Does the increase in Homosexual and other types of sexualities help the world?

DAS B00T x2 · July 04, 2016, 04:42:56 PM

Quote from: Callous on July 04, 2016, 04:18:40 PM

it's about the child having both a mother and a father figure.

And.... you can't act motherly as a man?

Verbatim · July 04, 2016, 04:43:28 PM

Quote from: Varg on July 04, 2016, 04:35:59 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on July 04, 2016, 04:32:46 PM
Quote from: Varg on July 04, 2016, 04:08:21 PM
What about parents that adopt though?
They're subject to the same criticism as well. They may not have conceived you, but that doesn't mean they're going to be any better or worse at parenting.
Even if they're improving the life on a child who already exists in a worse position?

Well, if I need $100 or I'll die, you can give me $80, and I'll graciously accept your donation. But you know... that's still not enough. So my point is that the best parent ever could only ever have $99 to give me. So I'm still dead either way.

I think you're just hung up on the word "bad" or something. I don't think what I'm arguing is all that disagreeable, if you really think about it.

Elai · July 04, 2016, 04:44:17 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on July 04, 2016, 04:38:10 PM

Quote from: Callous on July 04, 2016, 04:32:50 PM
Any child who was ever born or ever will be born will suffer immensely. The parents cannot guarantee bliss on earth, so therefore they do intend to inflict pain on their child, albeit, inadvertently.
eh

"Intend" and "inadvertently" cannot be used together. They directly contradict each other.

I would just argue that it literally does not matter what the parents intent was. It doesn't reprieve you.

Yes, perhaps I used the wrong words.

They intended their child to be born into a world where suffering is guaranteed. Just because they had the best intentions doesn't alleiviate blame. That's the gist of what I'm saying.

Elai · July 04, 2016, 04:44:58 PM

Quote from: DAS B00T x2 on July 04, 2016, 04:42:56 PM

Quote from: Callous on July 04, 2016, 04:18:40 PM
it's about the child having both a mother and a father figure.
And.... you can't act motherly as a man?

I'm sure you can, but I seriously doubt it's the same in a developing child's mind.

Verbatim · July 04, 2016, 04:47:11 PM

Quote from: Varg on July 04, 2016, 04:45:28 PM

There's no such thing as perfect so what you're trying to argue is pretty pointless.
It's one thing to be against conception, but it's another trying to argue for perfection. Anyone who strives for perfection (rather than self improvement) is delusional and will never be happy.

No one is striving for perfection. We've both said that perfection is not attainable; therefore, there can be no good parents.

Like, there's no solution to this problem. There can only ever be bad parents. That's the point we're making.

It's not a matter of what makes you happy--it's a matter of facing a philosophical fact.

DAS B00T x2 · July 04, 2016, 04:50:23 PM

A statement from the APA is as follows

Quote

Relatively few studies have directly examined gay fathers, but those that exist find that gay men are similarly fit and able parents, as compared to heterosexual men. Available empirical data do not provide a basis for assuming gay men are unsuited for parenthood. If gay parents were inherently unfit, even small studies with convenience samples would readily detect it. This has not been the case. Being raised by a single father does not appear to inherently disadvantage children's psychological wellbeing more than being raised by a single mother. Homosexuality does not constitute a pathology or deficit, and there is no theoretical reason to expect gay fathers to cause harm to their children. Thus, although more research is needed, available data place the burden of empirical proof on those who argue that having a gay father is harmful.

Further reading material
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/126/1/28.full
https://aifs.gov.au/cfca/publications/same-sex-parented-families-australia
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/15504280802177615

Now kindly kill yourselves. All of you.

Verbatim · July 04, 2016, 04:50:51 PM

Quote from: Varg on July 04, 2016, 04:48:19 PM

no one's bad just because they're not perfect

See, I knew you were hung up on the word bad.

I fundamentally disagree. Anything less than perfection is undesirable.

There is "better" and "worse," but you can never be perfect, and that's bad.

Elai · July 04, 2016, 04:52:26 PM

Quote from: Varg on July 04, 2016, 04:45:28 PM

There's no such thing as perfect so what you're trying to argue is pretty pointless.
It's one thing to be against conception, but it's another trying to argue for perfection. Anyone who strives for perfection (rather than self improvement) is delusional and will never be happy.

1. To not strive for perfection is to settle yourself with mediocrity. No thanks, I want more of myself. What you are must always displease you if you are to attain that which you are not.

2. No one is ever happy. Happiness is a fleeting delusion of the mind.

3. The only way to justify childbirth is though perfection so, yes, it seems entirely reasonable of me to bring it up.

Verbatim · July 04, 2016, 04:53:11 PM

That said, a homosexual couple is not inherently disadvantageous in any meaningful way.

They are just as capable of being parents as the average heterosexual couple.

Elai · July 04, 2016, 04:54:36 PM

Quote from: DAS B00T x2 on July 04, 2016, 04:50:23 PM

A statement from the APA is as follows
Quote
Relatively few studies have directly examined gay fathers, but those that exist find that gay men are similarly fit and able parents, as compared to heterosexual men. Available empirical data do not provide a basis for assuming gay men are unsuited for parenthood. If gay parents were inherently unfit, even small studies with convenience samples would readily detect it. This has not been the case. Being raised by a single father does not appear to inherently disadvantage children's psychological wellbeing more than being raised by a single mother. Homosexuality does not constitute a pathology or deficit, and there is no theoretical reason to expect gay fathers to cause harm to their children. Thus, although more research is needed, available data place the burden of empirical proof on those who argue that having a gay father is harmful.
Further reading material
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/126/1/28.full
https://aifs.gov.au/cfca/publications/same-sex-parented-families-australia
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/15504280802177615

Now kindly kill yourselves. All of you.

Stand corrected. I retract my previous statements regarding homosexual parenting.

Elai · July 04, 2016, 04:59:18 PM

Quote from: Varg on July 04, 2016, 04:55:26 PM

Quote from: Callous on July 04, 2016, 04:52:26 PM
The only way to justify childbirth is though perfection so, yes, it seems entirely reasonable of me to bring it up.
not if it's an impossible hypothetical

No, it's entirely reasonable because it's an impossible hypothetical.

Verbatim · July 04, 2016, 05:04:19 PM

Quote from: Varg on July 04, 2016, 04:54:00 PM

Labeling honest to god caring and loving parents that try to do everything they can possible for a child as "bad" does leave me hung up, yeah.

Because you're working with a different standard than I am. For me, anything that is imperfect is undesirable by its very nature, but just because everything is "bad" doesn't mean there is no "better" or "worse." Some things suck less than others. We often describe these things as "good," "great," "awesome," or even "perfect." But that doesn't make them so.

Winy · July 04, 2016, 06:43:00 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on July 04, 2016, 04:32:46 PM

It's mistakes like this--and I'm just ONE example--that separate the good parents from the bad parents. Good parents don't exist because the mistakes that parents make, no matter how small, can lead to catastrophic results. Even if your child ended up happy and successful in adulthood, that doesn't make you a good parent. It makes you lucky.

I don't believe that the entirety of whether or not parents can be said to have properly raised their child is determined by luck. At least, not primarily. Sure, there are some influences and facets of life that can't be controlled, even by parents who sincerely place the well-being of their child above all else, but I still don't think that making the blanket statement "All parents are bad" is accurate. A parent who has done everything possible to ensure their kids live healthy and happy lives is doing, as far as the term "Parenting" goes, as "Good" a job as could ever be asked of them.

My issue with the original statement was that it's redundant to say, from either his or your perspective (I don't know how closely they align), "Good parents do not exist." The root of that idea, where you say that because they had kids, they are bad parents, doesn't follow. If you're a parent, you've already brought a child into existence, so the original moral quandary about the ethics of creating a new person are thrown out the door. You can say you're a bad person for having a kid, but you can't say, when they're born, that the parents are somehow "Bad" at parenting. Parenting is the process of raising someone, not making the decision to birth them.

EarningAttorney · July 04, 2016, 07:12:05 PM

Quote from: DAS B00T x2 on July 04, 2016, 03:24:56 PM

Quote from: EarningAttorney on July 04, 2016, 01:53:03 PM
Quote from: DAS B00T x2 on July 04, 2016, 01:43:23 PM
Quote from: EarningAttorney on July 04, 2016, 01:24:16 PM
Quote from: DAS B00T x2 on July 04, 2016, 01:15:29 PM
Quote from: EarningAttorney on July 04, 2016, 12:43:55 PM
Quote from: Varg on July 04, 2016, 03:12:07 AM
Quote from: EarningAttorney on July 04, 2016, 12:48:53 AM
Homosexuality offers no conceivable benifet to society.
orphanages would say otherwise

The best environment for a kid to be raised in is by a mom and dad.
So?

So you wanna take advantages away from children?
I don't know about you, but Id rather be raised by a gay couple than spend my life in a stacked system that works against my wellbeing.

The orphanage system? Or what system? And how is that acting against you and how does a gay couple change that. Retard.
Uh, yeah. That system. That's kinda what started this quote chain, guy. It's fucked up and the state essentially works against clearing people out of it. I'll tell ya son, after seven years of trying to adopt domestically instead of just fostering differen kids every year, a lot of couples get fucking fed up and just pull a baby from China in two weeks.

If a gay couple can help a kid get out of that, then let's give more fags some more kids. We're not taking an advantage away from anyone by doing that. We're giving them an advantage over what they had before.

I wouldn't force a kid into an unstable home.

True Turquoise · July 04, 2016, 11:39:18 PM

I don't think on it either way

maverick · July 04, 2016, 11:39:43 PM

GAY IS THE WAY