Indiana Law: Business Owners Can Refuse Service to Anyone

Fiery Passion · March 29, 2015, 06:37:59 AM

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Flee · March 29, 2015, 07:15:10 AM

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BrenMan 94 · March 29, 2015, 07:16:24 AM

Many other states have this kind of law. The difference is that most of those states offer the same protection to homosexuals as they do minorities.

You all can probably guess my stance on this.

Fiery Passion · March 29, 2015, 07:19:48 AM

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Mordo · March 29, 2015, 07:21:18 AM

So? These businesses are only doing a disservice to themselves. Let them discriminate any kind of demographic they want and witness their business spectacularly flop. That's the beauty of the free market. It punishes those who are selective of their consumers.

Fiery Passion · March 29, 2015, 07:24:24 AM

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Isara · March 29, 2015, 07:29:09 AM

I think it's fair if you don't want to provide a service to someone. The businesses that are doing this recklessly or too often will be the ones to go south or have small amounts of income.

ΚΑΤΑΝΑΛΩΤΗΣ · March 29, 2015, 10:37:15 AM

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Sandtrap · March 29, 2015, 12:04:17 PM

Oh. I'm surprised places in the states wouldn't have that law already. If I wanted to, I could wake up in the morning and bar every single person who walked into my cafe with no reasons given.

It's not a bad law. It's just that some people would be assholes about it.

Turkey · March 29, 2015, 01:05:15 PM

Let them refuse service. People have a right to publicly defame them, as is happening now, and drive them out of business. At the end of the day, though, I would feel very uncomfortable as a customer asking a businessman to do something that conflicted with their moral or religious convictions. It's not intolerant for Muslim-owned restaurants to not serve pork, so in this ever-present example of a bakery not making wedding cakes for gay couples, I don't see why they have an obligation to provide a service they don't want to provide.

More Than Mortal · March 29, 2015, 01:08:40 PM

Good.

Nobody likes bigotry. Which is why consumers should take some fucking responsibility in dealing with it. No private citizen is obligated to serve anybody anything. A business owner should be allowed to turn me away simply because I have Rosacea, no matter how much it pisses me off.

Raw Sugar · March 29, 2015, 01:20:05 PM

How would a business owner know if someone was gay? Like unless they told him, he'd have no clue.

More Than Mortal · March 29, 2015, 01:20:44 PM

Quote from: Raw Sugar on March 29, 2015, 01:20:05 PM

How would a business owner know if someone was gay? Like unless they told him, he'd have no clue.

They give off a scent. If you can't smell it, it means you're a faggot too.

Raw Sugar · March 29, 2015, 01:23:30 PM

Quote from: Meta Cognition on March 29, 2015, 01:20:44 PM

Quote from: Raw Sugar on March 29, 2015, 01:20:05 PM
How would a business owner know if someone was gay? Like unless they told him, he'd have no clue.
They give off a scent. If you can't smell it, it means you're a faggot too.

i already knew I'm a fgt. I just wasn't aware of how other people found out.

Flee · March 29, 2015, 01:33:30 PM

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More Than Mortal · March 29, 2015, 01:35:06 PM

Quote from: Flee on March 29, 2015, 01:33:30 PM

That's a really poor analogy though. A better one would be for the Muslim-owned restaurant choosing not to serve anything to Christians and deny them service for the sole reason that the Christians follow a different religion.

Which is honestly fine. It's bigoted, it's immoral sure. But it's fundamentally no different--from the perspectives involved--of a Jew declining to serve a neo-Nazi.

Turkey · March 29, 2015, 01:36:10 PM

Quote from: Flee on March 29, 2015, 01:33:30 PM

Quote from: HurtfulTurkey on March 29, 2015, 01:05:15 PM
It's not intolerant for Muslim-owned restaurants to not serve pork, so in this ever-present example of a bakery not making wedding cakes for gay couples, I don't see why they have an obligation to provide a service they don't want to provide.
That's a really poor analogy though. A better one would be for the Muslim-owned restaurant choosing not to serve anything to Christians and deny them service for the sole reason that the Christians follow a different religion.

It's not about refusing service because they're gay (or Christian), it's about refusing to perform services which directly conflict with personal beliefs. In this case, they don't support gay marriage, so they refuse to make a cake for one. If a gay couple walked in and asked for a birthday cake, it wouldn't be an issue. In the Muslim example, it would be like refusing to cater a Catholic Confirmation or something like that.

This kind of highlights the problem. Conservatives defend it because they recognize that it's not about discriminating against gay people, it's about not being compelled to participate in actions that conflict with their convictions. On the other side, Liberals can't recognize this and assume it's all about hating gays.

More Than Mortal · March 29, 2015, 01:39:55 PM

Quote from: HurtfulTurkey on March 29, 2015, 01:36:10 PM

This kind of highlights the problem. Conservatives defend it because they recognize that it's not about discriminating against gay people, it's about not being compelled to participate in actions that conflict with their convictions. On the other side, Liberals can't recognize this and assume it's all about hating gays.

For the love of God, this.

Freedom is more important than somebody's feelings. And the same is true of private service and the they choose to refuse.

Flee · March 29, 2015, 01:50:57 PM

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Mega Sceptile · March 29, 2015, 03:40:21 PM

good, this should honestly be law everywhere. fuck your feelings, if I feel uncomfortable serving you I should have the right to refuse to serve you no matter your religion, sexuality, or favourite colour.

Mad Max · March 29, 2015, 05:01:31 PM

Genuine question:

I know the Bible says gays aren't cool. But what exactly is the religious belief where you're not allowed to serve/interact/share a community with gays?

Mad Max · March 29, 2015, 05:02:02 PM

Quote from: Mega Sceptile on March 29, 2015, 03:40:21 PM

good, this should honestly be law everywhere. fuck your feelings, if I feel uncomfortable serving you I should have the right to refuse to serve you no matter your religion, sexuality, or favourite colour.

We already tried that, and that's why we have the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

More Than Mortal · March 29, 2015, 05:07:17 PM

Quote from: Mad Max on March 29, 2015, 05:01:31 PM

But what exactly is the religious belief where you're not allowed to serve/interact/share a community with gays?

There isn't one, explicitly.

But I guess it's a mild form of betrayal to a Christian if he were to service people he views as sinful.

Turkey · March 29, 2015, 05:07:39 PM

Quote from: Mad Max on March 29, 2015, 05:01:31 PM

Genuine question:

I know the Bible says gays aren't cool. But what exactly is the religious belief where you're not allowed to serve/interact/share a community with gays?

There isn't one. Like I said earlier in the thread, it's not about not wanting to serve gay people, it's about not wanting to participate in activities which are contrary to one's convictions. A religious person may not support gay marriage, so they don't want to contribute to one, hence the disparity between a birthday cake and a wedding cake; they would make the former, but not the latter. Another example would be a liberal-leaning business refusing to cater for a conservative rally or meeting.

More Than Mortal · March 29, 2015, 05:07:57 PM

Quote from: Mad Max on March 29, 2015, 05:02:02 PM

Quote from: Mega Sceptile on March 29, 2015, 03:40:21 PM
good, this should honestly be law everywhere. fuck your feelings, if I feel uncomfortable serving you I should have the right to refuse to serve you no matter your religion, sexuality, or favourite colour.
We already tried that, and that's why we have the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

No, we have the Civil Rights Act as a correction to decades of governmentally enforced racism and segregation.

Not Comms Officer · March 29, 2015, 05:15:28 PM

I have no goddamn clue why so many people are actually supporting this shitty-ass law. You know how easy it is to just use this as an excuse to disallow gays or minorities into your establishments, right?

Mattie G Indahouse · March 29, 2015, 05:15:56 PM

Quote from: Raw Sugar on March 29, 2015, 01:20:05 PM

How would a business owner know if someone was gay? Like unless they told him, he'd have no clue.

You can tell.

More Than Mortal · March 29, 2015, 05:17:01 PM

Quote from: GethKhilafah on March 29, 2015, 05:15:28 PM

You know how easy it is to just use this as an excuse to disallow gays or minorities into your establishments, right?

So?

If you don't like it, be a responsible consumer and boycott the business.

Not Comms Officer · March 29, 2015, 05:22:29 PM

Quote from: Meta Cognition on March 29, 2015, 05:17:01 PM

Quote from: GethKhilafah on March 29, 2015, 05:15:28 PM
You know how easy it is to just use this as an excuse to disallow gays or minorities into your establishments, right?
So?

If you don't like it, be a responsible consumer and boycott the business.

Yeah, no. That's not gonna fly by me.

Governments should be more responsible and make it so you can't allow crap like this.

Mad Max · March 29, 2015, 05:30:57 PM

Quote from: Meta Cognition on March 29, 2015, 05:17:01 PM

Quote from: GethKhilafah on March 29, 2015, 05:15:28 PM
You know how easy it is to just use this as an excuse to disallow gays or minorities into your establishments, right?
So?

If you don't like it, be a responsible consumer and boycott the business.

That may not be an option. May communities are staunchly anti-LGBT and citizens may have to go miles and miles out of their way to find a business that they are comfortable doing business with.