I hope you guys aren't actually voting for Bernie "reddit" Sanders

Deleted · October 01, 2015, 09:51:27 PM

I think to get closer to verbs ideal society we'd have to change the way the school system and jobs work at a pretty dramatic way that it would be almost unrecognizable to us since it's goal would just be to keep itself stable and everyone happy rather than for the society to be driven by everyone's goal to get rich. "The concept of employers would change because the concept of Trickle down Economics" would be gone with capitalism.

The one problem I see (Other than getting people to the point where that society would function) is being able to entice enough people into roles that would support the infrastructure ( like Farming, and Sanitation and Engineering and other "Dirty" and niche jobs that keep everything running)

Would enough people be willing to happily work those jobs in a society where you have no money and are able to take on any profession you want? Maybe you could mandate everyone to share that kind of work, like every citizen having a certain amount of service per month they'd have to put in.

And how do you plan on making dealings with other countries, especial in terms of millitary, and trade?

cxfhvxgkcf-56:7 · October 01, 2015, 09:51:41 PM

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DAS B00T x2 · October 01, 2015, 09:52:25 PM

Quote from: Fuddy-duddy on October 01, 2015, 09:32:42 PM

Quote from: SoporificSlash on October 01, 2015, 09:30:18 PM
Quote from: Sly Instinct on October 01, 2015, 09:28:55 PM
Devise a test to measure their capabilities.
Have them temporarily work for free to see who performs the best.
you do realize how inefficient of a system that is right?
Apparently not, because it sounds like a kick-ass system to me.

At the end of the day, I'd pick somebody. Chances are, there's no wrong choice, because they all have degrees.
It doesn't really matter who I pick, does it?

Yes, for the love of god, it matters a fucking lot.
I work with officers and pilots, verb. Degrees are meaningless when it comes to real qualities of a good employee.

cxfhvxgkcf-56:7 · October 01, 2015, 09:54:50 PM

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Verbatim · October 01, 2015, 09:58:46 PM

Quote from: SoporificSlash on October 01, 2015, 09:51:41 PM

sure you can't put those things on a resume but once your employer figures out you don't posses those qualities you won't have that job for much longer

Great--that doesn't solve the problem of not being able to get the job in the first place, regardless of how much of a swell guy you are. If you have an empty résumé, you're not getting a job.

Quote

and not how it will work for a good long while.

Unless we vote for it.

I refuse to live in a society where people just get lucky, and some people are "fucked."
And that's what you support.

cxfhvxgkcf-56:7 · October 01, 2015, 10:01:31 PM

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Alternative Facts · October 01, 2015, 10:02:10 PM

Quote from: Fuddy-duddy on October 01, 2015, 09:58:46 PM

Unless we vote for it.

I refuse to live in a society where people just get lucky, and some people are "fucked."
And that's what you support.

Unfortunately, solely voting Sanders into office will accomplish next to nothing of his proposals - he'd also need a sizeable liberal Democratic majority in the House (60-100 additional seats) and Senate (10-15) - along with an additional liberal juror on the Supreme Court.

Verbatim · October 01, 2015, 10:04:12 PM

Quote from: DAS r00d d00d B00T on October 01, 2015, 09:52:25 PM

Yes, for the love of god, it matters a fucking lot.
I work with officers and pilots, verb. Degrees are meaningless when it comes to real qualities of a good employee.

It almost sounds to me like libertarians want to just abolish higher education or some shit. I don't really understand where this attitude comes from.

I'm not saying that having a degree means you're automatically qualified for whatever job you want in that field. I'm just saying--it's the best thing we have to go off of for the majority of occupations. It's like age limits--we all think they're stupid, because age is a poor indicator of maturity--but we have to have them in place. What else is there?

Verbatim · October 01, 2015, 10:09:28 PM

Quote from: spewky bewgie on October 01, 2015, 10:02:10 PM

Unfortunately, solely voting Sanders into office will accomplish next to nothing of his proposals - he'd also need a sizeable liberal Democratic majority in the House (60-100 additional seats) and Senate (10-15) - along with an additional liberal juror on the Supreme Court.

I wasn't trying to imply that. Just that he appears to be the most expedient option to what I want to see happen in this country.

Verbatim · October 01, 2015, 10:12:54 PM

You can piss on socialism all you want--there's no way you can make capitalism look appealing.

cxfhvxgkcf-56:7 · October 01, 2015, 10:13:43 PM

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Alternative Facts · October 01, 2015, 10:15:15 PM

Quote from: SoporificSlash on October 01, 2015, 10:13:43 PM

Quote from: Fuddy-duddy on October 01, 2015, 10:12:54 PM
You can piss on socialism all you want--there's no way you can make capitalism look appealing.
to you maybe

making people dependent on the state is disgusting and cruel in its own way

Offering a state-provided safety net is preferable to saying "Sorry the system is broken, but nothing we can do. Enjoy the cardboard box"

cxfhvxgkcf-56:7 · October 01, 2015, 10:16:58 PM

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Alternative Facts · October 01, 2015, 10:18:32 PM

Quote from: SoporificSlash on October 01, 2015, 10:16:58 PM

Quote from: spewky bewgie on October 01, 2015, 10:15:15 PM
Quote from: SoporificSlash on October 01, 2015, 10:13:43 PM
Quote from: Fuddy-duddy on October 01, 2015, 10:12:54 PM
You can piss on socialism all you want--there's no way you can make capitalism look appealing.
to you maybe

making people dependent on the state is disgusting and cruel in its own way

Offering a state-provided safety net is preferable to saying "Sorry the system is broken, but nothing we can do. Enjoy the cardboard box"
and that's how it should be, nothing broken about it

Requiring people, especially the lowest income class, to go into insurmountable debt to try and improve their life and not assist them when, surprise!, they can't pay it back?

If you can't see the moral wrong in that, you need to rethink things.

Septy · October 01, 2015, 10:18:48 PM

Free college should be available to all. The notion that it will destroy the job market is absurd. There are lots of European countries that offer free countries and they are doing just fine. To deny people the right to pursue their dreams because you don't want to compete with them is disgusting.

cxfhvxgkcf-56:7 · October 01, 2015, 10:23:05 PM

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cxfhvxgkcf-56:7 · October 01, 2015, 10:24:43 PM

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Assassin 11D7 · October 01, 2015, 10:27:45 PM

Okay, why not allow free college, but make it so you need to pay for a degree?

aREALgod · October 01, 2015, 10:27:56 PM

Why make college free? It'd just inflate the job market with more "degree" filled entitled hippie brats who flip burgers but demand a higher wage at one of the easiest jobs anybody could ever acquire

Alternative Facts · October 01, 2015, 10:27:57 PM

Quote from: SoporificSlash on October 01, 2015, 10:23:05 PM

Quote from: spewky bewgie on October 01, 2015, 10:18:32 PM
Quote from: SoporificSlash on October 01, 2015, 10:16:58 PM
Quote from: spewky bewgie on October 01, 2015, 10:15:15 PM
Quote from: SoporificSlash on October 01, 2015, 10:13:43 PM
Quote from: Fuddy-duddy on October 01, 2015, 10:12:54 PM
You can piss on socialism all you want--there's no way you can make capitalism look appealing.
to you maybe

making people dependent on the state is disgusting and cruel in its own way

Offering a state-provided safety net is preferable to saying "Sorry the system is broken, but nothing we can do. Enjoy the cardboard box"
and that's how it should be, nothing broken about it

Requiring people, especially the lowest income class, to go into insurmountable debt to try and improve their life and not assist them when, surprise!, they can't pay it back?

If you can't see the moral wrong in that, you need to rethink things.
you don't need to go into monumental debt to get an education

we established this earlier in the thread

No - you established the point, and then ignored the response regarding many in the lowest income class being unable to afford a basic two year school - let alone a four year school with a more substantial degree.

Quote from: SoporificSlash on October 01, 2015, 10:23:05 PM

Now let me tell you why its morally wrong to make citizens dependent on the state. People simply get comfortable with their poverty. Its happening right now as we speak with the current welfare system. People aren't motivated to get out of their situation because why should they? The state is providing them with everything they need. Unless you make people uncomfortable with their situation they're never going to do anything about getting out of it. Its like never weening your child off the breast and then all of a sudden you end up with a 8 year old still breast-feeding.

In no way do I advocate for everything that Sanders wants - free childcare, free college (At least, not entirely), etc.

But what you advocate - for the state to simply say fuck it and ignore the needs of the people when the state is run by those people, is no better - and even worse. The more people that slump into poverty and don't have assistance to get out, the worse our economy gets - from rising student loan defaults, slumps in spending, etc.

The lowest of the low need help, whether or not you want to admit it. They need help to at least get a stable footing in a shitty system.

Septy · October 01, 2015, 10:29:30 PM

Quote from: SoporificSlash on October 01, 2015, 10:24:43 PM

Quote from: Septy on October 01, 2015, 10:18:48 PM
Free college should be available to all. The notion that it will destroy the job market is absurd. There are lots of European countries that offer free countries and they are doing just fine. To deny people the right to pursue their dreams because you don't want to compete with them is disgusting.
Yeah and a lot of graduates in those countries have to leave their country, and in most cases, come here to actually find a job. If you can't see the logic behind making something widely accessible deflating its value you are pretty fucking retarded.

When you have to resort to making up things to try and justify yourself then you need to just stop.

cxfhvxgkcf-56:7 · October 01, 2015, 10:34:10 PM

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cxfhvxgkcf-56:7 · October 01, 2015, 10:34:38 PM

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aREALgod · October 01, 2015, 10:37:15 PM

Quote from: Septy on October 01, 2015, 10:29:30 PM

Quote from: SoporificSlash on October 01, 2015, 10:24:43 PM
Quote from: Septy on October 01, 2015, 10:18:48 PM
Free college should be available to all. The notion that it will destroy the job market is absurd. There are lots of European countries that offer free countries and they are doing just fine. To deny people the right to pursue their dreams because you don't want to compete with them is disgusting.
Yeah and a lot of graduates in those countries have to leave their country, and in most cases, come here to actually find a job. If you can't see the logic behind making something widely accessible deflating its value you are pretty fucking retarded.
When you have to resort to making up things to try and justify yourself then you need to just stop.

Is that why we have so many Europoor immigrants flooding over here?

Alternative Facts · October 01, 2015, 10:41:04 PM

Quote from: aDUMBgenius on October 01, 2015, 10:37:15 PM

Quote from: Septy on October 01, 2015, 10:29:30 PM
Quote from: SoporificSlash on October 01, 2015, 10:24:43 PM
Quote from: Septy on October 01, 2015, 10:18:48 PM
Free college should be available to all. The notion that it will destroy the job market is absurd. There are lots of European countries that offer free countries and they are doing just fine. To deny people the right to pursue their dreams because you don't want to compete with them is disgusting.
Yeah and a lot of graduates in those countries have to leave their country, and in most cases, come here to actually find a job. If you can't see the logic behind making something widely accessible deflating its value you are pretty fucking retarded.
When you have to resort to making up things to try and justify yourself then you need to just stop.
Is that why we have so many Europoor immigrants flooding over here?

Uhh

Quote

In 2010, more than 4.8 million European immigrants resided in the United States, representing 12 percent of all immigrants.

About 44 percent of European immigrants were from Eastern Europe in 2010.
The top countries of origin for European immigrants were the United Kingdom, Germany, Poland, Russia, and Italy.

Aside from the UK and Germany, you have Poland, Russia, and Italy - three economy shitholes in their own right, and none of the countries offering state-funded universities.

Verbatim · October 01, 2015, 10:41:56 PM

Quote from: SoporificSlash on October 01, 2015, 10:34:38 PM

does supply and demand not exist?

No, it doesn't. Only under shithead capitalism does it exist. We just "agree" that it exists.

cxfhvxgkcf-56:7 · October 01, 2015, 10:42:28 PM

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aREALgod · October 01, 2015, 10:42:59 PM

Quote from: spewky bewgie on October 01, 2015, 10:41:04 PM

Quote from: aDUMBgenius on October 01, 2015, 10:37:15 PM
Quote from: Septy on October 01, 2015, 10:29:30 PM
Quote from: SoporificSlash on October 01, 2015, 10:24:43 PM
Quote from: Septy on October 01, 2015, 10:18:48 PM
Free college should be available to all. The notion that it will destroy the job market is absurd. There are lots of European countries that offer free countries and they are doing just fine. To deny people the right to pursue their dreams because you don't want to compete with them is disgusting.
Yeah and a lot of graduates in those countries have to leave their country, and in most cases, come here to actually find a job. If you can't see the logic behind making something widely accessible deflating its value you are pretty fucking retarded.
When you have to resort to making up things to try and justify yourself then you need to just stop.
Is that why we have so many Europoor immigrants flooding over here?

Uhh

Quote
In 2010, more than 4.8 million European immigrants resided in the United States, representing 12 percent of all immigrants.

About 44 percent of European immigrants were from Eastern Europe in 2010.
The top countries of origin for European immigrants were the United Kingdom, Germany, Poland, Russia, and Italy.

Aside from the UK and Germany, you have Poland, Russia, and Italy - three economy shitholes in their own right, and none of the countries offering state-funded universities.

That's a liberally-biased site, why should I believe those statistics?

Alternative Facts · October 01, 2015, 10:44:19 PM

Quote from: aDUMBgenius on October 01, 2015, 10:42:59 PM

Quote from: spewky bewgie on October 01, 2015, 10:41:04 PM
Quote from: aDUMBgenius on October 01, 2015, 10:37:15 PM
Quote from: Septy on October 01, 2015, 10:29:30 PM
Quote from: SoporificSlash on October 01, 2015, 10:24:43 PM
Quote from: Septy on October 01, 2015, 10:18:48 PM
Free college should be available to all. The notion that it will destroy the job market is absurd. There are lots of European countries that offer free countries and they are doing just fine. To deny people the right to pursue their dreams because you don't want to compete with them is disgusting.
Yeah and a lot of graduates in those countries have to leave their country, and in most cases, come here to actually find a job. If you can't see the logic behind making something widely accessible deflating its value you are pretty fucking retarded.
When you have to resort to making up things to try and justify yourself then you need to just stop.
Is that why we have so many Europoor immigrants flooding over here?

Uhh

Quote
In 2010, more than 4.8 million European immigrants resided in the United States, representing 12 percent of all immigrants.

About 44 percent of European immigrants were from Eastern Europe in 2010.
The top countries of origin for European immigrants were the United Kingdom, Germany, Poland, Russia, and Italy.

Aside from the UK and Germany, you have Poland, Russia, and Italy - three economy shitholes in their own right, and none of the countries offering state-funded universities.

That's a liberally-biased site, why should I believe those statistics?

I see when the stats don't go your way, we're still shouting about "liberal bias!"

Please, share your source of statistics regarding migration of population.

big sponge · October 01, 2015, 10:45:47 PM

Quote from: SoporificSlash on October 01, 2015, 09:01:12 PM

Quote from: LC on October 01, 2015, 08:54:40 PM
Quote from: SoporificSlash on October 01, 2015, 08:47:13 PM
Quote from: LC on October 01, 2015, 08:42:34 PM
Quote from: HEAT SEEKING GHOST OF SEX on October 01, 2015, 06:27:33 PM
Quote from: LC on October 01, 2015, 05:27:56 PM
Better than Carson, Trump, and Fiorina.
being smarter than a retard doesn't make you intelligent.

But it does make you better than your leading opposition.

In all likelihood we'll probably get a Clinton vs Bush scenario and political dynasties make me feel gross so I don't know what I'd do with that.
but bush is getting shit on

yeah though dynasties are gross

Not really, when you remove the three front runners that absolutely will not be getting the nomination due to their inability to appeal to anyone other than the base (dead in a general election) he's right behind Rubio. I personally think that the GOP is going to go with what they believe to be the safer pick and give Bush the nomination.
are you entirely sure the GOP wants to pick someone that appeals to anyone other than the base? I mean they did basically give Boehner the boot because he was actually willing to work with Dems. Yeah picking Rubio or Bush would be the smart and safe bet but I think you're giving the GOP too much credit. I see them going the dumb route and picking an extremist like Trump or Fiorina

You can't win a general election with an extremist like Trump or Fiorina. If the republican party wants to be a viable option in the bid for presidency Bush and Rubio are their only options right now really.

I think the GOP is at least smart enough to recognize this.