Quote from: HurtfulTurkey on January 23, 2015, 11:16:40 AMdeserve the same rights -- they can't get married, workBad, Turkey! Bad!
deserve the same rights -- they can't get married, work
Quote from: HurtfulTurkey on January 23, 2015, 02:06:57 PMQuote from: Camnator on January 23, 2015, 01:28:35 PMQuote from: HurtfulTurkey on January 23, 2015, 11:16:40 AMdeserve the same rights -- they can't get married, workBad, Turkey! Bad!What'd I do?Those are not rights you silly.
Quote from: Camnator on January 23, 2015, 01:28:35 PMQuote from: HurtfulTurkey on January 23, 2015, 11:16:40 AMdeserve the same rights -- they can't get married, workBad, Turkey! Bad!What'd I do?
Quote from: HurtfulTurkey on January 23, 2015, 03:18:20 PMQuote from: Camnator on January 23, 2015, 02:13:08 PMQuote from: HurtfulTurkey on January 23, 2015, 02:06:57 PMQuote from: Camnator on January 23, 2015, 01:28:35 PMQuote from: HurtfulTurkey on January 23, 2015, 11:16:40 AMdeserve the same rights -- they can't get married, workBad, Turkey! Bad!What'd I do?Those are not rights you silly.Not in the bill of rights, no, but I certainly have the right to provide services for money and I have a right to hold a marriage ceremony with whomever I want; they were just examples tacit rights an adult has.That's more of a freedom than a right, but that's why I just use the broader term of liberty more often now.
Quote from: Camnator on January 23, 2015, 02:13:08 PMQuote from: HurtfulTurkey on January 23, 2015, 02:06:57 PMQuote from: Camnator on January 23, 2015, 01:28:35 PMQuote from: HurtfulTurkey on January 23, 2015, 11:16:40 AMdeserve the same rights -- they can't get married, workBad, Turkey! Bad!What'd I do?Those are not rights you silly.Not in the bill of rights, no, but I certainly have the right to provide services for money and I have a right to hold a marriage ceremony with whomever I want; they were just examples tacit rights an adult has.
Quote from: Madman Mordo on January 23, 2015, 11:11:43 AMQuote from: HurtfulTurkey on January 23, 2015, 08:35:08 AMQuote from: Madman Mordo on January 23, 2015, 06:12:44 AMQuote from: HurtfulTurkey on January 22, 2015, 09:27:37 AMQuote from: Nagato on January 22, 2015, 03:07:12 AMIt's not a human at that point, I think the word you're looking for is 'person'. Fetuses are human.I think what he means is that a fetus isn't as biologically sapient as a developed human, any more than an acorn is a developed tree.Humans aren't sapient until after infancy. That doesn't seem pertinent to personhood.By sapience I mean something that can register physical pain. Fetuses do not fall under that category, and I fail to see how they can be different from a clump of skin cells and deserve the same rights as a grown human.Couldn't you make that same claim based on those small amount of people that can't feel pain?
Quote from: HurtfulTurkey on January 23, 2015, 08:35:08 AMQuote from: Madman Mordo on January 23, 2015, 06:12:44 AMQuote from: HurtfulTurkey on January 22, 2015, 09:27:37 AMQuote from: Nagato on January 22, 2015, 03:07:12 AMIt's not a human at that point, I think the word you're looking for is 'person'. Fetuses are human.I think what he means is that a fetus isn't as biologically sapient as a developed human, any more than an acorn is a developed tree.Humans aren't sapient until after infancy. That doesn't seem pertinent to personhood.By sapience I mean something that can register physical pain. Fetuses do not fall under that category, and I fail to see how they can be different from a clump of skin cells and deserve the same rights as a grown human.
Quote from: Madman Mordo on January 23, 2015, 06:12:44 AMQuote from: HurtfulTurkey on January 22, 2015, 09:27:37 AMQuote from: Nagato on January 22, 2015, 03:07:12 AMIt's not a human at that point, I think the word you're looking for is 'person'. Fetuses are human.I think what he means is that a fetus isn't as biologically sapient as a developed human, any more than an acorn is a developed tree.Humans aren't sapient until after infancy. That doesn't seem pertinent to personhood.
Quote from: HurtfulTurkey on January 22, 2015, 09:27:37 AMQuote from: Nagato on January 22, 2015, 03:07:12 AMIt's not a human at that point, I think the word you're looking for is 'person'. Fetuses are human.I think what he means is that a fetus isn't as biologically sapient as a developed human, any more than an acorn is a developed tree.
Quote from: Nagato on January 22, 2015, 03:07:12 AMIt's not a human at that point, I think the word you're looking for is 'person'. Fetuses are human.
It's not a human at that point,
A fetus before the third trimester doesn't even resemble a human.
Quote from: Madman Mordo on January 23, 2015, 03:24:54 PMA fetus before the third trimester doesn't even resemble a human.This is pretty subjective. From a genetic standpoint, a fetus looks perfectly human. From a biological standpoint, it still resembles a human because it's in one of the stages of development of humans. It's just not a compelling argument.
Quote from: HurtfulTurkey on January 23, 2015, 03:28:39 PMQuote from: Madman Mordo on January 23, 2015, 03:24:54 PMA fetus before the third trimester doesn't even resemble a human.This is pretty subjective. From a genetic standpoint, a fetus looks perfectly human. From a biological standpoint, it still resembles a human because it's in one of the stages of development of humans. It's just not a compelling argument.Not really. I mean, this is just a semantics based argument your championing here. Whether it slightly looks like a human is irrelevant (which it certainly doesn't during the first few weeks of pregnancy, and even into the first month). What matters is whether or not it holds the same thoughts, feelings and values as an actual human does, which it does not.Like really, what do you anti abortionists hope to accomplish here? Abortion is going to be around, and always has been around regardless of legality, all your really doing exacerbating the issue by outlawing it (which I hear the same argument being proposed by Camnator in regards to Marijuana and just about every other facet he's argued). The moral argument I can somewhat get since it's a huge gray area, but the legal argument is just pants on head retarded, I'm sorry.
Look, you said it doesn't resemble a human which is what I respnded to. I haven't even brought up abortion with you, I'm just telling you the reality of what a fetus is.
And the argument that abortion has always been around is what folks were saying about slavery a couple hundred years, and look how far we've come in addressing human rights since then.
Quote from: HurtfulTurkey on January 23, 2015, 05:12:18 PMLook, you said it doesn't resemble a human which is what I respnded to. I haven't even brought up abortion with you, I'm just telling you the reality of what a fetus is.You seriously need to clarify which stage a fetus begins to resemble a human. I'd argue that the 24th week would be a sign of resemblance, which is already the legal cut off date for the majority of developed nations, not to mention that resemblance is subjective anyway.
QuoteAnd the argument that abortion has always been around is what folks were saying about slavery a couple hundred years, and look how far we've come in addressing human rights since then.Holy fuck you did not just draw the comparison between abortion and slavery.I hope you also realise that slavery is just as prevalent, if not more, than it was 300 years ago.
Is smoking/drinking/doing drugs while pregnant child abuse?
