Do you think death represents the total end of your experience?

Tsirist · October 13, 2015, 12:47:55 AM

Quote from: Verbatim on October 13, 2015, 12:44:26 AM

two rocks bumping into each other does not equal consciousness

fucking lol, this is exactly what you believe if you think that consciousness and perception and experience ALL derive from the brain, which is a completely physical construct. the brain is literally things bumping into each other, dude. how's that for an empirical analysis?

of course i don't believe that, but it's what others are arguing and i thought it was what you agreed with

Verbatim · October 13, 2015, 12:49:04 AM

Quote from: Tsirist on October 13, 2015, 12:47:55 AM

Quote from: Verbatim on October 13, 2015, 12:44:26 AM
two rocks bumping into each other does not equal consciousness
fucking lol, this is exactly what you believe if you think that consciousness and perception and experience ALL derive from the brain, which is a completely physical construct. the brain is literally things bumping into each other, dude.

...

the difference is that one actually does produce consciousness

and the other does not.

and cannot.

you insane fuck.

Verbatim · October 13, 2015, 12:50:20 AM

today i learned that two rocks bumping into each other can produce a conscious life form

Tsirist · October 13, 2015, 12:50:23 AM

Quote from: Verbatim on October 13, 2015, 12:49:04 AM

Quote from: Tsirist on October 13, 2015, 12:47:55 AM
Quote from: Verbatim on October 13, 2015, 12:44:26 AM
two rocks bumping into each other does not equal consciousness
fucking lol, this is exactly what you believe if you think that consciousness and perception and experience ALL derive from the brain, which is a completely physical construct. the brain is literally things bumping into each other, dude.
...

the difference is that one actually does produce consciousness

and the other does not.

and cannot.

you insane fuck.

Depending on what you mean by consciousness, I would agree with you.

eggsalad · October 13, 2015, 12:50:46 AM

Quote from: Verbatim on October 13, 2015, 12:49:04 AM

Quote from: Tsirist on October 13, 2015, 12:47:55 AM
Quote from: Verbatim on October 13, 2015, 12:44:26 AM
two rocks bumping into each other does not equal consciousness
fucking lol, this is exactly what you believe if you think that consciousness and perception and experience ALL derive from the brain, which is a completely physical construct. the brain is literally things bumping into each other, dude.
...

the difference is that one produces consciousness

the other does not

and cannot.

you insane fuck.

If you can't comprehend the difference between observable consciousness and the sensation of experience then you need to brush up on solipsism before even trying to think about this.

Sandtrap · October 13, 2015, 12:51:04 AM

Quote from: Verbatim on October 13, 2015, 12:49:04 AM

Quote from: Tsirist on October 13, 2015, 12:47:55 AM
Quote from: Verbatim on October 13, 2015, 12:44:26 AM
two rocks bumping into each other does not equal consciousness
fucking lol, this is exactly what you believe if you think that consciousness and perception and experience ALL derive from the brain, which is a completely physical construct. the brain is literally things bumping into each other, dude.
...

the difference is that one produces consciousness

the other does not

and cannot.

you insane fuck.

Sorry, but, it's an entertaining thought.

I eagerly or not so eagerly await the day when I hear the headline, "Scientists create first sentient rock."

Because that is something we'd fucking do.

And then we'd sell them as pets.

Verbatim · October 13, 2015, 12:52:46 AM

Quote from: eggsalad on October 13, 2015, 12:50:46 AM

If you can't comprehend the difference between observable consciousness and the sensation of experience then you need to brush up on solipsism before even trying to think about this.

well, solipsism is retarded, sooo

i don't really see a point in that

Tsirist · October 13, 2015, 12:55:09 AM

Quote from: Verbatim on October 13, 2015, 12:52:46 AM

Quote from: eggsalad on October 13, 2015, 12:50:46 AM
If you can't comprehend the difference between observable consciousness and the sensation of experience then you need to brush up on solipsism before even trying to think about this.
well, solipsism is retarded, sooo

i don't really see a point in that

I'm interested in why you feel that way, but I think that's a subject for another thread. gg i guess

Verbatim · October 13, 2015, 12:59:29 AM

for perspective, i used to be a solipsist myself

but then i grew out of it

Sandtrap · October 13, 2015, 12:59:47 AM

Little bit off topic here, but does anybody ever get a sour taste in their mouths, so to speak, after taking a stroll through philosophy stuff like this? Particularily debates?

Seems like a colossal waste of energy for some reason, because usually a philosophy on something as vague and open ended as death is all up to how people interpret things and personal opinion.

It's like watching two people trying to knock each other over with the slight breeze generated by their waving hand motions.

I actually dread when people bring this shit up.

aREALgod · October 13, 2015, 01:06:36 AM

Anybody who voted yes is just a fedora-tipping le edgy try hard. Of course death isn't the end of your experience.

Tsirist · October 13, 2015, 01:09:56 AM

Quote from: Deadtrap on October 13, 2015, 12:59:47 AM

Little bit off topic here, but does anybody ever get a sour taste in their mouths, so to speak, after taking a stroll through philosophy stuff like this? Particularily debates?

Seems like a colossal waste of energy for some reason, because usually a philosophy on something as vague and open ended as death is all up to how people interpret things and personal opinion.

It's like watching two people trying to knock each other over with the slight breeze generated by their waving hand motions.

I actually dread when people bring this shit up.

i recommend not coming into the threads then.

i find it energizing, personally

Sandtrap · October 13, 2015, 01:11:26 AM

Quote from: Tsirist on October 13, 2015, 01:09:56 AM

Quote from: Deadtrap on October 13, 2015, 12:59:47 AM
Little bit off topic here, but does anybody ever get a sour taste in their mouths, so to speak, after taking a stroll through philosophy stuff like this? Particularily debates?

Seems like a colossal waste of energy for some reason, because usually a philosophy on something as vague and open ended as death is all up to how people interpret things and personal opinion.

It's like watching two people trying to knock each other over with the slight breeze generated by their waving hand motions.

I actually dread when people bring this shit up.
i recommend not coming into the threads then.

i find it energizing, personally

My curiosity leads me to shit places. I can't not show up to look over what's being discussed in threads like these.

Dan · October 13, 2015, 01:19:00 AM

Quote from: Deadtrap on October 13, 2015, 12:59:47 AM

Little bit off topic here, but does anybody ever get a sour taste in their mouths, so to speak, after taking a stroll through philosophy stuff like this? Particularily debates?

Seems like a colossal waste of energy for some reason, because usually a philosophy on something as vague and open ended as death is all up to how people interpret things and personal opinion.

It's like watching two people trying to knock each other over with the slight breeze generated by their waving hand motions.

I actually dread when people bring this shit up.

I don't think it's a waste of time to discuss it.
However, a lot people are so influenced by their own ego that all they care about is what they believe and how they're certain that their philosophy is correct.

It's important to keep an open mind, no matter how radically opposed the other person's ideas may seem to your own.

MyNameIsCharlie · October 13, 2015, 01:24:12 AM

No, but I don't think a religion has it figured out, either. Science has yet to explain why we are conscious. I think we are more than our flesh and blood bodies. The stars await us.

October 13, 2015, 02:32:24 AM

Yep. Everything I am is my consciousness, which is housed in my brain. When I die, my brain rots along with my existence.

BaconShelf · October 13, 2015, 02:41:23 AM

If you get reincarnated but you don't have your memories or experiences then it's not really you, is it?

If you replace the brush then the handle of a broom, it's not the same broom any more. If you replace the body and mind of someone, they're not that person anymore.

My problem with the logic of reincarnation aside, no.

Sandtrap · October 13, 2015, 03:00:46 AM

Quote from: BaconSheeeeeeelf👌👌 on October 13, 2015, 02:41:23 AM

If you get reincarnated but you don't have your memories or experiences then it's not really you, is it?

If you replace the brush then the handle of a broom, it's not the same broom any more. If you replace the body and mind of someone, they're not that person anymore.

My problem with the logic of reincarnation aside, no.

The thing you're missing out on here, is that most definitions of reincarnation state the individual on this particular plane of existence if you want to call that, is just a fraction of who they really are. Like a shard out of something larger.

So, when you die, you're reunited with your sum whole. Their particular reasoning for this, is because down here, things are simpler. Your sum whole exists on another, wider realm of existence. To look at it in full, would be almost impossible. So, when you choose to return here, you're but a shard of yourself.

Which is why some beliefs pursue the path of enlightenment. Reuniting with your whole, on this plane. Reincarnation has nothing to do with actually recycling you. It's simply reuniting with the larger sum.

Rather fascinating these days for me to look at, and interesting, because a lot of the old Native American tribes up in my area had a very similiar belief system almost parallel to aspects of Buddhism and Hinduism.

Cadenza has moved on · October 13, 2015, 03:13:20 AM

Quote from: Deadtrap on October 13, 2015, 12:59:47 AM

Little bit off topic here, but does anybody ever get a sour taste in their mouths, so to speak, after taking a stroll through philosophy stuff like this? Particularily debates?

Seems like a colossal waste of energy for some reason, because usually a philosophy on something as vague and open ended as death is all up to how people interpret things and personal opinion.

It's like watching two people trying to knock each other over with the slight breeze generated by their waving hand motions.

I actually dread when people bring this shit up.

I think it's because it's impossible to determine if you know enough about philosophy to know when something is stupid/wrong, or if you actually don't know nearly enough to form a valid opinion on it.

Is this entire discussion some high level esoteric philosophy, or have we all just made a simple mistake and no one noticed? I can't tell and no one else can either.

BaconShelf · October 13, 2015, 05:00:17 AM

Quote from: Deadtrap on October 13, 2015, 03:00:46 AM

Quote from: BaconSheeeeeeelf👌👌 on October 13, 2015, 02:41:23 AM
If you get reincarnated but you don't have your memories or experiences then it's not really you, is it?

If you replace the brush then the handle of a broom, it's not the same broom any more. If you replace the body and mind of someone, they're not that person anymore.

My problem with the logic of reincarnation aside, no.

The thing you're missing out on here, is that most definitions of reincarnation state the individual on this particular plane of existence if you want to call that, is just a fraction of who they really are. Like a shard out of something larger.

So, when you die, you're reunited with your sum whole. Their particular reasoning for this, is because down here, things are simpler. Your sum whole exists on another, wider realm of existence. To look at it in full, would be almost impossible. So, when you choose to return here, you're but a shard of yourself.

Which is why some beliefs pursue the path of enlightenment. Reuniting with your whole, on this plane. Reincarnation has nothing to do with actually recycling you. It's simply reuniting with the larger sum.

Rather fascinating these days for me to look at, and interesting, because a lot of the old Native American tribes up in my area had a very similiar belief system almost parallel to aspects of Buddhism and Hinduism.

oh

that's dumb

Mr. Psychologist · October 13, 2015, 05:52:54 AM

The thing with reincarnation is that if it was the case then I'd remember previous lives and the like, the fact that I don't and nobody apart from a few attention seekers/basket cases do kind of puts paid to that in my book.

The notion of heaven is too nice to be real, which also puts hell in the deadzone.

I think when I die, I will rot away/burn to ashes/blow up (now that would be one hell of a funeral e.e) and that's that. I prefer to look at that sort of thing from a here and now perspective really.

What is the point in fretting over what happens when you die, being remembered or any of that because ultimately it is all inconsequential. You should live a good life and leave the world at peace, then that's that. Preferably leave the world a better place than it was when you entered it too, not by changing the world or anything silly like that but just help others, look after the planet/nature and don't cause suffering without a decent reason behind it (i.e being a dickhead for the sake of it)

Incan · October 13, 2015, 07:50:20 AM

I'm not entirely sure.

slayingold · October 13, 2015, 09:39:02 AM

I'd be more comfortable thinking we start a new life after our current one ends and not just us sitting under the ground seeing nothing but darkness...

PSU · October 13, 2015, 09:44:04 AM

No chance.

Personally I believe in heaven, but I can get behind the idea of reincarnation as well. The soul is a completely different entity than the body.

Tsirist · October 13, 2015, 10:44:11 AM

Quote from: Cadenza on October 13, 2015, 03:13:20 AM

Quote from: Deadtrap on October 13, 2015, 12:59:47 AM
Little bit off topic here, but does anybody ever get a sour taste in their mouths, so to speak, after taking a stroll through philosophy stuff like this? Particularily debates?

Seems like a colossal waste of energy for some reason, because usually a philosophy on something as vague and open ended as death is all up to how people interpret things and personal opinion.

It's like watching two people trying to knock each other over with the slight breeze generated by their waving hand motions.

I actually dread when people bring this shit up.
I think it's because it's impossible to determine if you know enough about philosophy to know when something is stupid/wrong, or if you actually don't know nearly enough to form a valid opinion on it.

Is this entire discussion some high level esoteric philosophy, or have we all just made a simple mistake and no one noticed? I can't tell and no one else can either.

Well are you gonna go out and learn and come back and educate us or are you saying we should avoid these discussions merely because we're ignorant?

Korra · October 13, 2015, 11:30:54 AM

Quote from: Prime Megaten on October 13, 2015, 12:23:46 AM

Quote from: Tsirist on October 13, 2015, 12:21:04 AM
Actually I sometimes wonder if it's possible to "exist" as a rock.
You can't exist as a rock, no.

🍁 Aria 🔮 · October 13, 2015, 11:54:44 AM

Quote from: Avatar on October 13, 2015, 11:30:54 AM

Quote from: Prime Megaten on October 13, 2015, 12:23:46 AM
Quote from: Tsirist on October 13, 2015, 12:21:04 AM
Actually I sometimes wonder if it's possible to "exist" as a rock.
You can't exist as a rock, no.

Can you believe that The Rock tried to convince everyone that his name is Dwayne Johnson? What a silly stage-name, he looks nothing like a "Dwayne".

Cadenza has moved on · October 13, 2015, 11:09:49 PM

Quote from: Tsirist on October 13, 2015, 10:44:11 AM

Quote from: Cadenza on October 13, 2015, 03:13:20 AM
Quote from: Deadtrap on October 13, 2015, 12:59:47 AM
Little bit off topic here, but does anybody ever get a sour taste in their mouths, so to speak, after taking a stroll through philosophy stuff like this? Particularily debates?

Seems like a colossal waste of energy for some reason, because usually a philosophy on something as vague and open ended as death is all up to how people interpret things and personal opinion.

It's like watching two people trying to knock each other over with the slight breeze generated by their waving hand motions.

I actually dread when people bring this shit up.
I think it's because it's impossible to determine if you know enough about philosophy to know when something is stupid/wrong, or if you actually don't know nearly enough to form a valid opinion on it.

Is this entire discussion some high level esoteric philosophy, or have we all just made a simple mistake and no one noticed? I can't tell and no one else can either.
Well are you gonna go out and learn and come back and educate us or are you saying we should avoid these discussions merely because we're ignorant?

Nah, these discussions are fun but you have to remember that you don't know what you don't know.

challengerX · October 14, 2015, 05:49:48 AM

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Doctor Doom · October 14, 2015, 11:07:55 AM

If there's an afterlife, lovely, I'll continue to exist.

If there isn't, well, I guess I'm past caring by that point.

Poll

Do you think death represents the total end of your experience?

Do you think death represents the total end of your experience?