If you're born with a penis, you're a man. If you're born with a vagina, you're a woman.
Going by proper delineation of what constitutes a mental disorder, yes, I would argue that even homosexuality is a mental disorder.But that doesn't make it bad, wrong, "lesser", or more disgusting than any other sexual orientation/gender identification (indeed, I think they're all equally useless and disgusting).It just means something went awry during the whole genetic makeup process, or something like that. I'm not a neuroscientist. Overall, it's entirely inconsequential and a complete non-issue to anyone of rational tutelage.
Quote from: SecondClass on September 14, 2014, 05:33:06 PMIf you're born with a penis, you're a man. If you're born with a vagina, you're a woman. Objectively incorrect.Sex =/= gender.
Quote from: Mad Max on September 14, 2014, 05:34:34 PMQuote from: SecondClass on September 14, 2014, 05:33:06 PMIf you're born with a penis, you're a man. If you're born with a vagina, you're a woman. Objectively incorrect.Sex =/= gender.He meant to say "biologically male" and "biologically female". Keyword being "biologically". Our SecondClass friend isn't good with words, be easy with him.He didn't even say "boy" and "girl", he literally said you're born a man or woman. But no one's pointing that out.
This is essentially the line I try to take. Although, it's heavily dependent on how you define "disorder".
Quote from: Mad Max on September 14, 2014, 05:34:34 PMQuote from: SecondClass on September 14, 2014, 05:33:06 PMIf you're born with a penis, you're a man. If you're born with a vagina, you're a woman. Objectively incorrect.Sex =/= gender.No, sex and gender are synonyms.
And we all know just how real that shit is.
I think you lose your right to talk about transgender topics when you think this to be true.
Quote from: Meta Cognition on September 14, 2014, 05:24:52 PMThe DSM-5 is a joke.Why?
The DSM-5 is a joke.
Tell that to people who are born intersex.
Quote from: SecondClass on September 14, 2014, 05:47:23 PMQuote from: Nuka on September 14, 2014, 05:46:24 PMTell that to people who are born intersex.People who are actually born intersex have a whole different ballpark. They're one of the few kinds of people that can actually choose what sex they'd like to be.>implying they have to choose just to make society happy
Quote from: Nuka on September 14, 2014, 05:46:24 PMTell that to people who are born intersex.People who are actually born intersex have a whole different ballpark. They're one of the few kinds of people that can actually choose what sex they'd like to be.
No, sex and gender are synonyms.
Quote from: SecondClass on September 14, 2014, 05:38:23 PMNo, sex and gender are synonyms.What you'd be better of saying is this:Gender is a fake concept. A social construct. A contrivance. Something that we made exist simply by perceptual fiat. Kinda like the "value" of gold, or our perception of who we are—it is a mark of who we are in our minds.
Except it's not a fake concept. Take off your pants and look down. Do you have a penis or a vagina? That, and that alone, determines what your gender is.
Quote from: SecondClass on September 14, 2014, 05:52:52 PMExcept it's not a fake concept. Take off your pants and look down. Do you have a penis or a vagina? That, and that alone, determines what your gender is.What you're doing right now, basically, is arbitrarily merging two concepts for your own convenience, which is petty and willfully ignorant.
The thing is, I'm totally with you on this argument, but to say that "gender" isn't a mere contrivance and is the same thing as sex is a sign of intellectual bankruptcy. How can we discuss this if you're going to just bend words to your own will?
Quote from: Verbatim on September 14, 2014, 05:53:51 PMThe thing is, I'm totally with you on this argument, but to say that "gender" isn't a mere contrivance and is the same thing as sex is a sign of intellectual bankruptcy. How can we discuss this if you're going to just bend words to your own will?Whatever, now we're just arguing semantics. We're deviating from the original question, to which the answer is yes. Gender dysphoria. the reason people are transgenders, is a certified mental disorder. That's what people seem to be ignoring.
Not really for my own convenience, more for the sake of objective truth.
Quote from: SecondClass on September 14, 2014, 05:49:28 PMQuote from: Nuka on September 14, 2014, 05:48:20 PMQuote from: SecondClass on September 14, 2014, 05:47:23 PMQuote from: Nuka on September 14, 2014, 05:46:24 PMTell that to people who are born intersex.People who are actually born intersex have a whole different ballpark. They're one of the few kinds of people that can actually choose what sex they'd like to be.>implying they have to choose just to make society happyAre you implying that intersex people should actually live their lives that way...? Please tell me you're not serious.They should live whatever fucking way they want because it doesn't affect anyone else in any way. Get a fucking grip and stop trying to police other people's lives. It's literally the same argument for homosexuality. Does it affect you in any personal way? No? Get the fuck over it. Not your life and not for you to decide.
Quote from: Nuka on September 14, 2014, 05:48:20 PMQuote from: SecondClass on September 14, 2014, 05:47:23 PMQuote from: Nuka on September 14, 2014, 05:46:24 PMTell that to people who are born intersex.People who are actually born intersex have a whole different ballpark. They're one of the few kinds of people that can actually choose what sex they'd like to be.>implying they have to choose just to make society happyAre you implying that intersex people should actually live their lives that way...? Please tell me you're not serious.
Quote from: SecondClass on September 14, 2014, 05:56:43 PMQuote from: Verbatim on September 14, 2014, 05:53:51 PMThe thing is, I'm totally with you on this argument, but to say that "gender" isn't a mere contrivance and is the same thing as sex is a sign of intellectual bankruptcy. How can we discuss this if you're going to just bend words to your own will?Whatever, now we're just arguing semantics. We're deviating from the original question, to which the answer is yes. Gender dysphoria. the reason people are transgenders, is a certified mental disorder. That's what people seem to be ignoring.I'd argue you're confusing causality. Transgenderism causes the dysphoria.
Quote from: Meta Cognition on September 14, 2014, 05:58:20 PMQuote from: SecondClass on September 14, 2014, 05:56:43 PMQuote from: Verbatim on September 14, 2014, 05:53:51 PMThe thing is, I'm totally with you on this argument, but to say that "gender" isn't a mere contrivance and is the same thing as sex is a sign of intellectual bankruptcy. How can we discuss this if you're going to just bend words to your own will?Whatever, now we're just arguing semantics. We're deviating from the original question, to which the answer is yes. Gender dysphoria. the reason people are transgenders, is a certified mental disorder. That's what people seem to be ignoring.I'd argue you're confusing causality. Transgenderism causes the dysphoria.Transgenderism is when you change your sex. The desire to change your sex is a result of the dysphoria.
Quote from: SecondClass on September 14, 2014, 05:54:39 PMNot really for my own convenience, more for the sake of objective truth.The discrepancies between mental and physical masculinity/femininity, being the main topic of discussion, are differentiated easily by referring to the mental as "gender" and the physical as "sex". Why would you purposely make discussion more difficult by arbitrarily creating a line of equivalence between the two words? As if the English language is the ultimate, infallible dictator of all meaning in the universe. As if words have never had their definitions changed drastically in the past.
Now you're talking about gender roles, which aren't the same thing as gender itself.
Quote from: SecondClass on September 14, 2014, 05:59:50 PMFor the former, because living like that is disgusting and no one will ever take you seriously.So just because there's some bigots out there like you clearly no one is ever going to take them seriously. Right. Because your opinion of what is disgusting and what is not is totally relevant. I think your foot fetish is disgusting, but does that have any relevance?
For the former, because living like that is disgusting and no one will ever take you seriously.
Is transgenderism a mental disorder?
