Quote from: Decimator Omega on March 21, 2015, 07:17:21 PM

Quote from: Sandtrap on March 21, 2015, 06:41:48 PM

There's something else important to talk about here. And it's best not to wait. Saying, "ho ho ho, pick up a phone if you feel like offing yourself" is easy to do.

Do you know how much effort it took for me to stop leaning over the rails? Even with the knowledge of what I was doing, and what it would cause, I had to fight not to let go. Because when you're essentially past the point of no return, very little can divert you.

Very little can motivate you, and everything around you de-motivates you. When I realized that if I jumped, that I'd be a selfish bastard, I didn't feel good. The only thing it made me do is to continue wanting to jump. That's what depression does at it's lowest point.

It reflects everything back at you.

And after I climbed down from the tower, it took me five days to open up to somebody. Five days of fighting with myself internally to do it.

The point is, when you can talk about how bad you're feeling, you aren't quite at the end of your rope yet. You could be close. But not quite past the point of almost no return. When you hit that point, you're not going to want to talk. You're not going to want to pick up a phone.

So that means we can talk a little bit about stalling things.

Depression, and the end result at its core, is caused by unhappiness. Even in bi-polar people. Even more so in bi-polar people because their emotions are intense. They can be fine, and then the next minute, down. Far, far down.

Unhappiness is caused by not being satisfied.

What causes not being satisfied?

Things not going your way. Stress. Stagnation.

Stagnation is the very root of unhappiness becase when something is stagnant, it is not changing. We as people, are naturally inclined to changes. A changing environment, a change of pace.

To give an example.

Part of the reason why I am so much of a mess right now, is because a huge part of my life is stagnant.

I've been cooped up into a house for roughly 5-6 months now. It's too cold outside to do anything, and I'm deprived of sunlight. My body, physically is degrading both because of winter effects of no activity, and the meds from the doc. And most importantly, I am trying to find somebody to call a friend in my vicinity.

It doesn't matter how capable I am of spending my time even if I enjoy it. The fact that I've been waking up every day to those 4 key things now for quite some time without having visible, forwards progress and only backwards, is leaving its mark on me.

So, essentially, what can potentially divert, and remove or subside depression is change.

Positive change.

It could be learning how to do something new that you enjoy. It can be traveling. It could be meeting new people you get along with.

But the key thing here is, and it's something that you have to take seriously because you have a rapidly closing window, is to pin down what you are unhappy about.

Pin down why you're dissatisfied with your life and what's in it. Find the thing that makes you unhappy, the thing that is staying negative, and then do your absolute best to reverse it.

Go to a concilor if you have to. They can help you with finding out why you're unhappy.

The problem with really finding out why you're unhappy revolves around your sub-conscious. And dealing with the sub-conscious parts of yourself are not easy to do because they're hidden.

Don't wait until you hit the point of no return. See that you're heading there and put your own brakes on first.

That is by far the best advice I have read so far. My life is currently stagnating, I feel like I'm never going to leave this city for good.

Then you have to change that and you have to find a way how. And that's not easy. Cities are designed to be traps. And here's why.

A city is so appealing to most, because of conveinence. You can find food, you can find shelter, you can find technology, and things that you enjoy like TV, easy access to water, power, food, internet. Cities are founded on the principle of ease of access.

But, in order to benifit from what you want in a city, you have to pay for it. So, in order to pay for it, you acquire a job. Which is another trap. Because you become dependant on the influx of money that the job is giving you, no matter how much, or how small.

And the bills, the costs for everything, are fine tuned well enough so that you have just barely enough to make it. Barely enough to pay for it. Now, cities aren't such a bad thing, if that's your thing. But the problem is always monetary. And that's how they trap people, because in order to function, a city needs people working.

It's a carefully executed bargain.

It's how much a person is willing to give up of their time, in order to have access to all the wonderful things they want. That's what money is, and that's what having a job is.

Now, some people save up. And they move to a new city. A fresh location. Some people get jobs that pay a lot in return for more of their time and focus, and then take vacations at the end of the year. Some people have a partner. Arguably a partner makes the world more tolerable.

But the real key here, is finding something you enjoy doing, and monetizing it.

Because personally, I don't wager you'd do well in an environment like mine.

And that's the truth. There's city life. And then there's small town/out in the boonies life.

Of course, there is the life of being rich. All doors become open to you the richer you are. But in order to be rich, you have to give a lot. Your time, your focus, your energy.

Your absolute best bet is one of two things.

Find a job that you like, in which case it is no longer a job but a hobby.

Or find a hobby that you can monetize.

The only actual way to beat the system at it's own game is to play a part of it. But do it smart. Don't aim for some shitty retail job and go hur dur money.

That's an empty life, and one of being illusioned. Find something you really enjoy, or you're really good at doing, and push it.

Or, pack your shit up and abandon it completely. Hitchhiking to a new place. But, that's not safe these days. The world's a lot meaner.

Basically, focus on what you enjoy. Find something you're good at. And then go for it.

To me, you seem like somebody who would fare better in a city.

But your life will change if you're doing something you enjoy and making money from it. And it'll change exceptionally so if you find a partner to share it with.

Well, suicide is for the weak after all

you just gotta soldier through it whenever you feel bad and down. if not for yourself do it for those that love you.

Well, suicide is for the weak after all

Quote from: Sandtrap on March 21, 2015, 07:42:18 PM

Quote from: Decimator Omega on March 21, 2015, 07:17:21 PM

Quote from: Sandtrap on March 21, 2015, 06:41:48 PM

There's something else important to talk about here. And it's best not to wait. Saying, "ho ho ho, pick up a phone if you feel like offing yourself" is easy to do.

Do you know how much effort it took for me to stop leaning over the rails? Even with the knowledge of what I was doing, and what it would cause, I had to fight not to let go. Because when you're essentially past the point of no return, very little can divert you.

Very little can motivate you, and everything around you de-motivates you. When I realized that if I jumped, that I'd be a selfish bastard, I didn't feel good. The only thing it made me do is to continue wanting to jump. That's what depression does at it's lowest point.

It reflects everything back at you.

And after I climbed down from the tower, it took me five days to open up to somebody. Five days of fighting with myself internally to do it.

The point is, when you can talk about how bad you're feeling, you aren't quite at the end of your rope yet. You could be close. But not quite past the point of almost no return. When you hit that point, you're not going to want to talk. You're not going to want to pick up a phone.

So that means we can talk a little bit about stalling things.

Depression, and the end result at its core, is caused by unhappiness. Even in bi-polar people. Even more so in bi-polar people because their emotions are intense. They can be fine, and then the next minute, down. Far, far down.

Unhappiness is caused by not being satisfied.

What causes not being satisfied?

Things not going your way. Stress. Stagnation.

Stagnation is the very root of unhappiness becase when something is stagnant, it is not changing. We as people, are naturally inclined to changes. A changing environment, a change of pace.

To give an example.

Part of the reason why I am so much of a mess right now, is because a huge part of my life is stagnant.

I've been cooped up into a house for roughly 5-6 months now. It's too cold outside to do anything, and I'm deprived of sunlight. My body, physically is degrading both because of winter effects of no activity, and the meds from the doc. And most importantly, I am trying to find somebody to call a friend in my vicinity.

It doesn't matter how capable I am of spending my time even if I enjoy it. The fact that I've been waking up every day to those 4 key things now for quite some time without having visible, forwards progress and only backwards, is leaving its mark on me.

So, essentially, what can potentially divert, and remove or subside depression is change.

Positive change.

It could be learning how to do something new that you enjoy. It can be traveling. It could be meeting new people you get along with.

But the key thing here is, and it's something that you have to take seriously because you have a rapidly closing window, is to pin down what you are unhappy about.

Pin down why you're dissatisfied with your life and what's in it. Find the thing that makes you unhappy, the thing that is staying negative, and then do your absolute best to reverse it.

Go to a concilor if you have to. They can help you with finding out why you're unhappy.

The problem with really finding out why you're unhappy revolves around your sub-conscious. And dealing with the sub-conscious parts of yourself are not easy to do because they're hidden.

Don't wait until you hit the point of no return. See that you're heading there and put your own brakes on first.

That is by far the best advice I have read so far. My life is currently stagnating, I feel like I'm never going to leave this city for good.

Then you have to change that and you have to find a way how. And that's not easy. Cities are designed to be traps. And here's why.

A city is so appealing to most, because of conveinence. You can find food, you can find shelter, you can find technology, and things that you enjoy like TV, easy access to water, power, food, internet. Cities are founded on the principle of ease of access.

But, in order to benifit from what you want in a city, you have to pay for it. So, in order to pay for it, you acquire a job. Which is another trap. Because you become dependant on the influx of money that the job is giving you, no matter how much, or how small.

And the bills, the costs for everything, are fine tuned well enough so that you have just barely enough to make it. Barely enough to pay for it. Now, cities aren't such a bad thing, if that's your thing. But the problem is always monetary. And that's how they trap people, because in order to function, a city needs people working.

It's a carefully executed bargain.

It's how much a person is willing to give up of their time, in order to have access to all the wonderful things they want. That's what money is, and that's what having a job is.

Now, some people save up. And they move to a new city. A fresh location. Some people get jobs that pay a lot in return for more of their time and focus, and then take vacations at the end of the year. Some people have a partner. Arguably a partner makes the world more tolerable.

But the real key here, is finding something you enjoy doing, and monetizing it.

Because personally, I don't wager you'd do well in an environment like mine.

And that's the truth. There's city life. And then there's small town/out in the boonies life.

Of course, there is the life of being rich. All doors become open to you the richer you are. But in order to be rich, you have to give a lot. Your time, your focus, your energy.

Your absolute best bet is one of two things.

Find a job that you like, in which case it is no longer a job but a hobby.

Or find a hobby that you can monetize.

The only actual way to beat the system at it's own game is to play a part of it. But do it smart. Don't aim for some shitty retail job and go hur dur money.

That's an empty life, and one of being illusioned. Find something you really enjoy, or you're really good at doing, and push it.

Or, pack your shit up and abandon it completely. Hitchhiking to a new place. But, that's not safe these days. The world's a lot meaner.

Basically, focus on what you enjoy. Find something you're good at. And then go for it.

To me, you seem like somebody who would fare better in a city.

But your life will change if you're doing something you enjoy and making money from it. And it'll change exceptionally so if you find a partner to share it with.

I see, and I know. I already found the love of my life. I just need to be with her.

Holy shit why do your posts have be THIS long?

I just don't even read them anymore. And it's a shame because you have shit to say, but fuck, man. They're too long.

Spoiler

Quote from: Sandtrap on March 23, 2015, 01:39:40 PM

Deci. Figure I should talk about more things here. But I'm going to break them down into segments for you as they show up for me. My head's delayed like that. Anywho.

Environmental stagnation.

Environmental stagnation is exactly what it sounds like. You grow tired of your environment around you. You grow fed up. Here's the important thing here Deci, to understand.

There is no avoiding environmental stagnation, unless you're a nomad. Unless, when you grow tired, you move. But here's why you can never outrun it.

You live in an urban area no doubt. Lots of people. City architecture. You're tired of it. I live in relative isolation. Small town life, a fundamental polar opposite to you.

And I'm just as tired of it.

So. Let's just say, that I packed my shit up. Let's say I rolled off down to my home province of birth, British Columbia, and started a new home there. What would I have?

When it was winter in Saskatchewan, there'd be flowers and green in BC. But there would be rain. Weeks and weeks of rainfall, grey skies. And it would be cold. BC has cold rainfall and damp weather because it's on the coastline. Spending even two weeks under nothing but cold rain every day, quickly evaporates your appreciation for the green and flowers.

Let's say I moved far down south. Somewhere warm and tropical in the states. While the radical climate change would be appealing, interesting, after a while, it would grow tiresome.

And now, we factor cities into things. Cities can accelerate environmental stagnation because cities are all founded on a singular, uniform basis. People, and money.

Every single city has a business center. Every city has suburbs, slums, shopping districts. The only mildly different variable are people. Culture, customs, ethinicity, and old architecture.

Compare my town, to another town here called Xenon. Xenon is a french community. Their buildings are completely different from the prarie buildings found here in my town and across the province.

One could say more enjoyable. Different. But if I lived there, eventually I would grow tired of it.

So, here's the point. No matter where you move, no matter where you go, environmental stagnation will eventually happen. Whether you live in a city, in a small town environment, or out in the woods.

So how do you deal with that?

Two things.

The first, is appreciation. Remember what you have. For example. My province is buried under ice and snow for about 6 months of the year. Our springs, and summers are incredibly short, and depending on the weather, usually rainy. Fall is the last warm period, before the climate goes truly ugly. I get incredibly down in Fall. And then winter rolls in.

This province is bare. It's been mowed down like a lawn for farmland. It's flat. And the people, most people, are stupid. Some tolerable, others not.

But what do I have? I'm 22. I have a base of income that I can always return to. The restaurant my mother owns, which I will inherit when she can't do it anymore.

I have the beginnings of a house, and land. And I live in close proximity to the only remaining family of mine that are alive.

And most of all, up here, nothing happens. There is no war. No high crime rates. Isolation. Peace and quiet. Compared to other parts of the planet, other parts of the world, even though it is challenging to live up here, and for 6-7 months of the year the environment is ugly, crushing, and depressing, in reality, all things considered, where I live is nice. And it, to some degree, is safe.

Count what you have around you, the good things.

And second. Focus.

A strong focus, a task to do will always help. Did you know, that actually, human beings for the most part are terrible at relaxing? If you drop us in a perfectly warm environment, nice and temperate, not too hot, not too cold, and give somebody a beach to rest on all day, every day they'll go fucking nuts.

Knock knock, our old partner stagnation again. He's got depression in the back seat too.

People are meant to move. They are supposed to move.

So when you have work, any kind of work. A task, something that needs to be done, or something you want to do, your head focuses on that task and the environment becomes a background.

As such, hobbies are an excellent focus. For me, my hobbies are helpful. But I need to work, physically, to move and think and occupy my hands to really not take notice of the ugly environment around me.

The more hobbies you have and take, and the more....little projects you start, the more you will focus away from your environment.

Raining outside? Snow and ice?

Work on making the floor of your house pretty, the way you want it to look. Sunny and dry outside? Cut and haul firewood. Paint your house.

Occupy yourself.

And third, which I didn't mention, is of course, a partner. Somebody close, or even just a friend in close proximity. Another head and person you enjoy your time around. Not only will their company put you at ease, but they'll do those little projects with you. Together.

So, key points here to fight environmental stagnation, since you can never outrun it.

Focus on what you have. The good that you have access to compared to others.
Focus on hobbies, or work. Little tasks to occupy your thoughts.
Do both of that with a friend or somebody more.

And, on last note.

There are three words that I'll come down to a lot.

Job.
Hobby.
Work.

All three of these words are different and it is important that you understand them.

A job, is not work. A job can be work. But a job is called as such because, plain and simple, usually, it is a task that is not liked. It's a thing that most people believe is essential, and that it has to be done, even if they don't like it.

"It's my job to clean up horse shit in the stables."

"It's my job to go down in the sewers."

"It's my job to serve customers in retail."

A job is a state of mind. Usually an unpleasant task, that you only really do because you want what the job offers.

Money.

Now then. What is work? Work is a natural part of life. Everything in life requires work. However, while work can be hard, work can be not so enjoyable, work has a payoff.

For example. You want to grow your own food. Tilling, and upkeeping a garden is work. It is not easy, and it is not too enjoyable. But if you stick with it, you have your own damn food. And when you're eating your own damn food, you gain a sense of satisfaction because you put that work in to do it.

Something in your house breaks. You've gotta fix it. That's work. But the end result is the repairing of what was broken, maybe even making said broken thing better than it was before it broke. Work is hard, work shows up and is a neccesity in life. But work, has a better end result than a job.

And a hobby, is something you can do for enjoyment. Hobbies can still take work to do, but overall, a hobby doesn't feel so much like work if somebody truly enjoys it. The feeling of it being "work" is absent.

And, because I've rambled here, I'll leave off today on this.

If somebody is doing a job that they enjoy thoroughly, and making money from it, then what are they doing?

Not a job. They're doing a hobby. From job to work, to a hobby, it's like a scale.

A job is the low end, negative of the scale. Work is the middle ground. A hobby is the up end, positive side.

That's all I can say for today.

I'm just saying, you can shorten things down.

Quote from: Sandtrap on March 23, 2015, 05:21:54 PM

Quote from: challengerX on March 23, 2015, 04:10:27 PM

Holy shit why do your posts have be THIS long?

I just don't even read them anymore. And it's a shame because you have shit to say, but fuck, man. They're too long.

Spoiler

Quote from: Sandtrap on March 23, 2015, 01:39:40 PM

Deci. Figure I should talk about more things here. But I'm going to break them down into segments for you as they show up for me. My head's delayed like that. Anywho.

Environmental stagnation.

Environmental stagnation is exactly what it sounds like. You grow tired of your environment around you. You grow fed up. Here's the important thing here Deci, to understand.

There is no avoiding environmental stagnation, unless you're a nomad. Unless, when you grow tired, you move. But here's why you can never outrun it.

You live in an urban area no doubt. Lots of people. City architecture. You're tired of it. I live in relative isolation. Small town life, a fundamental polar opposite to you.

And I'm just as tired of it.

So. Let's just say, that I packed my shit up. Let's say I rolled off down to my home province of birth, British Columbia, and started a new home there. What would I have?

When it was winter in Saskatchewan, there'd be flowers and green in BC. But there would be rain. Weeks and weeks of rainfall, grey skies. And it would be cold. BC has cold rainfall and damp weather because it's on the coastline. Spending even two weeks under nothing but cold rain every day, quickly evaporates your appreciation for the green and flowers.

Let's say I moved far down south. Somewhere warm and tropical in the states. While the radical climate change would be appealing, interesting, after a while, it would grow tiresome.

And now, we factor cities into things. Cities can accelerate environmental stagnation because cities are all founded on a singular, uniform basis. People, and money.

Every single city has a business center. Every city has suburbs, slums, shopping districts. The only mildly different variable are people. Culture, customs, ethinicity, and old architecture.

Compare my town, to another town here called Xenon. Xenon is a french community. Their buildings are completely different from the prarie buildings found here in my town and across the province.

One could say more enjoyable. Different. But if I lived there, eventually I would grow tired of it.

So, here's the point. No matter where you move, no matter where you go, environmental stagnation will eventually happen. Whether you live in a city, in a small town environment, or out in the woods.

So how do you deal with that?

Two things.

The first, is appreciation. Remember what you have. For example. My province is buried under ice and snow for about 6 months of the year. Our springs, and summers are incredibly short, and depending on the weather, usually rainy. Fall is the last warm period, before the climate goes truly ugly. I get incredibly down in Fall. And then winter rolls in.

This province is bare. It's been mowed down like a lawn for farmland. It's flat. And the people, most people, are stupid. Some tolerable, others not.

But what do I have? I'm 22. I have a base of income that I can always return to. The restaurant my mother owns, which I will inherit when she can't do it anymore.

I have the beginnings of a house, and land. And I live in close proximity to the only remaining family of mine that are alive.

And most of all, up here, nothing happens. There is no war. No high crime rates. Isolation. Peace and quiet. Compared to other parts of the planet, other parts of the world, even though it is challenging to live up here, and for 6-7 months of the year the environment is ugly, crushing, and depressing, in reality, all things considered, where I live is nice. And it, to some degree, is safe.

Count what you have around you, the good things.

And second. Focus.

A strong focus, a task to do will always help. Did you know, that actually, human beings for the most part are terrible at relaxing? If you drop us in a perfectly warm environment, nice and temperate, not too hot, not too cold, and give somebody a beach to rest on all day, every day they'll go fucking nuts.

Knock knock, our old partner stagnation again. He's got depression in the back seat too.

People are meant to move. They are supposed to move.

So when you have work, any kind of work. A task, something that needs to be done, or something you want to do, your head focuses on that task and the environment becomes a background.

As such, hobbies are an excellent focus. For me, my hobbies are helpful. But I need to work, physically, to move and think and occupy my hands to really not take notice of the ugly environment around me.

The more hobbies you have and take, and the more....little projects you start, the more you will focus away from your environment.

Raining outside? Snow and ice?

Work on making the floor of your house pretty, the way you want it to look. Sunny and dry outside? Cut and haul firewood. Paint your house.

Occupy yourself.

And third, which I didn't mention, is of course, a partner. Somebody close, or even just a friend in close proximity. Another head and person you enjoy your time around. Not only will their company put you at ease, but they'll do those little projects with you. Together.

So, key points here to fight environmental stagnation, since you can never outrun it.

Focus on what you have. The good that you have access to compared to others.
Focus on hobbies, or work. Little tasks to occupy your thoughts.
Do both of that with a friend or somebody more.

And, on last note.

There are three words that I'll come down to a lot.

Job.
Hobby.
Work.

All three of these words are different and it is important that you understand them.

A job, is not work. A job can be work. But a job is called as such because, plain and simple, usually, it is a task that is not liked. It's a thing that most people believe is essential, and that it has to be done, even if they don't like it.

"It's my job to clean up horse shit in the stables."

"It's my job to go down in the sewers."

"It's my job to serve customers in retail."

A job is a state of mind. Usually an unpleasant task, that you only really do because you want what the job offers.

Money.

Now then. What is work? Work is a natural part of life. Everything in life requires work. However, while work can be hard, work can be not so enjoyable, work has a payoff.

For example. You want to grow your own food. Tilling, and upkeeping a garden is work. It is not easy, and it is not too enjoyable. But if you stick with it, you have your own damn food. And when you're eating your own damn food, you gain a sense of satisfaction because you put that work in to do it.

Something in your house breaks. You've gotta fix it. That's work. But the end result is the repairing of what was broken, maybe even making said broken thing better than it was before it broke. Work is hard, work shows up and is a neccesity in life. But work, has a better end result than a job.

And a hobby, is something you can do for enjoyment. Hobbies can still take work to do, but overall, a hobby doesn't feel so much like work if somebody truly enjoys it. The feeling of it being "work" is absent.

And, because I've rambled here, I'll leave off today on this.

If somebody is doing a job that they enjoy thoroughly, and making money from it, then what are they doing?

Not a job. They're doing a hobby. From job to work, to a hobby, it's like a scale.

A job is the low end, negative of the scale. Work is the middle ground. A hobby is the up end, positive side.

That's all I can say for today.

Right. Let my try and set this straight here, if I can.

1. I'm a writer. Expressiveness is key to telling stories. Over time you just learn to write. It's not an off switch.

2. My head, is scatter brained. It isn't helped by meds. I have to really focus on something, to stay on track.

3. I think in thought trains. I type as I think. That's how I focus, or, in this case, make long rambles like this because I'm trying my best to get the point across while giving a thorough explanation of the how's and whys. Answering questions before they happen.

4. To me, a visible path of my thoughts is the best way to try and show where I'm coming from. Because otherwise I'm a fucking jumpy, scattered mess. Even in writing, even focusing, I still can't pin it down.

5. From now on I am trying to remember to add TL:DRs.

6. These number points are here for semantics because in reality what I just wrote was a train of thought from start to finish.

Apologies for me being, essentially me.

Can we stay on topic guys?

80% of your posts are superfluous. That's what I'm saying. You can get your point across without all the extra words and ramblings.

Quote from: Sandtrap on March 23, 2015, 06:22:56 PM

Quote from: challengerX on March 23, 2015, 05:58:58 PM

80% of your posts are superfluous. That's what I'm saying. You can get your point across without all the extra words and ramblings.

Or I can do something truly simple. Weigh my options. The amount of effort required for me to focus my head, and keep it not scattered about, and go through every single piece that I write, and gut it to shorten it and have people potentially misenterprate it because I removed some key points over the actual benefit of me posting anything constructive here.

Because, really, why should I even bother? Do I do anything? Do I help anything? Do I even do anything remotely decent here, at all? Provide anything funny or humorous? Interesting discussion? Do I gain something from attempting to make a point to another human being so far across the world from me when in all likely hood no matter what I say, it's just empty words to people?

No. I don't.

Point taken. I should stop. It's time wasted here, that I spend, no matter what I do. And it's wasted breath, no matter how short I make it.

Right. Problem solved. Go back to quiet old me. Superflous or no I realize that I actually have no reason to even talk here anymore. I do nothing in general. And I gain nothing by conversing. Nor do I give anything worthwhile. I should focus where it counts.

Right. That settles it nice and easy. Just go back to being a lurker. I've no point to make and people wouldn't particularily care anyway in either way that I said it.

Cheers. Silence is golden.

That really wasn't what I was saying at all.

I said I wished you made your posts shorter because you make good posts, but making them so incredibly long people just don't really read them.