Otherwise Afghanistan was very rapidly progressing and recovering after the Soviet invasion and there was very little hatred for America and the west in general.
Thr country was stabilizing with Ahmad Shah Massoud until he was assassinated and the Taliban took almost completely over. The Taliban weren't welcome they were always a splinter group of the mojahedin and viewed as extremists. Shortly after his death America and NATO invaded.
I think removing Islam would bring an age of peace and progress never seen before. Maybe you think we're all dumb niggers who chuck spears at each other anyways, but that isn't the case. Islam is really holding Arabs and Iranians back.
Quote from: challengerX on May 26, 2017, 03:50:02 PMI think removing Islam would bring an age of peace and progress never seen before. Maybe you think we're all dumb niggers who chuck spears at each other anyways, but that isn't the case. Islam is really holding Arabs and Iranians back.With regards to the contemporary history of the Middle East up until around the 80s it was largely ruled by secular monarchs or secular nationalist governments, where was this "peace and prosperity"?
Quote from: WarTurkey on May 27, 2017, 07:37:38 AMRe: Saudis vs IranSaudi Arabia is such a valuable ally because of their government's willingness to tow the line. They don't use their military to enforce their ideology in the region, they don't attempt to start a nuclear program, and they control nearly half of the market's oil supply. Yeah their government is a reprehensible Wahabi monarchy, but at least they keep their aggression under the table, which is better than openly attacking coalition forces or putting a military stranglehold on resources. Iran's government is unwilling to any of those things.That's funny because it was Saudi Arabia involved in 9/11 and it's Saudi Arabia funding and arming terrorists.
Re: Saudis vs IranSaudi Arabia is such a valuable ally because of their government's willingness to tow the line. They don't use their military to enforce their ideology in the region, they don't attempt to start a nuclear program, and they control nearly half of the market's oil supply. Yeah their government is a reprehensible Wahabi monarchy, but at least they keep their aggression under the table, which is better than openly attacking coalition forces or putting a military stranglehold on resources. Iran's government is unwilling to any of those things.
I'm going to a major concert in manc tonight lads, wish me luck
Quote from: challengerX on May 26, 2017, 03:30:41 PMQuote from: The Hidden Gabber on May 26, 2017, 01:10:29 PMQuote from: Cindy on May 26, 2017, 09:38:52 AMQuote from: The Hidden Gabber on May 26, 2017, 09:27:10 AMQuote from: Cindy on May 26, 2017, 09:15:57 AMYou can find shit equally as bad if not worse in the Torah and New Testament as you can in the Quran.Well yeah, but they're not as prevalent.It's all very good saying religion is shit and that they're all equally violent faiths (which is incorrect), but the fact of the matter is Islam is the slowest kid in the class when it comes to reconciliation of faith with the values of western society.ISIS and various other Islamic terrorist organisations take the most extremist interpretations of the text that the majority of Muslims do not subscribe to, yes, but that doesn't mean they're not legitimate interpretations.The "what about X religion as well!" is such a cop out argument. Yeah, Christianity and Judaism contain a slew of disgusting passages, but Christian and Jewish terrorism is not the primary concern right now, is it?Yes but Christianity and Judaism also aren't the majority religion of pretty much the most unstable areas of the entire world.Religion is a factor, but it's not the only factor.Muslims make up about a forth of the entire world's population. If Islam was as radicalizing and horrific as people like to say that it is, we'd know.See, if you're going to posit the "destabilisation" argument you also need to explain why ISIS and other extremist groups existed before 9/11 and before the invasion of Iraq.You also need to explain why Islamic immigration produces more problems in developed societies than Christian and Jewish immigration does. MalmΓΆ and London, cities which you and I both know aren't exactly poverty stricken shit holes, have seen a rapid increase in homophobic opinions and anti-Semitic behaviour. Have the Swedes and the English suddenly become fervent bigots over the space of a couple years? Or is it more likely that insular Muslim communities have grown larger and more ghettoised?Nobody is contesting the fact that destabilisation has produced more harm than good in the Middle East, but that's not what we're trying to discuss here, so I'm not entirely sure why you keep bringing it up. We're talking about the social cohesiveness of Muslim populations and the lack thereof, largely due to the values they espouse that originate from the texts of the religion.Well the CIA and MI5 were conducting operations in the ME as early as the 1940's if not earlier. It's not really an excuse for people to form terrorist groups though.I heard one of the CIA's operations didn't fly so good.
Quote from: The Hidden Gabber on May 26, 2017, 01:10:29 PMQuote from: Cindy on May 26, 2017, 09:38:52 AMQuote from: The Hidden Gabber on May 26, 2017, 09:27:10 AMQuote from: Cindy on May 26, 2017, 09:15:57 AMYou can find shit equally as bad if not worse in the Torah and New Testament as you can in the Quran.Well yeah, but they're not as prevalent.It's all very good saying religion is shit and that they're all equally violent faiths (which is incorrect), but the fact of the matter is Islam is the slowest kid in the class when it comes to reconciliation of faith with the values of western society.ISIS and various other Islamic terrorist organisations take the most extremist interpretations of the text that the majority of Muslims do not subscribe to, yes, but that doesn't mean they're not legitimate interpretations.The "what about X religion as well!" is such a cop out argument. Yeah, Christianity and Judaism contain a slew of disgusting passages, but Christian and Jewish terrorism is not the primary concern right now, is it?Yes but Christianity and Judaism also aren't the majority religion of pretty much the most unstable areas of the entire world.Religion is a factor, but it's not the only factor.Muslims make up about a forth of the entire world's population. If Islam was as radicalizing and horrific as people like to say that it is, we'd know.See, if you're going to posit the "destabilisation" argument you also need to explain why ISIS and other extremist groups existed before 9/11 and before the invasion of Iraq.You also need to explain why Islamic immigration produces more problems in developed societies than Christian and Jewish immigration does. MalmΓΆ and London, cities which you and I both know aren't exactly poverty stricken shit holes, have seen a rapid increase in homophobic opinions and anti-Semitic behaviour. Have the Swedes and the English suddenly become fervent bigots over the space of a couple years? Or is it more likely that insular Muslim communities have grown larger and more ghettoised?Nobody is contesting the fact that destabilisation has produced more harm than good in the Middle East, but that's not what we're trying to discuss here, so I'm not entirely sure why you keep bringing it up. We're talking about the social cohesiveness of Muslim populations and the lack thereof, largely due to the values they espouse that originate from the texts of the religion.Well the CIA and MI5 were conducting operations in the ME as early as the 1940's if not earlier. It's not really an excuse for people to form terrorist groups though.
Quote from: Cindy on May 26, 2017, 09:38:52 AMQuote from: The Hidden Gabber on May 26, 2017, 09:27:10 AMQuote from: Cindy on May 26, 2017, 09:15:57 AMYou can find shit equally as bad if not worse in the Torah and New Testament as you can in the Quran.Well yeah, but they're not as prevalent.It's all very good saying religion is shit and that they're all equally violent faiths (which is incorrect), but the fact of the matter is Islam is the slowest kid in the class when it comes to reconciliation of faith with the values of western society.ISIS and various other Islamic terrorist organisations take the most extremist interpretations of the text that the majority of Muslims do not subscribe to, yes, but that doesn't mean they're not legitimate interpretations.The "what about X religion as well!" is such a cop out argument. Yeah, Christianity and Judaism contain a slew of disgusting passages, but Christian and Jewish terrorism is not the primary concern right now, is it?Yes but Christianity and Judaism also aren't the majority religion of pretty much the most unstable areas of the entire world.Religion is a factor, but it's not the only factor.Muslims make up about a forth of the entire world's population. If Islam was as radicalizing and horrific as people like to say that it is, we'd know.See, if you're going to posit the "destabilisation" argument you also need to explain why ISIS and other extremist groups existed before 9/11 and before the invasion of Iraq.You also need to explain why Islamic immigration produces more problems in developed societies than Christian and Jewish immigration does. MalmΓΆ and London, cities which you and I both know aren't exactly poverty stricken shit holes, have seen a rapid increase in homophobic opinions and anti-Semitic behaviour. Have the Swedes and the English suddenly become fervent bigots over the space of a couple years? Or is it more likely that insular Muslim communities have grown larger and more ghettoised?Nobody is contesting the fact that destabilisation has produced more harm than good in the Middle East, but that's not what we're trying to discuss here, so I'm not entirely sure why you keep bringing it up. We're talking about the social cohesiveness of Muslim populations and the lack thereof, largely due to the values they espouse that originate from the texts of the religion.
Quote from: The Hidden Gabber on May 26, 2017, 09:27:10 AMQuote from: Cindy on May 26, 2017, 09:15:57 AMYou can find shit equally as bad if not worse in the Torah and New Testament as you can in the Quran.Well yeah, but they're not as prevalent.It's all very good saying religion is shit and that they're all equally violent faiths (which is incorrect), but the fact of the matter is Islam is the slowest kid in the class when it comes to reconciliation of faith with the values of western society.ISIS and various other Islamic terrorist organisations take the most extremist interpretations of the text that the majority of Muslims do not subscribe to, yes, but that doesn't mean they're not legitimate interpretations.The "what about X religion as well!" is such a cop out argument. Yeah, Christianity and Judaism contain a slew of disgusting passages, but Christian and Jewish terrorism is not the primary concern right now, is it?Yes but Christianity and Judaism also aren't the majority religion of pretty much the most unstable areas of the entire world.Religion is a factor, but it's not the only factor.Muslims make up about a forth of the entire world's population. If Islam was as radicalizing and horrific as people like to say that it is, we'd know.
Quote from: Cindy on May 26, 2017, 09:15:57 AMYou can find shit equally as bad if not worse in the Torah and New Testament as you can in the Quran.Well yeah, but they're not as prevalent.It's all very good saying religion is shit and that they're all equally violent faiths (which is incorrect), but the fact of the matter is Islam is the slowest kid in the class when it comes to reconciliation of faith with the values of western society.ISIS and various other Islamic terrorist organisations take the most extremist interpretations of the text that the majority of Muslims do not subscribe to, yes, but that doesn't mean they're not legitimate interpretations.The "what about X religion as well!" is such a cop out argument. Yeah, Christianity and Judaism contain a slew of disgusting passages, but Christian and Jewish terrorism is not the primary concern right now, is it?
You can find shit equally as bad if not worse in the Torah and New Testament as you can in the Quran.
Explosion in Manchester at a concert
