Quote from: SecondClass on June 07, 2016, 02:59:15 PMQuote from: Zen on June 07, 2016, 02:57:19 PMQuote from: SecondClass on June 07, 2016, 02:52:54 PMQuote from: Zen on June 07, 2016, 02:51:38 PMQuote from: SecondClass on June 07, 2016, 02:41:02 PMQuote from: challengerX on June 07, 2016, 02:39:23 PMQuote from: SecondClass on June 07, 2016, 02:33:57 PMEquality is more important than having a good military.WEWEWFar, far more important. A country isn't worth defending if the country doesn't give a shit about basic human rights.And then our shitty military loses and we're under the control of an enemy who cares even less about "basic human rights.""Letting women into combat roles will make our bloated and gigantic military useless"wewWay to miss my point. You want maximum effectiveness in the military. I'm just saying you being willing to sacrifice it's effectiveness because "muh rights" just means you let there always be a chance for the enemy to win. I don't have a problem with women serving combat roles, I do have a problem with how they lowered the standards along with it.No, we don't want "maximum effectiveness". We want the maximum effectiveness while still being a moral and decent society. Disbarring competent women from entering the military because some male soldiers would be unprofessional and value their lives more than the mission isn't a criticism against women joining, it's a criticism against those unprofessional soldiers.I'm talking about how the actual physical standards were being lowered so that more women can join. There was an article posted here a while back about that occurring. If a woman could meet the military's old standards, I'd have no problem with them serving a combat role, but lowering the bar so that more people can get in should not be done.
Quote from: Zen on June 07, 2016, 02:57:19 PMQuote from: SecondClass on June 07, 2016, 02:52:54 PMQuote from: Zen on June 07, 2016, 02:51:38 PMQuote from: SecondClass on June 07, 2016, 02:41:02 PMQuote from: challengerX on June 07, 2016, 02:39:23 PMQuote from: SecondClass on June 07, 2016, 02:33:57 PMEquality is more important than having a good military.WEWEWFar, far more important. A country isn't worth defending if the country doesn't give a shit about basic human rights.And then our shitty military loses and we're under the control of an enemy who cares even less about "basic human rights.""Letting women into combat roles will make our bloated and gigantic military useless"wewWay to miss my point. You want maximum effectiveness in the military. I'm just saying you being willing to sacrifice it's effectiveness because "muh rights" just means you let there always be a chance for the enemy to win. I don't have a problem with women serving combat roles, I do have a problem with how they lowered the standards along with it.No, we don't want "maximum effectiveness". We want the maximum effectiveness while still being a moral and decent society. Disbarring competent women from entering the military because some male soldiers would be unprofessional and value their lives more than the mission isn't a criticism against women joining, it's a criticism against those unprofessional soldiers.
Quote from: SecondClass on June 07, 2016, 02:52:54 PMQuote from: Zen on June 07, 2016, 02:51:38 PMQuote from: SecondClass on June 07, 2016, 02:41:02 PMQuote from: challengerX on June 07, 2016, 02:39:23 PMQuote from: SecondClass on June 07, 2016, 02:33:57 PMEquality is more important than having a good military.WEWEWFar, far more important. A country isn't worth defending if the country doesn't give a shit about basic human rights.And then our shitty military loses and we're under the control of an enemy who cares even less about "basic human rights.""Letting women into combat roles will make our bloated and gigantic military useless"wewWay to miss my point. You want maximum effectiveness in the military. I'm just saying you being willing to sacrifice it's effectiveness because "muh rights" just means you let there always be a chance for the enemy to win. I don't have a problem with women serving combat roles, I do have a problem with how they lowered the standards along with it.
Quote from: Zen on June 07, 2016, 02:51:38 PMQuote from: SecondClass on June 07, 2016, 02:41:02 PMQuote from: challengerX on June 07, 2016, 02:39:23 PMQuote from: SecondClass on June 07, 2016, 02:33:57 PMEquality is more important than having a good military.WEWEWFar, far more important. A country isn't worth defending if the country doesn't give a shit about basic human rights.And then our shitty military loses and we're under the control of an enemy who cares even less about "basic human rights.""Letting women into combat roles will make our bloated and gigantic military useless"wew
Quote from: SecondClass on June 07, 2016, 02:41:02 PMQuote from: challengerX on June 07, 2016, 02:39:23 PMQuote from: SecondClass on June 07, 2016, 02:33:57 PMEquality is more important than having a good military.WEWEWFar, far more important. A country isn't worth defending if the country doesn't give a shit about basic human rights.And then our shitty military loses and we're under the control of an enemy who cares even less about "basic human rights."
Quote from: challengerX on June 07, 2016, 02:39:23 PMQuote from: SecondClass on June 07, 2016, 02:33:57 PMEquality is more important than having a good military.WEWEWFar, far more important. A country isn't worth defending if the country doesn't give a shit about basic human rights.
Quote from: SecondClass on June 07, 2016, 02:33:57 PMEquality is more important than having a good military.WEWEW
Equality is more important than having a good military.
Delusions of morality. Right and wrong are man-made concepts, not naturally-occurring ones.
Yeah I'm not going to talk about this with you. The amount of disrespect you have for our soldiers and fallen heroes is disgusting.
Quote from: SecondClass on June 07, 2016, 03:29:04 PMQuote from: challengerX on June 07, 2016, 03:15:47 PMYeah I'm not going to talk about this with you. The amount of disrespect you have for our soldiers and fallen heroes is disgusting."A man may die, nations may rise and fall, but an idea lives on."Pretty much all that needs to be said here. I have no disrespect for soldiers, but there will always be wars, and soldiers will always die. It all means nothing if they're not at least fighting for something good.It sure is easy to condemn soldiers to death from the safety of your home on the Internet.
Quote from: challengerX on June 07, 2016, 03:15:47 PMYeah I'm not going to talk about this with you. The amount of disrespect you have for our soldiers and fallen heroes is disgusting."A man may die, nations may rise and fall, but an idea lives on."Pretty much all that needs to be said here. I have no disrespect for soldiers, but there will always be wars, and soldiers will always die. It all means nothing if they're not at least fighting for something good.
A male will want to do what a male does with a female. A female in a team on the ground messes with unit cohesion and focus. A male will seek to protect a female even if it fucks the whole team over. These are basic primitive urges we cannot yet overcome. It has absolutely nothing to do with sexism.
Quote from: SecondClass on June 07, 2016, 03:38:12 PMQuote from: challengerX on June 07, 2016, 03:35:50 PMA male will want to do what a male does with a female. A female in a team on the ground messes with unit cohesion and focus. A male will seek to protect a female even if it fucks the whole team over. These are basic primitive urges we cannot yet overcome. It has absolutely nothing to do with sexism.This is fucking ridiculous. Only the most apish men lose their minds and everything they stand for when they see a woman. You don't speak for everyone. If you're going to put a woman, or biological urges (which, yes, you can easily overcome) over the mission, then you're a bad soldier. Promoting discrimination because of the mindset of bad soldiers is a crime.Just take a look at the Israeli army, which arguably has some very well trained soldiers.
Quote from: challengerX on June 07, 2016, 03:35:50 PMA male will want to do what a male does with a female. A female in a team on the ground messes with unit cohesion and focus. A male will seek to protect a female even if it fucks the whole team over. These are basic primitive urges we cannot yet overcome. It has absolutely nothing to do with sexism.This is fucking ridiculous. Only the most apish men lose their minds and everything they stand for when they see a woman. You don't speak for everyone. If you're going to put a woman, or biological urges (which, yes, you can easily overcome) over the mission, then you're a bad soldier. Promoting discrimination because of the mindset of bad soldiers is a crime.
Sorry, but the military is not going to deny exactly the type of fighting men they need so they can have women in combat roles
Quote from: SecondClass on June 07, 2016, 03:49:53 PMQuote from: challengerX on June 07, 2016, 03:47:55 PMSorry, but the military is not going to deny exactly the type of fighting men they need so they can have women in combat rolesExactly. That's the fucking problem.No, it isn't.
Quote from: challengerX on June 07, 2016, 03:47:55 PMSorry, but the military is not going to deny exactly the type of fighting men they need so they can have women in combat rolesExactly. That's the fucking problem.
Quote from: challengerX on June 07, 2016, 03:50:18 PMQuote from: SecondClass on June 07, 2016, 03:49:53 PMQuote from: challengerX on June 07, 2016, 03:47:55 PMSorry, but the military is not going to deny exactly the type of fighting men they need so they can have women in combat rolesExactly. That's the fucking problem.No, it isn't.Equality is far more important than having the most effective military we can possibly have.
Quote from: SecondClass on June 07, 2016, 03:54:04 PMQuote from: challengerX on June 07, 2016, 03:50:18 PMQuote from: SecondClass on June 07, 2016, 03:49:53 PMQuote from: challengerX on June 07, 2016, 03:47:55 PMSorry, but the military is not going to deny exactly the type of fighting men they need so they can have women in combat rolesExactly. That's the fucking problem.No, it isn't.Equality is far more important than having the most effective military we can possibly have.This IS satirical right?
You can't put aside biological urges.
Quote from: SecondClass on June 07, 2016, 03:54:04 PMYes, it is. When two values conflict with each other,How do they? The military is there to protect our sacred way of life. Quoteyou have to pick which one is more important. Equality is far more important than having the most effective military we can possibly have.No it isn't. Not only are you saying dead soldiers are irrelevant, you're confusing the fact that the military is the only reason we have the way of life we have. QuoteAnd like I just said, there are ways to foster unit cohesion while having women in combat roles.How?QuoteYour whole argument boils down to "right now, the men we're picking to be soliders are too childish and brutish to see women as equals who don't need protecting, so we need to have institutionalized discrimination to protect them." The people who are the problem.They do put it aside. Plenty of them put aside their racism and other prejudices. You can't put aside biological urges.
Yes, it is. When two values conflict with each other,
you have to pick which one is more important. Equality is far more important than having the most effective military we can possibly have.
And like I just said, there are ways to foster unit cohesion while having women in combat roles.
Your whole argument boils down to "right now, the men we're picking to be soliders are too childish and brutish to see women as equals who don't need protecting, so we need to have institutionalized discrimination to protect them." The people who are the problem.
You're right Class, fuck national security and stupid things like people's fucking lives. What REALLY matters is PR. Dosent matter if we are sending unprepared people to die in vein as long as we can flaunt some equality statistic that wont save anyone's life.
Quote from: Verbatim on June 07, 2016, 04:08:23 PMQuote from: challengerX on June 07, 2016, 04:05:53 PMYou can't put aside biological urges.sure you can, just takes disciplineThu urge to protect a woman as a man, or to mother a child as a woman can't be put aside.
Quote from: challengerX on June 07, 2016, 04:05:53 PMYou can't put aside biological urges.sure you can, just takes discipline
Inequality
