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Explain to me why college should be """""""free""""""" please

 
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I DONT GIVE A SINGLE -blam!- MOTHER -blam!-ER ITS A MOTHER -blam!-ING FORUM, OH WOW, YOU HAVE THE WORD NINJA BELOW YOUR NAME, HOW MOTHER -blam!-ING COOL, NOT, YOUR ARE NOTHING TO ME BUT A BRAINWASHED PIECE OF SHIT BLOGGER, PEOPLE ONLY LIKE YOU BECAUSE YOU HAVE NINJA BELOW YOUR NAME, SO PLEASE PUNCH YOURAELF IN THE FACE AND STAB YOUR EYE BECAUSE YOU ARE NOTHING BUT A PIECE OF SHIT OF SOCIETY
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ΚΑΤΑΝΑΛΩΤΗΣ | Mythic Invincible!
 
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Quote from: Chief Among Sinners on February 24, 2016, 01:56:04 AM
Why should I care about the negative sensations of another? Why should another care about mine?
Because there is no difference between you having your leg broken, and someone else having their leg broken. Those two scenarios are exactly the same thing. One is not more important or urgent than the other. They are both equally valuable.

You apply the golden rule.

If I wouldn't want to have my leg broken, I wouldn't want anyone else to have their leg broken, either.

Ethics 101.
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It is, if I have the capacity to make it happen.
Explain to me how that gives you the right.

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I don't recognize the authority of this "we". I'm certainly no part of it. Unless "We" is this elusive god of yours, Humanity, that somehow is god without being god. If We can establish his authority, and explain why I should care what he says, I'll think about it.
We establish our authority simply by virtue that there is nobody else to do so. We recognize that we are sentient, and have the capacity to not only suffer, but to alleviate our suffering--from there, we can work out that this "suffering" mechanism ought to be mitigated.

Because it kinda sucks, and it deters us from doing the things we enjoy.

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If you can't tell me why I should care what good or bad are, I have no cause to care.
The capacity to care for others, when it does not impel you to do so on a personal level, is basically the very definition of ethics.

If you'd rather be unethical, that's your choice. But don't pretend as though you're anything else.

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"There is no god." "We are god." You realize these are two conflicting notions, yes?
The statements are meant to be chronological.

There is no god, so we assume the responsibilities of a god (e.g. constructing a system of morality that functions as a means to efficiently achieve our goals as a species).
Last Edit: February 24, 2016, 02:15:29 AM by Verbatim

 
 
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I DONT GIVE A SINGLE -blam!- MOTHER -blam!-ER ITS A MOTHER -blam!-ING FORUM, OH WOW, YOU HAVE THE WORD NINJA BELOW YOUR NAME, HOW MOTHER -blam!-ING COOL, NOT, YOUR ARE NOTHING TO ME BUT A BRAINWASHED PIECE OF SHIT BLOGGER, PEOPLE ONLY LIKE YOU BECAUSE YOU HAVE NINJA BELOW YOUR NAME, SO PLEASE PUNCH YOURAELF IN THE FACE AND STAB YOUR EYE BECAUSE YOU ARE NOTHING BUT A PIECE OF SHIT OF SOCIETY
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Quote from: Verbatim on February 24, 2016, 12:44:15 AM
I'm surprised people like you haven't tried commodifying oxygen yet.




 
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Quote from: Chief Among Sinners on February 24, 2016, 02:06:47 AM
This is literally all just shit you don't like.
It's only natural to dislike that which is objectively immoral.

And yes, any time I say "we," I mean the collective of the human species. As far as why you should care what the human species thinks--it really doesn't matter.

It's not a matter of whether you should or shouldn't care. Decisions will be made regardless. I'm not terribly concerned with whether you care or not. I'm simply explaining to you why your outlook on morality, from your hypothetical godless perspective, is flawed.
Last Edit: February 24, 2016, 02:24:55 AM by Verbatim

 
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Last Edit: February 24, 2016, 02:28:23 AM by Chief Among Sinners

 
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I DONT GIVE A SINGLE -blam!- MOTHER -blam!-ER ITS A MOTHER -blam!-ING FORUM, OH WOW, YOU HAVE THE WORD NINJA BELOW YOUR NAME, HOW MOTHER -blam!-ING COOL, NOT, YOUR ARE NOTHING TO ME BUT A BRAINWASHED PIECE OF SHIT BLOGGER, PEOPLE ONLY LIKE YOU BECAUSE YOU HAVE NINJA BELOW YOUR NAME, SO PLEASE PUNCH YOURAELF IN THE FACE AND STAB YOUR EYE BECAUSE YOU ARE NOTHING BUT A PIECE OF SHIT OF SOCIETY
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Quote from: Chief Among Sinners on February 24, 2016, 02:24:40 AM
No they're not. In one scenario, my leg is broken. In the opposite, some other asshole's leg is broken.
Explain to me the difference.

I wouldn't claim that my broken leg, if I had one, is more urgent than anyone else's. Why should I?

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From where does Ethics derive his authority? Why should I listen to him?
From the fact that if you don't, you will suffer. Your family will suffer. Your country will suffer. Humanity will suffer.

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I make the right. If it is within my power, and I can resist a countering force, it is my right.
But how? This time, actually explain how. Do not just simply restate your initial proposition.

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No, I'm right here, and I think your authority is bullshit. I'll recognize my own, thanks. If your authority is so great, come demonstrate it.
Neither of us alone have any authority. Humanity is made up is 7.2 billion people. I've never asserted that I alone have any authority.

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I don't recognize that We is sentient. I have no reason to believe in or care about We.
Are you a solipsist?

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What makes ethics so special?
Probably that it creates happy, comfortable lives, instead of one happy, comfortable life. You'll find that your own comfort and happiness is often contingent upon the comfort and happiness of others--it's in our nature, and if you deny it, you're either lying or mentally ill.

 
 
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Quote from: Chief Among Sinners on February 24, 2016, 02:27:49 AM
You mean it's only natural to dislike what You dislike.
No, because morality is objective. If it were subjective, it would be pointless to even debate about it.
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Haha, now We is starting to sound like a pretty strong egoist.
I don't think you know what that word means.

If anything, you're the egoist--because you're the solipsist. You're the one asserting that you're the only one who matters. You're the one who is confused as to why you should care about anyone else other than yourself. You function based on self-interest alone, and you do not recognize the importance, or the authority, of any objective ethical system. You're the egoist.

I only hope that you're playing devil's advocate, for something--because if you didn't believe in god, I'd really have to hope that you don't actually think this way.
Last Edit: February 24, 2016, 02:42:55 AM by Verbatim

 
 
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I DONT GIVE A SINGLE -blam!- MOTHER -blam!-ER ITS A MOTHER -blam!-ING FORUM, OH WOW, YOU HAVE THE WORD NINJA BELOW YOUR NAME, HOW MOTHER -blam!-ING COOL, NOT, YOUR ARE NOTHING TO ME BUT A BRAINWASHED PIECE OF SHIT BLOGGER, PEOPLE ONLY LIKE YOU BECAUSE YOU HAVE NINJA BELOW YOUR NAME, SO PLEASE PUNCH YOURAELF IN THE FACE AND STAB YOUR EYE BECAUSE YOU ARE NOTHING BUT A PIECE OF SHIT OF SOCIETY
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I'm going to bed.

Anyway Door--your personal inability to either grasp the concept of an objective system of ethics, or your refusal to acknowledge the authority of said system, unfortunately does not preclude the system's objectivity. The thing about objective facts is that they're true regardless of whether you're willing to believe them or not.

You're no different than a creationist who denies evolution, and claims that it's "just a theory," or anyone who denies any scientific theories just because we cannot reconcile the epistemological vs. the ontological. You deny it--and that's your choice, but in my opinion, you're sort of putting yourself at an intellectual dead-end.

 
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Last Edit: February 24, 2016, 03:02:04 AM by Chief Among Sinners

 
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"A time is coming when men will go mad, and when they see someone who is not mad, they will attack him saying, 'You are mad, you are not like us'."
-Saint Anthony the Great
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Last Edit: February 24, 2016, 03:07:14 AM by Chief Among Sinners

 
 
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Quote from: Mad Max on February 23, 2016, 01:15:02 PM
Because it's easier to make it taxpayer subsidized than it is to make universities reel in their absurd costs.
Ha. . . Haha.

All of the rise in tuition over the past few decades is explainable by increased government subsidisation of higher ed.

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I don't see why people aren't bothered by that, too.
Perhaps because it is mandatory?

 
 
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Quote from: Velox on February 23, 2016, 01:38:17 PM
I wouldn't be able to do that otherwise without putting my family's economy at great risk.
This is not true though, since it depends entirely on the system used to finance it.

 
 
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This is the way the world ends. Not with a bang but a whimper.
Quote from: eggsalad on February 23, 2016, 01:52:52 PM
How might this be solved if the demand for higher education really doesn't show any sign of falling?
With a superior repayment system; at least, that's part of the issue. Price controls are also used in countries like Britain, but I'm not entirely sure how well they work.

As it stands, however, demand for higher education shouldn't fall. Indeed it would be bad for the labour market if it did, given the rising wage premia on college degrees.

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Does it have to be government intervention?
This definitely needs to be a component.

 
 
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This is the way the world ends. Not with a bang but a whimper.
Quote from: Mordo on February 23, 2016, 06:40:47 PM
but I'm pretty apprehensive about it.
You should be if you're working class. Free higher ed. in Scotland has basically amounted to a giant subsidy to middle-class kids.

 
 
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This is the way the world ends. Not with a bang but a whimper.
Quote from: Verbatim on February 24, 2016, 12:44:15 AM
I'm surprised people like you haven't tried commodifying oxygen yet.
Huh?

 
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The logic that people follow is that a college degree now is equivalent to a high school degree in the 60's

 
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emigrate or degenerate. the choice is yours
Quote from: Meta Cognition on February 24, 2016, 05:18:13 AM
Quote from: Mordo on February 23, 2016, 06:40:47 PM
but I'm pretty apprehensive about it.
You should be if you're working class. Free higher ed. in Scotland has basically amounted to a giant subsidy to middle-class kids.
middle class represent yo

 
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"Why should society become more educated as a whole if it costs me more money?!?!?!?!"

 
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Quote from: Chief Among Sinners on February 24, 2016, 08:57:15 PM
Quote from: Cindy on February 24, 2016, 08:49:38 PM
"Why should society become more educated as a whole if it costs me more money?!?!?!?!"
This question is more valid than you think.
I really just can't understand the "I got mine" mentality of so many right-wingers

Why is it so bad to create a more equal society?

 
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A country comprised entirely of educated people is incontrovertibly good.

 
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