Florida school shooting - 17+ dead

 
Luciana
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The amount of shootings being prevented immediately after this shooting are terrifying. I've heard of 3 so far, not including the one at a local high school where I live.
It's almost as if mass media coverage and glorification of these people starts to inspire other lonely virgins to become heroes too.
You have to wonder why they focus so much on the guy that does it when all it does is inspire the next one to try and one up them. I remember last tragedy there was an emphasis on not doing it, yet the moment this one happens they're all over it again.


 
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This is not the greatest sig in the world, no. This is just a tribute.
The amount of shootings being prevented immediately after this shooting are terrifying. I've heard of 3 so far, not including the one at a local high school where I live.
It's almost as if mass media coverage and glorification of these people starts to inspire other lonely virgins to become heroes too.
You have to wonder why they focus so much on the guy that does it when all it does is inspire the next one to try and one up them. I remember last tragedy there was an emphasis on not doing it, yet the moment this one happens they're all over it again.
Tragedy sells.


Genghis Khan | Heroic Posting Rampage
 
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The amount of shootings being prevented immediately after this shooting are terrifying. I've heard of 3 so far, not including the one at a local high school where I live.
It's almost as if mass media coverage and glorification of these people starts to inspire other lonely virgins to become heroes too.
You have to wonder why they focus so much on the guy that does it when all it does is inspire the next one to try and one up them. I remember last tragedy there was an emphasis on not doing it, yet the moment this one happens they're all over it again.
They want to take your guns and want people to agree with them on that.


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Alex Jones spreads conspiracy theories but the establishment media does the same with Russian collusion.


 
 
Flee
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I saw this earlier and I don't see why people are even bringing this up. These are two completely different subjects. And declaring porn a public health risk doesn't really do jack shit. Cigarettes and Alcohol are health risks and the only thing preventing people from getting those is their age.

>resolution to officially declare porn a public health risk introduced the same day
>ACCEPTED because porn is super dangerous you know?
Pretty much what Mordo said. The misplaced priorities just seem so absurd that it's almost comical. A man walks into a school, commits a massacre and shoots 17 people (14 of which kids). Just days later, the government comes together and decides that one, there shouldn't even be a debate on adopting new gun control rules to prevent this from happening again in the future, and two, during the very same session on the same day, that footage of people having sex is so dangerous to the people that it should be declared a public health risk and that research, prevention and policy changes are sorely needed to fix the problem.

Like I said, this is South Park material come to life. I know they're two different things and that this won't really do anything about porn. It's just striking to see the (exaggerated) thought process of "damn, 17 people just got shot at a school. Let's deny a motion to open a debate about potential gun control regulations because there's definitely no need for that, but instead focus our attention on the REAL danger to our public's health: pornography".
Last Edit: February 23, 2018, 07:59:01 PM by Flee


 
Luciana
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A few companies are distancing themselves from the NRA and others like Apple and YouTube are getting insane pressure as well

businesses are known for being very fickle, and going with whatever the way the wind blows, so odds are they'll soon distance themselves as well

sounds like me saying it's negative but no I agree with it. Businesses are just spineless since they need dat dosh. I wouldn't look to them for leadership much.


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tbh I'm leaning in favor of banning personal ownership of semi-automatic guns in general. Evidence shows this works. It feels like 2A proponents (which I generally consider myself to be) need to determine an acceptable level of gun homicides to sustain largely unfettered access to guns, and if that answer is an honest admission that the current numbers are okay, that's better than further deflection.


Genghis Khan | Heroic Posting Rampage
 
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tbh I'm leaning in favor of banning personal ownership of semi-automatic guns in general. Evidence shows this works. It feels like 2A proponents (which I generally consider myself to be) need to determine an acceptable level of gun homicides to sustain largely unfettered access to guns, and if that answer is an honest admission that the current numbers are okay, that's better than further deflection.
Aren't most homicides with a handgun? What does banning assault rifles help?


Turkey | Mythic Inconceivable!
 
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tbh I'm leaning in favor of banning personal ownership of semi-automatic guns in general. Evidence shows this works. It feels like 2A proponents (which I generally consider myself to be) need to determine an acceptable level of gun homicides to sustain largely unfettered access to guns, and if that answer is an honest admission that the current numbers are okay, that's better than further deflection.
Aren't most homicides with a handgun? What does banning assault rifles help?

Because the majority of handguns are semi-automatic? I didn't say anything about assault rifles.

I'm not even sure how a ban would work. A buyback couldn't happen, a registry would never work, and a blanket ban would be impossible to enforce.


 
 
Flee
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tbh I'm leaning in favor of banning personal ownership of semi-automatic guns in general. Evidence shows this works. It feels like 2A proponents (which I generally consider myself to be) need to determine an acceptable level of gun homicides to sustain largely unfettered access to guns, and if that answer is an honest admission that the current numbers are okay, that's better than further deflection.
Aren't most homicides with a handgun? What does banning assault rifles help?

Because the majority of handguns are semi-automatic? I didn't say anything about assault rifles.

I'm not even sure how a ban would work. A buyback couldn't happen, a registry would never work, and a blanket ban would be impossible to enforce.
At this point, I think the only realistic solution is for the country to move more towards the Swiss system.


XSEAN | Legendary Invincible!
 
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I got nothing
Fuck you Turkey I've been busy with life.


The only difference between the AR platform from civilian use to military use is the option of fully automatic fire and optional tri rail for accessories. 


This is coming from a guy who loves fire arms, love hunting and is a active reservist in the military.  Other than target shooting the AR platform is useless. Something has to change in society. Either the age of purchasing, more in dept checks or any other form of option that may arise.  Gun's don't kill people kill people. 

You don't ban cars for car accidents you charge the operator of the vehicle.     


 
DAS B00T x2
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This is not the greatest sig in the world, no. This is just a tribute.
  Other than target shooting the AR platform is useless.
I know AR type rifles are explicitly restricted in Canada under your system, but is there a blanket ban on hunting with semis?
I mean, they're pretty beneficial for the elderly or otherwise disabled since the moving action helps lessen the recoil impulse compared to a bolt gun in the same chambering. A faster second shot can also lessen the chance of an animal escaping merely wounded.


XSEAN | Legendary Invincible!
 
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I got nothing
  Other than target shooting the AR platform is useless.
I know AR type rifles are explicitly restricted in Canada under your system, but is there a blanket ban on hunting with semis?
I mean, they're pretty beneficial for the elderly or otherwise disabled since the moving action helps lessen the recoil impulse compared to a bolt gun in the same chambering. A faster second shot can also lessen the chance of an animal escaping merely wounded.
The only semi type weapons we have up here are either m14 or rugger 22 rifle. Most of our hunting is done by Bolt action or shotguns.  Our *Target shooting* is mostly pistols.


Genghis Khan | Heroic Posting Rampage
 
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  Other than target shooting the AR platform is useless.
I know AR type rifles are explicitly restricted in Canada under your system, but is there a blanket ban on hunting with semis?
I mean, they're pretty beneficial for the elderly or otherwise disabled since the moving action helps lessen the recoil impulse compared to a bolt gun in the same chambering. A faster second shot can also lessen the chance of an animal escaping merely wounded.
Assault rifle helps also if there is a riot and people are attacking your shop.


 
DAS B00T x2
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This is not the greatest sig in the world, no. This is just a tribute.
  Other than target shooting the AR platform is useless.
I know AR type rifles are explicitly restricted in Canada under your system, but is there a blanket ban on hunting with semis?
I mean, they're pretty beneficial for the elderly or otherwise disabled since the moving action helps lessen the recoil impulse compared to a bolt gun in the same chambering. A faster second shot can also lessen the chance of an animal escaping merely wounded.
Assault rifle helps also if there is a riot and people are attacking your shop.
Yeah but not many people want to bother with getting an NFA item. I know I don't, that's why I ain't got no assault rifles.


Turkey | Mythic Inconceivable!
 
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The only difference between the AR platform from civilian use to military use is the option of fully automatic fire
That's an enormous difference. It's what makes the AR-15 a non-military-grade, non-assault-rifle. Hell, you canucks can go purchase an M14, a weapon that was actually used in wars. In the context of murdering a bunch of people in close range without much thought towards accuracy or other ballistic considerations, how is holding an AR-15 different from an M14? How is it different from a semi-automatic handgun? The specificity of banning one type of gun is reactionary and unreasonable.

Quote
Either the age of purchasing, more in dept checks or any other form of option that may arise.  Gun's don't kill people kill people. 

You don't ban cars for car accidents you charge the operator of the vehicle.   
Cliches are cute, but we actually do strictly control the ownership of vehicles. They require extensive training and a valid license, insurance, and registration. And when people abuse their access to vehicles or demonstrate incompetence, that access is revoked. Do you believe weapons should be regulated like vehicles? Because I don't think that's a terrible idea.


Genghis Khan | Heroic Posting Rampage
 
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  Other than target shooting the AR platform is useless.
I know AR type rifles are explicitly restricted in Canada under your system, but is there a blanket ban on hunting with semis?
I mean, they're pretty beneficial for the elderly or otherwise disabled since the moving action helps lessen the recoil impulse compared to a bolt gun in the same chambering. A faster second shot can also lessen the chance of an animal escaping merely wounded.
Assault rifle helps also if there is a riot and people are attacking your shop.
Yeah but not many people want to bother with getting an NFA item. I know I don't, that's why I ain't got no assault rifles.
I wanna own a tank someday.


 
 
Flee
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http://www.tampabay.com/florida-politics/buzz/2018/02/26/president-trump-i-would-have-run-into-school-during-shooting-even-if-i-didnt-have-a-weapon/

>dodge the draft several times
>call POW's losers
>shy away from an 80 year old man collapsing next to him because it was "disgusting"
>"Hey guys trust me I can't even run because of the bone spurs I claim to have but would've charged in there even without a gun"

What a pathetic excuse of a leader. Unbelievable that people voted for and still support this lying POS.


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Captain Deci | Mythic Unfrigginbelievable!
 
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I've been quiet about this..... up until now. I saw the whole thing unfold on my phone while I was at work and man was I livid. So. First let me address the elephant in the room for 2 media outlets that I find disturbing for stretching the truth and overall being currupt in general. Fuck CNN and fuck The Guardian. I can't trust either of them. CNN especially. Also, fuck Fox too. On with my post:


This shit is beyond unacceptable, is this going to change anything? Doubt it. What's really disgusting is how the FBI had details on Nikolas Cruz and they took no action prior to this shit. 17 people lost their lives, most of those who's lives didn't even really start yet, cut short. because of a fucking primate. I'm not posting his mugshot here but he literally looks like a monkey.

Its fucked up. The whole thing is not only sad, but extremely depressing, and its repugnant that this is becoming the norm in my country. Schools need to have full on security armed to the teeth with metal detectors to prevent shit like this from happening. That's really the biggest change that can be done right now, because America is a gun culture nation. Guns circulate like money here.

Its disgusting that every single mass shooting like this now only sparks up the debate on gun control. A debate I am tired of seeing exist, a debate that needs to not only end, but die for good. The problem is this debate will outlive all of us. Humanity will have to evolve in at least 500 years to get past this shit.
 
When it comes to guns and this situation in particular, here is what I agree with:

- literally Nikolas Cruz should have not been able to purchase that AR-15, not at the age of 18, and should have been taken to a mental ward early on in his life. Nobody at the age of 18 should have the legal right to by a firearm. If they're not old enough to drink, they're not old enough to shoot. The US Army is the major exception of the rule and only when they are at base. I'm not saying Cruz should have joined the Army, I'm talking about any good law binding citizen that's under 21, can't have a gun and can only have one if they are at base in the army and trained for accordingly let alone formerly educated.

-The test to gun safety needs to be much more challenging, and background checks need to take longer and more detailed on a person's psyche.

-Schools should have armed guards and metal detectors across the entire perimeter. The way I see it we have to live in a police state now if we want to prevent shit like this from happening again as much as possible.

-Cruz getting the death penalty (My taxdollars are at work keeping prisons running and I'd feel even shittier knowing my hard earn tax money is housing this fucker if he lives)

Here is what I do not agree with:

-Abolishing the 2nd Amendment (If you're a US citizen living here, you're an idiot if you think that's going to solve everything regarding guns. If you're a European or any other non-US person or a US person not living in the states anymore, I'm sorry but this isn't Europe or wherever you are from/living at, this is America. America does not operate like Europe or your current country of origin/current foreign location, what works in a foreign country will never work in the United States, ever, so you need to let that shit go and let us fix this ourselves.)

-Ban the sales of AR-15s in general (all because of this mother fucking kid? You might as well as ban all violent video games then)

-Ban all guns (say America did that and pretty much killed the NRA, do you seriously think that's going to stop mass shootings? People who will want to commit a mass shooting will still do it, and it will happen a lot more than it does now. its called the flea market and the black market. No background checks, no test. Just pay cash, and you own a fucking AR-15 or AK47 or hell even a .22 Glock, illegally, and its incredibly easy to do if you have no guilty conscience or morals )

And my heart really does go out to all the victims here, including the survivors, and the survivors that say the AR-15 needs to be banned.

I get their pain, I feel their pain. That shit is traumatizing, I myself was in a lockdown in middle school and I'm glad that some idiot in the high school next to my school only brought a BB gun (not a real one) and no one was hurt or killed, so I can't even imagine what those kids went through.

Unfortunately, what they do not understand is that won't solve the problem. Ban the AR-15 and someone will illegally get an AR-15 and shoot up another school or illegally get an AK47, or any gun for that matter with the right know how to make it automatic even.

Remember, guns don't kill people. People kill people. The gun is nothing more but a tool. An instrument. Yes its main intent is designed for killing any living thing, but an AR-15 isn't going to grow legs and walk out the door of a gun store and go to a school and start shooting. That's not how it works.

When someone plays the guitar and that guitar sounds so awesome and amazing. Is it the guitar? No, its the person playing it, because you can give it to someone else and it can sound lousy.

Same with a gun. Give it to someone who has never used it and he or she could fuck up and hurt themselves, and give it to someone trained and they can aim a target with ease because they practice, or give it to a bad person and shit like this happens.

This is the reality we live in, and in all honesty, nothing is going to make this problem completely go away. Its gonna keep happening again and again and again. People tend to forget overtime or put stuff like this in the back of their minds until the next shooting happens. Its sick, but there is nothing we can do about it.

Wanna erase guns from history? Build a time machine, go back in time and kill the person who invented gun powder before he invents it.

That's my 25 cents on the matter. You may reply to it, telling me I'm wrong and that I should shut up and that I'm a fucking American idiot, say what you want. I'm not going to bother responding back. I just needed to vent about this and get all the negativity out of my system regarding this issue.
Last Edit: March 01, 2018, 03:54:35 AM by Decimator Omega


 
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This is not the greatest sig in the world, no. This is just a tribute.
tbh fam I'v been countering everyone who uses the "you can buy a rifle but not a beer" argument irl  by agreeing that it's absurd and saying that we need to lower our drinking age to 18 like the rest of the developed world. It either ends the conversation or derails it totally away from guns.


Genghis Khan | Heroic Posting Rampage
 
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tbh fam I'v been countering everyone who uses the "you can buy a rifle but not a beer" argument irl  by agreeing that it's absurd and saying that we need to lower our drinking age to 18 like the rest of the developed world. It either ends the conversation or derails it totally away from guns.
Alcohol kills more people than drugs but only one is legal.
Last Edit: March 01, 2018, 08:02:31 AM by Genghis Khan


 
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This is not the greatest sig in the world, no. This is just a tribute.
Four thousand deaths by drunk driving this year,  fam. Why are bars still allowed to have parking lots?


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People who will want to commit a mass shooting will still do it, and it will happen a lot more than it does now. its called the flea market and the black market. No background checks, no test. Just pay cash, and you own a fucking AR-15 or AK47 or hell even a .22 Glock, illegally, and its incredibly easy to do if you have no guilty conscience or morals )
The majority of these young shooters don't strike me as resourceful enough to do this.


 
Verbatim
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People who will want to commit a mass shooting will still do it, and it will happen a lot more than it does now. its called the flea market and the black market. No background checks, no test. Just pay cash, and you own a fucking AR-15 or AK47 or hell even a .22 Glock, illegally, and its incredibly easy to do if you have no guilty conscience or morals )
The majority of these young shooters don't strike me as resourceful enough to do this.
and it wouldn't be more or less difficult to do with or without a gun ban, or with added background checks

the option to purchase illegal weapons on the black market will always be there regardless of what solutions we implement

obviously


 
Verbatim
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tbh fam I'v been countering everyone who uses the "you can buy a rifle but not a beer" argument irl  by agreeing that it's absurd and saying that we need to lower our drinking age to 18 like the rest of the developed world. It either ends the conversation or derails it totally away from guns.
wait, do people really use that argument in contexts other than "we ought to lower the drinking age"


 
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I DONT GIVE A SINGLE -blam!- MOTHER -blam!-ER ITS A MOTHER -blam!-ING FORUM, OH WOW, YOU HAVE THE WORD NINJA BELOW YOUR NAME, HOW MOTHER -blam!-ING COOL, NOT, YOUR ARE NOTHING TO ME BUT A BRAINWASHED PIECE OF SHIT BLOGGER, PEOPLE ONLY LIKE YOU BECAUSE YOU HAVE NINJA BELOW YOUR NAME, SO PLEASE PUNCH YOURAELF IN THE FACE AND STAB YOUR EYE BECAUSE YOU ARE NOTHING BUT A PIECE OF SHIT OF SOCIETY
People who will want to commit a mass shooting will still do it, and it will happen a lot more than it does now. its called the flea market and the black market. No background checks, no test. Just pay cash, and you own a fucking AR-15 or AK47 or hell even a .22 Glock, illegally, and its incredibly easy to do if you have no guilty conscience or morals )
Deci much like these shooters you're the type of person to ask directions for the black market. Also a flea market is like a swapmeet lmao it's not the same thing as the black market.


 
Verbatim
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It's called the flea market.


 
 
Flee
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we need to lower our drinking age to 18 like the rest of the developed world.
>not 16 for light alcohols

ho ho ho


 
 
Flee
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People who will want to commit a mass shooting will still do it, and it will happen a lot more than it does now. its called the flea market and the black market. No background checks, no test. Just pay cash, and you own a fucking AR-15 or AK47 or hell even a .22 Glock, illegally, and its incredibly easy to do if you have no guilty conscience or morals )
The majority of these young shooters don't strike me as resourceful enough to do this.
and it wouldn't be more or less difficult to do with or without a gun ban, or with added background checks

the option to purchase illegal weapons on the black market will always be there regardless of what solutions we implement

obviously
Just an FYI for anyone who would think this way: There's plenty of things up still for debate in the gun control discussion, but it's well known that the legal market directly fuels the illegal trade of firearms. All these illegal guns were once legal. There's no underground criminal factories making Glocks and S&W's, and the ones that are custom made are usually ineffective, inaccurate and not very reliable. Straw purchases, gun theft and social contacts are the main ways legal guns become illegal, and they're all highly facilitated by lower gun control standards.

You're of course right in saying that the black market will always be there. But the point of any (criminal) law is to minimize, not necessarily eliminate completely. We don't just abandon traffic lights and speed limits because there's always going to people who drive too fast or ignore red lights. A policy is not only successful when it works 100% of the time and stops every single person from misbehaving ever. Even if there's still people speeding and ignoring lights, they probably don't do so always and millions of others do abide by the law as a result of which thousands of lives are still saved. This isn't much different. The black market will always be there, but basic rules of economics still apply there. Stricter regulations, more background checks, longer waiting periods, better enforcement and prosecution of gun crimes, more restrictions on ownership and sales overall... All of those things affect the supply of illegal guns which in turn drives up prices and makes them more difficult to come by. Yes, some people will still be resourceful, wealthy and determined enough to overcome this. But the more difficult you make something, the fewer people will actually do it. And this isn't just a theory. It's observable too. There's a reason why illegal guns are so much more expensive and difficult to come by in Europe than in the US, and why there's so much more gun crime in the US as well.

A country where this well observable is Australia. After adopting much stricter gun control rules, the price of illegal guns skyrocketed due to their supply being restricted. As a result, many criminals couldn't even afford firearms and many others had to resort to sharing a single handgun between a whole bunch of them. Of course, the US and Australia aren't identical, but the argument that "why adopt gun control rules when criminals just buy their guns illegally from the black market" really doesn't hold any weight and presumes that the legal and illegal markets exist in separate vacuums from each other - something which anyone with any knowledge of criminology and criminal law will tell you is completely wrong.
Last Edit: March 01, 2018, 11:47:23 AM by Flee