Punishment is a terrible way of looking at both ethics and jurisprudence.Nonetheless, this was the correct decision.
quick and painless
I think that rehabilitation should be valued over punishment
Aaaaand they made him a martyr, GG.
Quote from: Mr Psychologist on May 15, 2015, 03:18:47 PMAaaaand they made him a martyr, GG.Who cares? You can't not make martyrs for these people. They will find a martyr no matter what you do. I'm still waiting for the thousands of bin Ladens that were supposed to come after us when we killed the original. . .And if we have to deal with more Tsarnaev's as a result of this verdict, we'll fucking kill them as well.
ISIS totally didn't see a surge in popularity shortly after Al Qaeda died off.
Whereas if they slung the little shit into a supermax to rot away, that's not going to give him any publicity about his pathetic cause.
Quote from: Mr Psychologist on May 15, 2015, 03:50:22 PMISIS totally didn't see a surge in popularity shortly after Al Qaeda died off.Which also coincided with the Coalition pulling out of Iraq, a surge in Saudi support and their victory in capturing East Syrian oilfields.
Of course, but refer to my previous points about conduct in war. Killing POWs isn't an acceptable practice for a first world nation, no matter how scummy or terrible their actions are. Yeah we aren't going to break out the BBQ and grill some long pork like ISIS did, but it's still sinking to their level.
but it's still sinking to their level.
Quote from: Mr Psychologist on May 15, 2015, 04:04:37 PMbut it's still sinking to their level.Hardly. Motives matter. Killing somebody as a display of intolerance towards toxic, fascist ideologies (prisoner or not) is always going to be more moral than killing somebody (prisoner or not) in pursuit of those very same toxic, fascist ideologies. Even if the net body count is the same at the end of the day. Some people have more moral worth than others. I was opposed to the death penalty for a very long time, and still am in most instances, but the nature of war has changed. People like Tsarnaev aren't just criminals, they're enemy combatants willing to bomb civilians in pursuit of their Medieval world-view. I can't morally justify keeping him alive on the taxpayer's dime.
but killing someone for having a shitty ideology or a wrong one is unpleasantly reminiscent of exactly what the people with said ideologies would like to do.
Quote from: Mr Psychologist on May 15, 2015, 04:17:17 PM but killing someone for having a shitty ideology or a wrong one is unpleasantly reminiscent of exactly what the people with said ideologies would like to do.Oh, don't get me wrong, I agree. You're a scumbag if you're murdering Islamic militants in the streets, I'm just saying we shouldn't forget we have the intellectual capacity to be proportionate between different levels of immorality. It's all well and good comparing actions to ideal counterfactuals, but actual moral considerations often don't give us the luxury of such counterfactuals. I don't think the killing of Tsarnaev is moral in any absolute sense, it's just the least immoral option.
Quote from: Not Comms Officer on May 15, 2015, 03:20:29 PMI think that rehabilitation should be valued over punishment I totally agree, but it's worth noting that I) perhaps about half of all violent criminals aren't going to be rehabilitated anyway, and II) some crimes are so heinous that it isn't worth keeping the individual alive.
And then in a wider sense it's more the differing approaches to combating the problem, I'd rather see things that discredit and undermine the enemy ideology deployed rather than physical attacks. Stuff kind of like this -> Jordinian muftis countering ISIS interpretations of the quran That could just be the adage of if all your tools are hammers then all the problems look like nails (Psychology is the hammer here <.<)
Quote from: Mr Psychologist on May 15, 2015, 04:17:17 PMAnd then in a wider sense it's more the differing approaches to combating the problem, I'd rather see things that discredit and undermine the enemy ideology deployed rather than physical attacks. Stuff kind of like this -> Jordinian muftis countering ISIS interpretations of the quran That could just be the adage of if all your tools are hammers then all the problems look like nails (Psychology is the hammer here <.<)Actually, IS interpretations of the Qu'ran are generally accurate and valid. The problem is that the Qu'ran and the Hadiths are so broad and vague, that you can use them to justify anything. For example: the Qu'ran typically bans burning people alive. So what IS used to get around that to burn the Jordanian pilot is that a Hadith states that you may punish an enemy using the same thing that he did. And those bombings that the pilot did often incinerated people alive, so there's IS's justification for burning him alive which is Qu'ran-friendly.Many of these Middle Eastern states accusing IS of not being Islamic are just lying, since IS follows the Qu'ran extremely literally. If anything, states like Saudi Arabia and Jordan are not Islamic, since they've diverged from the Qu'ran a lot more than IS.tl;dr: IS is very Islamic, and anyone who claims that they're un-Islamic are bullshitting themselves.inb4i'maccusedofbeingaterrorist
And really, why can't we fucking murder his family for thinking their failure of a son is innocent?
Quote from: AstroNaru on May 15, 2015, 09:38:42 PMAnd really, why can't we fucking murder his family for thinking their failure of a son is innocent?Because that isn't justice.
Dzhokhar Tsarnaev got death penalty.
