In light of the Protestant Reformation's anniversary...

 
Snake πŸ™
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...it might be kind of fun to have a discussion on it. Having recently dabbled a little into Christianity's history I've acquired somewhat of a taste for its historical significance, even if I don't really care for the teachings all that much.

Where do you stand on the issue? Do you think Luther had the right idea branching off from the Catholic church following his excommunication, or do you think he should have stuck with the church to minimise the division within the faith?

For me, Luther's heart was in the right place but he set a bad precedent for the religion itself. After 1500 years of consistency and unity, tradition was thrown out the window and it's only snowballed since. Any time a church disagrees on one issue or another they break off to form their own denomination with little consequence. Additionally I think the focus on gracious works the Catholic church has is absolutely necessary to encourage a Christian lifestyle.


 
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From where I'm sitting the more broken up and delegitimized a religion is, the better.

But, I think you're right. There are so many denominations of Christianity these days that the religion has very much deteriorated. Of course you can't just attribute it to that one man, but I'd say it was a turning point in history leading to the degradation of Christianity.


 
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Yeah, 1500 years of a tradition of consistent corruption and organized criminality dethroned in the blink of an eye. Awful man, that Luther.


Genghis Khan | Heroic Posting Rampage
 
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Luther was their Alex Jones of their time. The dark ages really were shitty times and will return if we don't get our sovereignty back.


 
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Luther was their Alex Jones of their time. The dark ages really were shitty times and will return if we don't get our sovereignty back.

Luther didn't live during the dark ages.


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Regarding the Salvation by Faith alone thing that Luther advocated, I see no issue there. It comes down to semantics, really. Christ said that Faith without works is dead. Luther surmised that true faith by definition includes good works. So basically both the Catholic Church and Luther believed that the Christian faith involves good works.

I really do lament how the faith has become fractured, but I would not place the blame on him. Luther didn't want to separate from the Church at first. He submitted his 95 Theses for debate, and then the Church said no, excommunicated him, and tried to get him burned at the stake. He didn't really have a choice as events progressed.

Mind you, this is from somebody considering conversion to Catholicism.

Luther was their Alex Jones of their time. The dark ages really were shitty times and will return if we don't get our sovereignty back.

Luther lived long after the "dark ages", and even if one perceives them as "dark" they weren't that way because of the Church.
Last Edit: November 04, 2017, 04:20:21 AM by Mmmmm Napalm


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Yeah, 1500 years of a tradition of consistent corruption and organized criminality dethroned in the blink of an eye. Awful man, that Luther.

No one is arguing that Luther wasn't a good dude.


 
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Regarding the Salvation by Faith alone thing that Luther advocated, I see no issue there. It comes down to semantics, really. Christ said that Faith without works is dead. Luther surmised that true faith by definition includes good works. So basically both the Catholic Church and Luther believed that the Christian faith involves good works.

In an idealistic sense I understand the idea behind dead faith without works. But human beings are sinful by nature so the Catholic idea of works being necessary is, well, a necessary evil, if you ask me.

Quote
I really do lament how the faith has become fractured, but I would not place the blame on him. Luther didn't want to separate from the Church at first. He submitted his 95 Theses for debate, and then the Church said no, excommunicated him, and tried to get him burned at the stake. He didn't really have a choice as events progressed.

Pope Leo is the one at fault for sure, but his problems with the Church could have been handled in a much less provacative way. Considering the support he garned after the excommunication, I'd say there was more than enough discontent within the Church to have proceeded in a way that didn't have them splintering the largest religion in the world.
Last Edit: November 04, 2017, 04:34:57 PM by Snake


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Regarding the Salvation by Faith alone thing that Luther advocated, I see no issue there. It comes down to semantics, really. Christ said that Faith without works is dead. Luther surmised that true faith by definition includes good works. So basically both the Catholic Church and Luther believed that the Christian faith involves good works.

In an idealistic sense I understand the idea behind dead faith without works. But human beings are sinful by nature so the Catholic idea of works being necessary is, well, a necessary evil, if you ask me.

Quote
I really do lament how the faith has become fractured, but I would not place the blame on him. Luther didn't want to separate from the Church at first. He submitted his 95 Theses for debate, and then the Church said no, excommunicated him, and tried to get him burned at the stake. He didn't really have a choice as events progressed.

Pope Leo is the one at fault for sure, but his problems with the Church could have been handled in a much less public way. Considering the support he garned after the excommunication, I'd say there was more than enough discontent within the Church to have proceeded in a way that didn't have them splintering the largest religion in the world.

That's fair.


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Reminder the Catholic Church is inherently globalistic and anti-libertarian. There's an actual reason that early Americans distrusted it rather than muh WASPs.


 
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Reminder the Catholic Church is inherently globalistic and anti-libertarian. There's an actual reason that early Americans distrusted it rather than muh WASPs.
I don't know what's worse, the fact that you think "globalistic" is a word or that you're unironically a libertarian.


Mmmmm Napalm | Legendary Invincible!
 
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Reminder the Catholic Church is inherently globalistic and anti-libertarian. There's an actual reason that early Americans distrusted it rather than muh WASPs.

Okay, but the Catholic Church is not a governmental entity; it is a religious institution.

I am wary of supranational governmental entities too, but there's a difference between a Church that exists across national boundaries, a something like the EU.

Now, this isn't to say that the Catholic Church hasn't ever been power hungry or seen itself as a sort of government entity. Before, during, and beyond Luther's time it most certainly has. However, as it exists within the contemporary world, this is not the case.

At a certain point wariness of "globalism" becomes a fear of anythung that unites people across cultures.


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EU is going back to the the dark age. It won't be long when dissidents are sent to camps and tyranny takes over.