unfortunately we're probably several billion years off from reaching our evolutionary height.
Quote from: Ender on January 29, 2016, 09:59:46 AMSo you want pain to not exist? Pain is a good thing, it tells you when you're fucked.That's the problem, though. The game itself is designed poorly. You can argue that pain is a good thing, because it's our bodies' way of telling us that we're in danger, but that's the thing--the fact that danger exists at all in the first place is the problem.Besides, if I have a broken leg, I'm going to be on the ground in agonizing pain until somebody finds me. What I should be able to do is tell my body, "Yeah, okay, I get it--my leg is broken, and I can't use it. Stop telling me."Then I could probably move to someplace where I could get some help, instead of waiting for somebody to find me, because I'm too weak to move/am in complete shock.But we can't do that, so the way I see it, pain is poorly designed. But the fact that it's even possible to get hurt in this universe is an even bigger flaw in itself.QuoteWithout any sense of feeling humans might as well not exist, because there's no incentive to have anything done if you're just a sack of meat.Agreed. That's why I want all life to cease to exist, because the ultimate goal of sentient life (a perfect utopia where there is no pain, suffering, conflict, or discomfort) is not only completely impossible--it would also render life completely pointless.So that's my philosophy--we'd be better off not existing. You don't have to agree with me, but that's how I see it.Why waste the effort of achieving a utopia when the utopia is just one global extinction away?
So you want pain to not exist? Pain is a good thing, it tells you when you're fucked.
Without any sense of feeling humans might as well not exist, because there's no incentive to have anything done if you're just a sack of meat.
too bad no one wants to go extinct
Quote from: Sandtrap on January 29, 2016, 10:52:20 AMunfortunately we're probably several billion years off from reaching our evolutionary height.We could achieve it within the next century if everyone stopped reproducing.Nothingness is indistinguishable from total utopic perfection.
I don't buy the nothingness card though. And I sure as hell don't buy the perfection card either.We could probably and potentially do a lot of things in the next century if we put our heads in the game. But that's not the way the game works, sadly. Or at least, silly old people.
Whenever I make arguments about how reality should be, people are always like, "Well, maybe that's how reality should be--but it's never going to happen, so arguing about it is pointless. We have to play with the hand we're dealt."But see, no you don't. The whole point of my philosophy is to reject the game. There is nothing out there obliging us to continue playing such a poorly-designed game, and there is no valid justification for continuing it, beyond your piddly psychological and egocentric desires."I think life is cool. I'm glad I was born."I'm glad I was circumcised--but I'm sure you wouldn't tell me that circumcision is okay.If the game doesn't work, and there is no way to improve it, you stop playing the game. And you stop playing the game by ceasing to reproduce for the rest of time. It's not nearly as scary as it sounds--in fact, it's the best thing ever.
so, killing yourself...?
Quote from: Ender on January 29, 2016, 11:04:07 AMso, killing yourself...?No. Refusing to reproduce, thereby ending the perpetuation of meaningless suffering for the rest of time.Nobody has to commit suicide.
well it'd be hard to convince everyone to stop having sex, so.....
Quote from: Ender on January 29, 2016, 11:08:06 AMwell it'd be hard to convince everyone to stop having sex, so.....You wouldn't even have to stop having sex--you can have all the sex you want.Just, you know, don't ever get pregnant. Use protection. Have abortions.If you really want to have a kid, you could always adopt.
Quote from: Sandtrap on January 29, 2016, 11:02:06 AMI don't buy the nothingness card though. And I sure as hell don't buy the perfection card either.We could probably and potentially do a lot of things in the next century if we put our heads in the game. But that's not the way the game works, sadly. Or at least, silly old people.Which is precisely why we should die, you see? It's not worth the effort. It just isn't.I don't know what you mean by "I don't buy the nothingness card." You think there's an afterlife?The fact that there is no "perfection card" is part of the whole problem.
Well I'm not sure if this is true, but I heard condoms break or something sometimes? Probably not true though.Pills don't usually work.You'd prolly have to convince everyone to become infertile for maximum efficiency.Not everyone is happy to have an abortion.People usually want kids of their own over adopted kids.
Quote from: Ender on January 29, 2016, 11:12:33 AMWell I'm not sure if this is true, but I heard condoms break or something sometimes? Probably not true though.Pills don't usually work.You'd prolly have to convince everyone to become infertile for maximum efficiency.Not everyone is happy to have an abortion.People usually want kids of their own over adopted kids.Yeah, condoms can definitely break, if you're, uh, really getting into it. No form of contraception is 100% efficient, except (obviously) abstinence and abortions. That's why most responsible people use combinations--but nothing is guaranteed, which is why it's very important that people must be okay with abortion.Not everyone's happy to have an abortion, sure, but people are growing more and more comfortable with it as time goes on. There might come a day when every woman is willing to get one, who knows. But by the time that happens, we might come up with even better forms of contraception.We also have vasectomies and tubectomies, remember. If you don't know, vasectomies are when you physically cut off the vas deferens, preventing sperm from flowing out (there's still semen--it just doesn't contain any sperm). I'm sure you've at least heard of tubectomies--that's when you get your "tubes tied," or your fallopian tubes removed.So those are options. But yeah, the more we educate people, I think, the more comfortable they will be with things like abortion, adoption, and alternative forms of contraception. Just because people think one way today, doesn't mean they'll be thinking the same way in the future.
My cousin's wife got her tubes tied and I have another cousin that got a vasectomy when he was drunk somewhere in the middle east.
Quote from: Ender on January 29, 2016, 11:27:57 AMMy cousin's wife got her tubes tied and I have another cousin that got a vasectomy when he was drunk somewhere in the middle east.I see. That's... not something you read every day.But yeah, I just hope you see where I'm coming from now. I don't at all expect you to agree with me (I'd be kinda worried if you did, to be honest), but as long as you understand my perspective better, that's what's important to me.If nothing else, it's something to think about, I'd hope.
Which is precisely why we should die, you see? It's not worth the effort. It just isn't.
And, when you think about it, technically we all die anyway. It's not something you can really avoid. I can't refute that and say "oh geez we shouldn't die" because it is going to happen at some point anyway. If you don't die of old age it might be through some outside factor.And regardless of small time factors like diseases and shit, one day a giant rock might put the slam dunk on our planet. Our sun will expand eventually. It might shoot out a burst of radiation our magnetic field and various protective layers can't handle. You name it. It'll happen some day. Which essentially makes your belief just a shortcut really.
Quote from: Sandtrap on January 29, 2016, 11:36:37 AMAnd, when you think about it, technically we all die anyway. It's not something you can really avoid. I can't refute that and say "oh geez we shouldn't die" because it is going to happen at some point anyway. If you don't die of old age it might be through some outside factor.And regardless of small time factors like diseases and shit, one day a giant rock might put the slam dunk on our planet. Our sun will expand eventually. It might shoot out a burst of radiation our magnetic field and various protective layers can't handle. You name it. It'll happen some day. Which essentially makes your belief just a shortcut really.That's true, but I wouldn't really call that a "shortcut," necessarily. If everyone on the planet became an anti-natalist today, we would be extinct by the year 2150~, give or take a couple decades. So, a century and a half.We have the predictive capabilities of gauging not only an asteroid's size, but when it will hit us, where it will hit us, and if it will cause any significant damage. The chances of an asteroid destroying the world? I mean, it's... astronomical. There's so many variables, and it's safe to say that we're never gonna be in any imminent danger.The sun, on the other hand, won't be due for expansion for another five b-b-b-BILLION years.So yeah, sure, there's many apocalyptic scenarios that we could endure, but the fastest, most ethical, and most peaceful way to go out (that I can think of) would most certainly be in the form of anti-natalism.
Quote from: Fuddy Duddy II on January 29, 2016, 11:51:38 AMQuote from: Sandtrap on January 29, 2016, 11:36:37 AMAnd, when you think about it, technically we all die anyway. It's not something you can really avoid. I can't refute that and say "oh geez we shouldn't die" because it is going to happen at some point anyway. If you don't die of old age it might be through some outside factor.And regardless of small time factors like diseases and shit, one day a giant rock might put the slam dunk on our planet. Our sun will expand eventually. It might shoot out a burst of radiation our magnetic field and various protective layers can't handle. You name it. It'll happen some day. Which essentially makes your belief just a shortcut really.That's true, but I wouldn't really call that a "shortcut," necessarily. If everyone on the planet became an anti-natalist today, we would be extinct by the year 2150~, give or take a couple decades. So, a century and a half.We have the predictive capabilities of gauging not only an asteroid's size, but when it will hit us, where it will hit us, and if it will cause any significant damage. The chances of an asteroid destroying the world? I mean, it's... astronomical. There's so many variables, and it's safe to say that we're never gonna be in any imminent danger.The sun, on the other hand, won't be due for expansion for another five b-b-b-BILLION years.So yeah, sure, there's many apocalyptic scenarios that we could endure, but the fastest, most ethical, and most peaceful way to go out (that I can think of) would most certainly be in the form of anti-natalism.If a decent sized astroid hit the earth it would do pretty big damage, especially if it hit the water.
[snip]What feasible difference would the supposed suffering of everything else make to you if you suddenly died right now? Nothing. And it wouldn't make a difference to you either if everybody else keeled over. One way or another you end up at the same conclusion no matter what happens. Pointless suffering of everything? Who gives a shit? You're dead now. You played your hand and that was that. You don't need to care since you're dead now and you don't exist.So, rather than a movement, I think your ideology would be better suited for individuals who make the choice themselves, since if we're talking about death, everybody arrives at the same stop no matter what happens. Sooner, or later, it actually really doesn't matter.Let the folks who feel like rolling in the mud roll in the mud. And the folks who don't want to roll around in the mud? If we lived in a society with less restrictions and a little provided assistance, then they would have that option to consider in a cleaner sense.
I bet Verbatim played Mass Effect rooting for the Reapers.
People usually want kids of their own over adopted kids.
Which is one of the most ape-ass, selfish desires out there. The legit reason to not want to adopt is because the adoption process right now is cumbersome and takes forever. "muh genes" is grounds for not letting someone pass their genes IMO. I know you weren't saying that's what you felt but guh this one fucking infuriates me.
hey verb-atim do you like anime?
"Like father like son"Personally speaking, I would prefer to raise my own offspring over another, simply because there is good possibility my offspring's behavior is something akin to either me or my partner (or both) thus making how to approach raising them slightly easier. While there is a good possibility the child could be something completely different from the two of us, it's not as big of a gamble as adopting a child. The other reason is as you stated, the process is very tedious. Screening the potential parents has a variety of problems and basically expects all parents to create the perfect child. News flash: That is not the reality, while parenting you WILL fuck up in some instances, that's an unavoidable fact, but it's all about reducing those mistakes and the ones your parents may have made when we we're raised. This fact however, is one child services doesn't believe in. Quote from: eggsalad on January 29, 2016, 02:50:36 PMWhich is one of the most ape-ass, selfish desires out there. The legit reason to not want to adopt is because the adoption process right now is cumbersome and takes forever. "muh genes" is grounds for not letting someone pass their genes IMO. I know you weren't saying that's what you felt but guh this one fucking infuriates me.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedonic_treadmillImpossible.
Just Verb Things (my philosophies)
