland or Norway, that follow the laws of the EU for the trade deals, but have no say in those laws.

And you are correct, why would anyone sign up for that? Remainers point out it's essentially a crap deal to keep ties, and Brexiteers say it doesn't do enough, and both groups are right.


 
 
Flee
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I'm not in the know on Brexit, but I thought the entire point of it was to gain independence from EU law. What is the point of "leaving" if the deal you make is just going to keep the country subject to it?
That's one of the many follies of it all. The EU is one of the largest economies in the world. It's rivaled only by the US and China and, depending on the metric you use, beats them in some aspects. This allows it to make high demands with trading partners wanting to enter the "European single market". It all depends on the sector and the country involved, but the EU seeks to maintain a high standard of adequacy for the quality of foreign products and services.

You want to sell your (foodstuff) to the EU? Sure, but you have to make sure you follow every single one of its rules regarding health, safety, hormones, pesticides, labeling, packaging, origin and so forth before you're allowed to do so. Oh, you want to offer a digital service to people in the EU? Perfect, but keep in mind that the GDPR applies to businesses located outside of Europe too so you have to show you're in compliance with all laws on data processing. You want to introduce a new cellphone plan to Europe? No problem, but you'll have to follow all the standards for non-sim locked cards, the abolition of roaming fees, the guarantee that people can easily transfer to other providers... You get the point. You want to trade with the EU? Be prepared to follow all of its rules, standards, human rights clauses and so on. The EU can do without the UK just fine, but the opposite? Not so much. The UK simply needs the European market to export its goods and services to. So even after Brexit, the UK will still have to effectively abide by most of the European legislation and convert it into its national laws and courts as well.The main difference is that the country will then have given up its very influential position in the EU and will have no say in any of its policies.


 
Ender
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No.
Last Edit: February 02, 2019, 05:15:16 AM by Flee


 
Ender
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PP


 
 
Mr. Psychologist
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<.<
why are you like this


Deleted | Mythic Inconceivable!
 
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why are you like this

Holy hell you're alive?


Desty | Mythic Inconceivable!
 
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why are you like this

Holy hell you're alive?
yes my autistic black friend, they're all alive, above 18 or 18, and living happily ever after


 
 
Mr. Psychologist
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<.<
why are you like this

Holy hell you're alive?
yes lol

Can't say I come here too often these days but I'm still about


Fedorekd | Mythic Inconceivable!
 
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I love you, son.
Is it socially acceptable to call Brexiteers stupid yet?


Genghis Khan | Heroic Unstoppable!
 
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Is it socially acceptable to call Brexiteers stupid yet?
Why are they stupid? Didn't Britain use to rule majority of the world at some point?