Is the Israeli State tantamount to Middle Eastern Stability?

 
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The argument is often thrown around that, with the establishment of a strong democracy like Israel in the Middle East, it will eventually begin to stabilize other countries in the region and help end violence in the region. At the same time, conflicts within the Middle East have been on the rise since the end of World War 1, when the Ottoman Empire dissolved, Palestine came under British rule, and the Israeli State movement really began to gain steam.

So, what are your thoughts?

 
 
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Of course it is, if only to slap their neighbours when they step the fuck outta line.

 
 
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Quote from: Meta Cognition on December 01, 2014, 12:11:52 PM
Of course it is, if only to slap their neighbours when they step the fuck outta line.

You'd think Israel would be more involved in the Syrian conflict, considering ISIS is likely to turn their heads towards them eventually.

But, others will also argue that Israel existing (Or, at least existing in the scope it has today) has only fueled their neighbors to step the fuck outta line.

 
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Quote from: Dustin a Nut on December 01, 2014, 12:15:08 PM
I don't know if I want Middle Eastern stability.

.... Wut

 
 
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Quote from: Dustin a Nut on December 01, 2014, 12:15:08 PM
I don't know if I want Middle Eastern stability.
You can still answer the question, it'd just be phrased inversely to somebody who wanted Middle Eastern stability.

 
 
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Quote from: IcyWind on December 01, 2014, 12:13:32 PM
But, others will also argue that Israel existing (Or, at least existing in the scope it has today) has only fueled their neighbors to step the fuck outta line.
Anyone who is willing to stand up, look at Hamas's political agenda, and still maintain that Israel is the source of unrest is fucking deluded.

 
 
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Quote from: Meta Cognition on December 01, 2014, 12:17:20 PM
Quote from: IcyWind on December 01, 2014, 12:13:32 PM
But, others will also argue that Israel existing (Or, at least existing in the scope it has today) has only fueled their neighbors to step the fuck outta line.
Anyone who is willing to stand up, look at Hamas's political agenda, and still maintain that Israel is the source of unrest is fucking deluded.

Not simply talking about Hamas.

 
 
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Quote from: IcyWind on December 01, 2014, 12:18:58 PM
Not simply talking about Hamas.
The rest aren't much better.

 
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Quote from: Meta Cognition on December 01, 2014, 12:19:59 PM
Quote from: IcyWind on December 01, 2014, 12:18:58 PM
Not simply talking about Hamas.
The rest aren't much better.

Yet, to solely place the blame on the other states in the region and their political agenda/beliefs, without looking at Israel and their problems and causes of tension, is simply lopsided.

If anything, post-Arab Spring Tunisia serves as a better model.

 
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I wouldn't say it will, or has exactly stabilised the region.

It was propped up by Western Democracy which is pretty counter-cultural to the East's norm, and not to mention the underlying racism in the area is certainly not helping Israel.

I'd say the existence of Israel has to some extent generated unrest. When the '67 war ended, Israel took a bunch of land from everyone as buffer zones, and has only maintained some form of stability by having far superior armies than everyone else. While Israel have every right not to be friendly with their neighbors, maintaining semi-neutral stances with everyone there isn't helping them improve relations either.

If they didn't have those, I reckon Israel would have been wiped off the map a while ago, and would have been absorbed into the various countries surrounding it. Not even West Bank - Gaza/Palestine would exist.
Last Edit: December 01, 2014, 12:24:41 PM by SuperIrish

 
 
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Quote from: IcyWind on December 01, 2014, 12:21:24 PM
without looking at Israel and their problems and causes of tension, is simply lopsided.
Israel is quite unique in its position in being an incredibly reactive state. Fundamentalists have been using the Qur'an since the time of Thomas Jefferson to justify crimes against foreigners, not just the Israelis, and that wouldn't change if Israel didn't exist as a State.

 
 
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Quote from: Meta Cognition on December 01, 2014, 12:25:11 PM
Quote from: IcyWind on December 01, 2014, 12:21:24 PM
without looking at Israel and their problems and causes of tension, is simply lopsided.
Fundamentalists have been using the Qur'an since the time of Thomas Jefferson to justify crimes against foreigners, not just the Israelis, and that wouldn't change if Israel didn't exist as a State.

People would say the same thing about Christianity, especially during the Crusades and Middle Ages - something that can be argued is currently ongoing in the Middle East, their own Middle Ages.

 
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>middle east
>stability

Wut

 
 
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Quote from: challengerX on December 01, 2014, 01:02:06 PM
Actually Israel is one the main reasons the Middle East is a lot less "stable" than before.
Pretty much.

Arabs do not like Jews. They do not like getting their asses handed to them every time they go to war with Jews, either.

Because the west tends to back the Jewish state, a lot of Arabs are not inclined to support the west.

 
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Nah

Just after Israel formed, issues began to rise and have continued to this day. Israel is counter-productive to Middle-Eastern stability and a catalyst of aggression by many others. Nations like Turkey, UAE, Qatar, and a lesser extent of Saudi Arabia and Egypt (though African) are the better alternatives

 
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Quote from: Kinder on December 01, 2014, 02:30:53 PM
Nah

Just after Israel formed, issues began to rise and have continued to this day. Israel is counter-productive to Middle-Eastern stability and a catalyst of aggression by many others. Nations like Turkey, UAE, Qatar, and a lesser extent of Saudi Arabia and Egypt (though African) are the better alternatives
>Saudi Arabia
>a positive example ever

You just compared one of the worst regimes for human rights to Turkey.

 
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Quote from: Sargon of Akkad on December 01, 2014, 10:00:06 PM
Quote from: Kinder on December 01, 2014, 02:30:53 PM
Nah

Just after Israel formed, issues began to rise and have continued to this day. Israel is counter-productive to Middle-Eastern stability and a catalyst of aggression by many others. Nations like Turkey, UAE, Qatar, and a lesser extent of Saudi Arabia and Egypt (though African) are the better alternatives
>Saudi Arabia
>a positive example ever

You just compared one of the worst regimes for human rights to Turkey.
I did say to a lesser extent. It's not a pretty place for many things, but there are other things it is good at. At least its not Iraq and Syria with blood-crazed killers on the loose

 
 
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