Is Education a Fundamental Right?

Alternative Facts · November 20, 2014, 09:50:39 AM

If yes - is it an adequately protected right?
If no - why not?

More Than Mortal · November 20, 2014, 09:53:07 AM

Yes, but it would probably be better provided through a much more decentralised and privatised system. People have the right to the capacity to pursue education.

Alternative Facts · November 20, 2014, 09:57:13 AM

Quote from: Meta Cognition on November 20, 2014, 09:53:07 AM

Yes, but it would probably be better provided through a much more decentralised and privatised system.

How so?

Flee · November 20, 2014, 10:04:18 AM

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Mad Max · November 20, 2014, 10:06:35 AM

Quote from: Meta Cognition on November 20, 2014, 09:53:07 AM

Yes, but it would probably be better provided through a much more decentralised and privatised system. People have the right to the capacity to pursue education.

We try that here, and like 90% of all private schools are religiously motivated in some sense. I just don't trust them to be objective.

More Than Mortal · November 20, 2014, 10:07:42 AM

Quote from: IcyWind on November 20, 2014, 09:57:13 AM

Quote from: Meta Cognition on November 20, 2014, 09:53:07 AM
Yes, but it would probably be better provided through a much more decentralised and privatised system.

How so?

eople tend to confuse rights with "the government must provide this".

As long as a system exists to ensure most people can access a service like health care or education, then that's enough, whether or not the government supplies it.

It's more an expression of my political scepticism than a disagreement with you.

More Than Mortal · November 20, 2014, 10:10:17 AM

Quote from: Mad Max on November 20, 2014, 10:06:35 AM

Quote from: Meta Cognition on November 20, 2014, 09:53:07 AM
Yes, but it would probably be better provided through a much more decentralised and privatised system. People have the right to the capacity to pursue education.
We try that here, and like 90% of all private schools are religiously motivated in some sense. I just don't trust them to be objective.

There needs to be a minimalist but national curriculum, however. I'm thinking of countries like Finland where the schools have immense administrative authority but aren't allowed to teach whatever the fuck they please.

Kinder Graham · November 20, 2014, 10:38:55 AM

Yes

But like Meta said, rights=/=government having to provide them. I'd much rather have my future children attend private school or be home schooled due to the atrocity of public education. What makes education a right wthout government providing it is that we don't have laws that ban females from getting an education, like in the Middle-East

Alternative Facts · November 20, 2014, 10:40:00 AM

Quote from: Kinder on November 20, 2014, 10:38:55 AM

I'd much rather have my future children attend private school or be home schooled due to the atrocity of public education.

Should private/home schools be able to teach the children whatever they wish?

Kinder Graham · November 20, 2014, 10:42:39 AM

Quote from: IcyWind on November 20, 2014, 10:40:00 AM

Quote from: Kinder on November 20, 2014, 10:38:55 AM
I'd much rather have my future children attend private school or be home schooled due to the atrocity of public education.

Should private/home schools be able to teach the children whatever they wish?

They still have to abide by a curriculum established by the state/city, so they can't just teach about the great flying spaghetti monster saving the wrld from the evils of the cabbage and brocoli coalition. But as long as these expectations are met, I have no issue with courses being devoted to subjects like religion

Alternative Facts · November 20, 2014, 10:44:01 AM

Quote from: Kinder on November 20, 2014, 10:42:39 AM

Quote from: IcyWind on November 20, 2014, 10:40:00 AM
Quote from: Kinder on November 20, 2014, 10:38:55 AM
I'd much rather have my future children attend private school or be home schooled due to the atrocity of public education.

Should private/home schools be able to teach the children whatever they wish?
They still have to abide by a curriculum established by the state/city, so they can't just teach about the great flying spaghetti monster saving the wrld from the evils of the cabbage and brocoli coalition. But as long as these expectations are met, I have no issue with courses being devoted to subjects like religion

Moreso the idea that people would teach their kids creationism.

Kinder Graham · November 20, 2014, 10:44:41 AM

Quote from: IcyWind on November 20, 2014, 10:44:01 AM

Quote from: Kinder on November 20, 2014, 10:42:39 AM
Quote from: IcyWind on November 20, 2014, 10:40:00 AM
Quote from: Kinder on November 20, 2014, 10:38:55 AM
I'd much rather have my future children attend private school or be home schooled due to the atrocity of public education.

Should private/home schools be able to teach the children whatever they wish?
They still have to abide by a curriculum established by the state/city, so they can't just teach about the great flying spaghetti monster saving the wrld from the evils of the cabbage and brocoli coalition. But as long as these expectations are met, I have no issue with courses being devoted to subjects like religion

Moreso the idea that people would teach their kids creationism.

And there's no issue with that

Alternative Facts · November 20, 2014, 10:45:29 AM

Quote from: Kinder on November 20, 2014, 10:44:41 AM

And there's no issue with that

There is if that's all children are taught.

Flee · November 20, 2014, 10:59:41 AM

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Kinder Graham · November 20, 2014, 11:02:42 AM

Quote from: IcyWind on November 20, 2014, 10:45:29 AM

Quote from: Kinder on November 20, 2014, 10:44:41 AM
And there's no issue with that

There is if that's all children are taught.

Now that's a huge generalization and misconception

6% of the U.S population (18,966,000) are non-religious, so there will be parents who won't teach creationism or will discuss it as part of evolution, if they are open enough

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/10/30/5-facts-about-evolution-and-religion/

60% of U.S adults have also agreed that life has changed over time

Only group you have to worry about are white/black protestants

69,436,660 of people are also Catholic and Catholics are not all that against to evolution and actually accept it. 1/3 of Catholics are also Hispanic, making that number 23,145,553

Hispanic Catholics that support evolution: 46% (10,646,954)
White Catholics that support evolution: 66% (21,293,909)

PSU · November 20, 2014, 11:05:48 AM

Quote from: Mad Max on November 20, 2014, 10:06:35 AM

Quote from: Meta Cognition on November 20, 2014, 09:53:07 AM
Yes, but it would probably be better provided through a much more decentralised and privatised system. People have the right to the capacity to pursue education.
We try that here, and like 90% of all private schools are religiously motivated in some sense. I just don't trust them to be objective.

And even being religiously motivated, they still provide a 10 times better education than pubic schools......