First world people have it so rough

 
 
Mr. Psychologist
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<.<
If you want to move the goal post, you better keep it there. Stop going around in blissful ignorance that you don't have it harder, or just as hard as people who live in war and poverty.

What part of no shit isn't easy to understand?

Of course people living in the third world have it worse, that's just an objective fucking fact. Neither I nor Meta are disputing that, he's on a different point but I'm saying that just because someone else has it worse - Doesn't mean that you have it easy.

If you want to feel guilty for being privileged, feel free. I certainly don't have the time or inclination to waste on guilt trips over some poor bastard in a desert that I'll most likely never meet. Would I help them if I could? Of course. Am I going to martyr myself over this? Of course not.


 
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This is the way the world ends. Not with a bang but a whimper.
I have to go now, don't feel offended when I stop replying to these shitposts.


You gonna go build some homes for people in Sudan?

Last Edit: September 04, 2014, 09:48:40 AM by Meta Cognition


 
 
Mr. Psychologist
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<.<
No.

So why would you bring it up then?

And there isn't an obligation to respond, if you have to go then you have to go. Calling opposing views shitposts though? That voids your right to call out my claim that you are baiting like an SJW.


 
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You know, the smiles on those kids look more genuine than anything I've seen from over 90% of the fucking kids in my town, and hell 90% of the adults here too. You don't have to be rich or even well off to be happy. And in that regard, there are people, who despite living with a mountain looming over them at all times, fight and struggle and find more happiness than many people in the so called modern and civilised world. And in some way, they have more than a lot of people in modern society can say. When you're happy, you don't need so much, because you can walk over and climb what the world throws at you.

We are limited to our perspective because of the way we exist. Every single person has troubles and obstacles. And to every single person, these obstacles can look like the same mountain as some person in a third world country dealing with trying to find clean water or start a home or feed themselves. If you switched places with them however, suddenly things would look different. You would not only understand that although your troubles are still troubles, but that you should appreciate what you have.

No matter what one human being is going through on one side of the planet to the other, we all face things that test us. There is no side that can complain and one that can't. Sure, I live in the modern world, and compared to some people in poor countries, I have a lot more than they likely ever will. But if you swapped our lives, and accostomed us to them, the challenges we'd face would both be very real, and very much the same. Something stands in our way and we must go through it, regardless of what it is.

I can't change the fate of how some people end up in other parts of the world.

But what I can do is remember, that when I ever do complain about something, it could always be worse. And what I have may be much more than some others can say. But that doesn't change the fact that my problems are very real, and carry as much weight as someone struggling to keep going in some dark corner of the world. The scenarios are different, but the struggles and outcomes of failure are very much the same.


 
Elegiac
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A lot of third world suffering is due to the west. The least we can do is clean up our own mess.


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Mr. Psychologist
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<.<
A lot of third world suffering is due to the west. The least we can do is clean up our own mess.

Some certainly is <.<

But an equally fair part is simply the way the first world used to be, until we went through the industrial revolution <.<
A lot of countries are undergoing a 21st century version where some of the tricky bits have already been filled in, but they are still going to be polluting, chopping down forests and using child labour like England did at one point >.>

Whilst we can obviously help by sharing more advanced and efficient technology (To try and make up for the whole colonialism thing) there is only so much the west can do. They basically need to get their act together whilst we give them a hand in doing so <.<


 
Elegiac
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Some certainly is <.<

But an equally fair part is simply the way the first world used to be, until we went through the industrial revolution <.<
A lot of countries are undergoing a 21st century version where some of the tricky bits have already been filled in, but they are still going to be polluting, chopping down forests and using child labour like England did at one point >.>

Whilst we can obviously help by sharing more advanced and efficient technology (To try and make up for the whole colonialism thing) there is only so much the west can do. They basically need to get their act together whilst we give them a hand in doing so <.<
We're still exploiting them for resources and cheap labour.


 
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This is the way the world ends. Not with a bang but a whimper.
We're still exploiting them for resources and cheap labour.
That's false. The only reason people see this is because there's some guilt in having cheap labour do things for us and make our products. We don't see the poverty of subsistence living in a trade-less economy. There's a reason that demand for low-wage, poor-quality jobs is so high, and it's because it's preferable to unemployment.


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Elegiac
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That's false. The only reason people see this is because there's some guilt in having cheap labour do things for us and make our products. We don't see the poverty of subsistence living in a trade-less economy. There's a reason that demand for low-wage, poor-quality jobs is so high, and it's because it's preferable to unemployment.
Exploitation isn't an acceptable or beneficial solution to poverty. You haven't contradicted what I've said, you've tried to justify it. It's about simple humanism and accountability. But I don't come on here to argue politics or morality with gamers and teenagers of all people. I think this thread should be moved to #serious where I don't have to look at it.


 
 
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<.<
We're still exploiting them for resources and cheap labour.

Yeaah <.<

There is a counter argument to that arguing that it's not a zero sum game, but I'm not entirely decided over it <.<


 
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This is the way the world ends. Not with a bang but a whimper.
Exploitation isn't an acceptable or beneficial solution to poverty. You haven't contradicted what I've said, you've tried to justify it. It's about simple humanism and accountability. But I don't come on here to argue politics or morality with gamers and teenagers of all people. I think this thread should be moved to #serious where I don't have to look at it.
Oh come on Elegiac.

Calling it exploitation is the real indicator of "privilege" here. People choose to work in such jobs because it's their best option, and buying their products is what gives them their income. No country ever got prosperity from aid.

It certainly isn't humanistic to assume you know what is best for these people, despite not being in their position.

Last Edit: September 04, 2014, 12:22:41 PM by Meta Cognition


 
 
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<.<


 
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This is the way the world ends. Not with a bang but a whimper.
Not another infected ;-;
It seemed like the only appropriate word, to be honest. The reason we can try and make this prescriptions and proposals for the third-world is born of the fact that we don't have a proper understanding of what it's like. People want to live in poverty because it's better than complete and utter anus-wrecking poverty.


 
 
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It seemed like the only appropriate word, to be honest. The reason we can try and make this prescriptions and proposals for the third-world is born of the fact that we don't have a proper understanding of what it's like. People want to live in poverty because it's better than complete and utter anus-wrecking poverty.

*vomits*

He's already at stage 2, we must burn this one immediately.

Spoiler
I know, I know :P


 
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This is the way the world ends. Not with a bang but a whimper.
*vomits*

He's already at stage 2, we must burn this one immediately.

Spoiler
I know, I know :P
YouTube


 
Elegiac
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Oh come on Elegiac.

Calling it exploitation is the real indicator of "privilege" here. People choose to work in such jobs because it's their best option, and buying their products is what gives them their income. No country ever got prosperity from aid.

It certainly isn't humanistic to assume you know what is best for these people, despite not being in their position.


Last comment, you forced it out of me with your callous ridiculousness.

It's not a huge imaginative leap to assume that if I were one of those people, I would like a fairer deal. They say as much themselves. It isn't about aid; it's about not putting profit before people.


 
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This is the way the world ends. Not with a bang but a whimper.
Last comment, you forced it out of me with your callous ridiculousness.

It's not a huge imaginative leap to assume that if I were one of those people, I would like a fairer deal. They say as much themselves. It isn't about aid; it's about not putting profit before people.
Callousness has nothing to do with it, it's about economics.

Just, read this. An actual economist will put it more succinctly than I ever could. The point is that a "fairer deal" is only ever going to come about over time, with the development of infrastructure and economic growth. You can't force a better situation on these people, and trying to do so will just pull the rug out from under them. Not putting profits before people will result in a situation whereby the people are too expensive, and they won't get any benefits at all from the economy.

Last Edit: September 04, 2014, 12:41:03 PM by Meta Cognition


 
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You will find out who you are not a thousand times, before you ever discover who you are. I hope you find peace in yourself and learn to love instead of hate.
Yeah it sucks to be them but what do you want me to do?
Just because others live in a worse situation than I do doesn't mean I should lower myself to their level.


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This is pathetic, Cheat
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This is the way the world ends. Not with a bang but a whimper.
Part of me feels as if this is stemming from the thread on separating students on ability, where me and Mr Psychologist both claim to have done well despite not coming from affluent backgrounds.

If you want to take a global view of it, then sure, we're ridiculously affluent and incredibly lucky. Do I feel grateful? No, not on an emotional level, although I understand my luck intellectually. I don't know if that's just me or if it's born of a deadened sense of my own, comparative, affluence to those in poorer countries.

Nonetheless, don't confuse international affluence with intranational affluence. Me and Mr Psychologist were making the claim that we're not particularly affluent compared to the people in our own environment, and our achievements are contingent on the effort we expend in that environment. Neither of us ever made the claim that we don't have an affluent background relative to people from other countries.


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This is pathetic, Cheat
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Last Edit: September 05, 2014, 05:31:59 AM by Le Dustin


 
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This is the way the world ends. Not with a bang but a whimper.
Most kids don't have much money, you're not really that unique (25% of all kids in the US are born in poverty, the overwhelming majority are born well below average). In fact both of you are just exaggerating anyway. How many parents do you have? Two? Oh, I thought as much.
U.S. poverty measures aren't terribly reliable, considering the fact that they don't factor in things like transfers (which most developed countries do).

Yes, I have two parents. A mother, and a step-father. My mother raised me by herself for about the first 7 years of my life.


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This is the way the world ends. Not with a bang but a whimper.


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This is the way the world ends. Not with a bang but a whimper.
The article you linked doesn't even say that countries measure poverty rates differently in the fashion you described.
That wasn't the point of the paper. The paper was to show that measurements of consumption uniformly raise the worst off to a position that is considered, by global standards, to be middle class and to show that measurements of poverty in the U.S. are skewed.
Quote
It doesn't make any sense anyway due to the fact that there are many organizations that could extract that information and analyze income and consumption among the poor, so trying to say the well accepted poverty rates are skewed is a claim with no merit.
I don't know what you mean by that.

Quote
Further, the point is moot anyway if your prior point is that there is a difference between international affluence and intranational affluence, and looking at only one country, the means in which poverty is measured is irrelevant, so long as it is uniform and can extrapolate the relative wealth inequality of that one country.
I know you better than to think you're trying to equate poverty with inequality. . .

Quote
So back to my original point, poverty isn't unique in a first world country, and at the same time, it's still a high standard of living for the rest of the world.
I never said anything even remotely close to contradicting that. All I said was that, in terms of global poverty, pretty much everybody in the U.S. is middle class, and in terms of national poverty the definition is so relative that you can't even begin to compare it to foreign countries.

That is my point. I don't know how you've managed to come from claiming I'm incredibly well-off to claiming that, in the national scheme of impoverishment, I'm not particularly unique (which again, I'm not) - neither of those things I denied in the first place. My original point was that, relative the environment I have grown up in, my academic effort has exceeded those similar to or marginally above me.
Last Edit: September 05, 2014, 06:20:02 AM by Meta Cognition


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emigrate or degenerate. the choice is yours
You know, to blithely pass judgements on people because they grew up on a less politically and economically volatile continent is kind of insulting. You really think you can encapsulate me as a person because you can gauge how 'privileged' I am based on the country I grew up in? Fuck off. You don't know me besides this veil of cyber anonymity, and you never will, so don't ever assume that my life is fucking 'privileged' because of a few gutter rats that have it worse off than me due to circumstances that I (or anyone else for that matter) can't ever control.

I think it's time to stop browsing tumblr and lapping up Jay's rhetoric, Dustin.
Last Edit: September 05, 2014, 06:41:08 AM by Madman Mordo