Tonight - The Final Debate

PSU · October 19, 2016, 09:47:08 PM

We're wasting our time anyway. Hillary will be the next president of the united states because that's what the establishment wants.

Luciana · October 19, 2016, 09:48:03 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on October 19, 2016, 09:47:00 PM

Quote from: PSU on October 19, 2016, 09:45:00 PM
2-1 Trump.

Hillary won the 1st.
Trump won the last 2.
In all seriousness, like the second debate, I consider this one a stalemate.

Emphasis on "stale."

I'm surprised you even gave the first one to Hillary.

It honestly doesn't even matter. Everyone already has their minds made up. I doubt there is an undecided at this point.

Luciana · October 19, 2016, 09:49:08 PM

Quote from: PSU on October 19, 2016, 09:47:08 PM

We're wasting our time anyway. Hillary will be the next president of the united states because that's what the establishment wants.

Yeah

and it was never Donald's fault. None of his outbursts or far right rhetoric has done him in. Nope. He did no wrong. Never mind the history of moderate strategy winning the most because they can win enough votes from both sides, rather than just always stay far right or far left.

PSU · October 19, 2016, 09:50:32 PM

Quote from: Luciana on October 19, 2016, 09:49:08 PM

Quote from: PSU on October 19, 2016, 09:47:08 PM
We're wasting our time anyway. Hillary will be the next president of the united states because that's what the establishment wants.
Yeah

and it was never Donald's fault. None of his outbursts or far right rhetoric has done him in. Nope. He did no wrong. Never mind the history of moderate strategy winning the most because they can win enough votes from both sides, rather than just always stay far right or far left.

Nope not Donalds fault at all.

Could have been Rubio or Cruz, Hillary was winning no matter what.

Luciana · October 19, 2016, 09:51:26 PM

Quote from: PSU on October 19, 2016, 09:50:32 PM

Nope not Donalds fault at all.

Could have been Rubio or Cruz, Hillary was winning no matter what.

Not... really. Anyone but Cruz or the Donald could have easily beaten Clinton. Going too far right, or too far left, is suicide, because most people in the country will relate to a moderate position.

If you honestly don't think it wasn't Trump not being able to get out of his own way, idk what to tell you.

Anyway, it's getting late. As much as we do bicker over this, it is enjoyable to have these discussions with you (and others). So I'm gonna call it a night. I just want this election done with.

CIS · October 19, 2016, 09:54:43 PM

THE RIDE NEVER ENDS

maverick · October 19, 2016, 09:56:19 PM

Quote from: CIS on October 19, 2016, 09:54:43 PM

THE RIDE NEVER ENDS

I HOPE THIS ELECTION NEVER ENDS

Tyger · October 19, 2016, 09:56:25 PM

Why do you think Rubio could beat Hillary when he wasn't even the runner up in his own party

Luciana · October 19, 2016, 09:56:42 PM

Trump all but sealed his fate when he went against his VP, and daughter in saying he will or will not accept the results.

Tyger · October 19, 2016, 09:58:25 PM

Trump set records in the primary. Thinking another republican could do better is just dumb lmao

Luciana · October 19, 2016, 10:00:39 PM

Quote from: Tyger on October 19, 2016, 09:56:25 PM

Why do you think Rubio could beat Hillary when he wasn't even the runner up in his own party

Well the issue with everything with the GOP this cycle was they were out of touch with their base, and didn't coalesce behind one candidate early on to stop Trump. By the time they did unite behind one candidate, it was already too late, and Trump had the momentum. What sounds more appealing to you?

Bush saying "Vote for me and I'll guarantee a steady growth in our economy"

or Trump going "We don't win anymore. Vote for me and I'll make us win again."

That answer is easy enough. Anyway, the problem with Trump is his root message is one that could easily win anyone over. Washington is corrupt, we need to change it, you need someone who doesn't cozy up to Washington like Hillary. That message was exactly what got the Tea Party into power in 2010, though later all they did was literally nothing, rather than offer their own solutions, which only pissed the base off more. The issue is everything else Trump has said that has polarized him from winning anyone outside of the far right.

The prime example I use is Kasich. If they would have voted for him, the man who helped Bill Clinton balance the budget that Hillary loves to throw around, it'd be no contest. Trump was always damaged goods. Any of those other candidates could have beat Hillary, who has proven to be corrupt, make mistakes, and be a war hawk.

But I digress hugely. Your question is with Rubio. That's easy. He's young, he's charismatic, and he is the future of the Republican Party. He also was one of the few that busted his ass (and later ran from it) trying to reform Immigration that has always been promised to be reformed for decades. Basically, he'd have the Obama vs McCain effect. Old vs New. A change vs the same ole same ole.

PSU · October 19, 2016, 10:02:49 PM

Kasich would have been destroyed in these debates.

Zero chance.

maverick · October 19, 2016, 10:03:07 PM

Quote from: Tyger on October 19, 2016, 09:56:25 PM

Why do you think Rubio could beat Hillary when he wasn't even the runner up in his own party

There was a negative correlation in polls between how candidates did in the primaries and how they would do against Hillary. He was consistently a strong debater (aside from his gaffe with Christie), and I think he would have really brought it to Hillary and run a better campaign.

Cruz, Carson, and Bush would've gotten rekt however.

Luciana · October 19, 2016, 10:04:15 PM

Quote from: PSU on October 19, 2016, 10:02:49 PM

Kasich would have been destroyed in these debates.

Zero chance.

I'm not so sure. Kasich is the voice of reason in his party, and he has a history of actually doing things. Pair that with Hillary's mass corruption, and he'd have easily been boosted in the polls. He'd also appeal to the moderate democrats, and even the Republicans not voting for Trump. His favorability rating would destroy Hillary. Her own party doesn't even like her.

Verbatim · October 19, 2016, 11:37:33 PM

Ian · October 19, 2016, 11:42:06 PM

I just watched the debate, it's nearing the end right now, but even with Hillary winning the presidency she lost this debate hard. She got BTFO several times and completely changed subjects at several points. If Trump was like this in all three debates the polls would be a little different.

Verbatim · October 19, 2016, 11:43:53 PM

Quote from: Ian on October 19, 2016, 11:42:06 PM

I just watched the debate, it's nearing the end right now, but even with Hillary winning the presidency she lost this debate hard. She got BTFO several times and completely changed subjects at several points. If Trump was like this in all three debates the polls would be a little different.

The only two people who have worse political opinions than you on this board are PSU and Alpha.

More Than Mortal · October 19, 2016, 11:52:29 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on October 19, 2016, 11:43:53 PM

Quote from: Ian on October 19, 2016, 11:42:06 PM
I just watched the debate, it's nearing the end right now, but even with Hillary winning the presidency she lost this debate hard. She got BTFO several times and completely changed subjects at several points. If Trump was like this in all three debates the polls would be a little different.
The only two people who have worse political opinions than you on this board are PSU and Alpha.

man's lengin some REGULATIONS

Ian · October 19, 2016, 11:54:40 PM

I'm not trying to say this in an effort to undermine Hillary (She is gonna win the election after all) but for God's sake Verb, she was left helpless at several comments he made tonight. When it came to the Clinton Foundation she immediately brought up Trump, when guns were brought up, she back pedaled. She would've won if she just admitted to several mistakes like she did in the first debate.

Also the idea of not raising the debt by one CENT? C'mon Hillary, you have to be somewhat realistic here. As soon as you take Oath you've technically added fifty bucks to it.

Quote from: Verbatim on October 19, 2016, 11:43:53 PM

The only two people who have worse political opinions than you on this board are PSU and Alpha.

More Than Mortal · October 20, 2016, 12:02:52 AM

One of the things I really don't get is how Hillary supporters smear Trump for blatantly lying/ignoring facts. Hillary's exactly the same; Trump is just more obvious about it.

Not that I'm saying they're qualitatively equal as candidates, but the section on national debt boiled down to the moderator noting "your plan will increase debt-to-GDP to 86pc" and Hillary replying "No it won't".

The only difference between this and Trump saying "wrong" all the time is that Clinton is willing to couch it in rhetoric.

Tyger · October 20, 2016, 12:11:11 AM

Quote from: Verbatim on October 19, 2016, 11:43:53 PM

Quote from: Ian on October 19, 2016, 11:42:06 PM
I just watched the debate, it's nearing the end right now, but even with Hillary winning the presidency she lost this debate hard. She got BTFO several times and completely changed subjects at several points. If Trump was like this in all three debates the polls would be a little different.
The only two people who have worse political opinions than you on this board are PSU and Alpha.

in alphas defense he's like 12

maverick · October 20, 2016, 12:11:30 AM

Quote from: Meta Cognition on October 20, 2016, 12:02:52 AM

One of the things I really don't get is how Hillary supporters smear Trump for blatantly lying/ignoring facts. Hillary's exactly the same; Trump is just more obvious about it.

Not that I'm saying they're qualitatively equal as candidates, but the section on national debt boiled down to the moderator noting "your plan will increase debt-to-GDP to 86pc" and Hillary replying "No it won't".

The only difference between this and Trump saying "wrong" all the time is that Clinton is willing to couch it in rhetoric.

It's nothing new. Both sides have selective hearing and will believe literally anything their candidate says. It amazes me honestly.

Batch · October 20, 2016, 05:12:06 AM

Quote from: Ian on October 19, 2016, 11:42:06 PM

I just watched the debate, it's nearing the end right now, but even with Hillary winning the presidency she lost this debate hard. She got BTFO several times and completely changed subjects at several points. If Trump was like this in all three debates the polls would be a little different.

>Believing the polls after witnessing months of this constant shilling and poll botting by the left.

Batch · October 20, 2016, 05:12:45 AM

Quote from: Verbatim on October 19, 2016, 11:43:53 PM

Quote from: Ian on October 19, 2016, 11:42:06 PM
I just watched the debate, it's nearing the end right now, but even with Hillary winning the presidency she lost this debate hard. She got BTFO several times and completely changed subjects at several points. If Trump was like this in all three debates the polls would be a little different.
The only two people who have worse political opinions than you on this board are PSU and Alpha.

Please tell me you're for third party?

Flee · October 20, 2016, 08:19:31 AM

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Verbatim · October 20, 2016, 09:00:53 AM

Quote from: Batch on October 20, 2016, 05:12:45 AM

Quote from: Verbatim on October 19, 2016, 11:43:53 PM
Quote from: Ian on October 19, 2016, 11:42:06 PM
I just watched the debate, it's nearing the end right now, but even with Hillary winning the presidency she lost this debate hard. She got BTFO several times and completely changed subjects at several points. If Trump was like this in all three debates the polls would be a little different.
The only two people who have worsI am.e political opinions than you on this board are PSU and Alpha.
Please tell me you're for third party?

I am.

PSU · October 20, 2016, 09:36:21 AM

Quote from: Flee on October 20, 2016, 08:19:31 AM

Quote from: PSU on October 19, 2016, 09:47:08 PM
We're wasting our time anyway. Hillary will be the next president of the united states because that's what the establishment wants.
So have you already started packing? There's screenshots and pretty clear proof of you promising you'd leave the country if Trump loses.

Unless you're just going to do as predicted and come up with the childish "it doesn't count this time" excuse and blame everyone and everything instead.

1. I said I would go to Alaska.
2. It's obvious it's rigged.
3. Why would I care about a "promise" I made to a dying forum?

Luciana · October 20, 2016, 09:37:09 AM

Quote from: Ian on October 19, 2016, 11:42:06 PM

I just watched the debate, it's nearing the end right now, but even with Hillary winning the presidency she lost this debate hard. She got BTFO several times and completely changed subjects at several points. If Trump was like this in all three debates the polls would be a little different.

Even if he did (which I don't think he did. First 30 mins or so I think he did, but then it was the same with The Don), he forever sealed his fate with him saying he'd keep people in suspense by not accepting it if Hillary wins.

And before you say it's like Al Gore in 2000, yes, but that was very close, places were still getting recounts, and even after all that, he conceded and called for people to get behind Bush. If he loses by like 400-2000 votes, yes, he has every right to demand a recount and drag it out.

If either side loses by 2 million or so, then I think it's clear cut the message. Trump saying he wont accept sets a dangerous precedent. One that helped dog Ukraine, and other fragile democracies. It's pretty scary, but hopefully after he loses, it all goes away and he's just a one off crazy candidate.

Luciana · October 20, 2016, 09:38:30 AM

Quote from: Meta Cognition on October 20, 2016, 12:02:52 AM

One of the things I really don't get is how Hillary supporters smear Trump for blatantly lying/ignoring facts. Hillary's exactly the same; Trump is just more obvious about it.

Not that I'm saying they're qualitatively equal as candidates, but the section on national debt boiled down to the moderator noting "your plan will increase debt-to-GDP to 86pc" and Hillary replying "No it won't".

The only difference between this and Trump saying "wrong" all the time is that Clinton is willing to couch it in rhetoric.

I don't think Hillary supporters at all think she's not a liar. It's more a case of "both are pieces of shit. Which do you hate just a bit more?"

If we had a viable 3rd party candidate, I'd vote for them. If there is one positive that comes from this election, it's that the two party system is broken, and it's been exposed for the power keeping that it is.

Luciana · October 20, 2016, 09:39:51 AM

Quote from: PSU on October 20, 2016, 09:36:21 AM

It's obvious it's rigged.
3. Why would I care about a "promise" I made to a dying forum?

Already going back on your words and can't accept the fact your candidate is a retard who had every opportunity to win, but couldn't get out of his own way.

You are a very delusional person if you think Trump is some no do wrong man who lost ONLY because of some rigged election.

If we wanna dive into some conspiracies, how about this one. I think Trump wants Hillary to win. Both are democrats from New York, only one is more pessimistic than the other. He joined the election to make a point, and never thought (he said this in an interview) he'd make it this far. He doesn't want to win and become president, he wanted to make a point. What better way than to do what he does?

You ever notice when something comes out for Hillary that SHOULD fuck her over (every email ever, the FBI, the quip quo pro, etc), Trump says something even more crazy to get the media focused on him, and not talking more about the Hillary thing? It happens literally every. single. time.

I've said for the longest time I think he's not wanted to win and he's trying to hand it to Hillary. That's the one conspiracy I will even give thought to, because it's been reoccurring time and time and time again.

In that sense, maybe it was really rigged all along.