Dealing with Dysthymia (and Associated Issues), the "Revolving Door"

🍁 Aria 🔮 · June 28, 2015, 10:39:34 PM

I would like to open with the following statement:

I haven't had a good night's rest in nearly four years.

Dysthymia; Chronic Depression. Generalized Anxiety Disorder. Like chronic aches and pains, It is hard to accurately describe the sensations without understating the problem or sounding over-dramatic. The most accurate way that I've found to describe it is like carrying a stack of boxes. Every little stressor, every major catastrophy; these are all "boxes" that (logically) should vary in sizes. But instead, every single one is equally large, like you ran out of little boxes and had to use a big one for every item instead. After awhile, you're going to stumble, or trip, or lose your balance in some way or another; and when this happens, you have to scramble to make sure nothing got damaged.

Even more stress. Every manageable problem, regardless of intensity, is a punch in the gut. The worst part is knowing that it shouldn't feel that way, knowing that it's illogical and that you're just being silly; because now, on top of feeling like everything has gone wrong, there's also the weight, the self-hate that comes with feeling that you're taking everything way out of proportion. You feel like shit. And since you know everything is "actually" fine, what do you tell everyone when they notice you're out of wack?

"I'm just tired." Just tired because you haven't slept well in years, because your chronic depression and anxieties are also the source of your insomnia. Stressing out over everything makes you take all of your problems out of proportion; taking all of your problems out of proportion leads to dropping self-esteem and makes you lethargic; low self-esteem, a lack of energy to do anything leads to sleeping without sleeping; not sleeping increases stress and irritability. It's a vicious cycle.

And yet, I never think that I should end it all. That'd just be silly, it's just a bad day. I'll sleep better tomorrow, soon my problems will be behind me. Fooling yourself with delusions of a better time, and laughing it off is the easiest way to deal with the problem, but is it really the best way? Medication's fine and dandy, but not everyone has the time or money to flip through the catalog of prescriptions the doctor has to sell to meet his monthly quota. So really, what else can you do besides grit your teeth and take the pains in stride?

Verbatim · June 28, 2015, 11:07:35 PM

Quote from: Prime Gestalt on June 28, 2015, 10:39:34 PM

Fooling yourself with delusions of a better time, and laughing it off is the easiest way to deal with the problem, but is it really the best way?

I know you don't like when I do this, but I'm just going to try and compare this with my own experiences that I think are remotely similar. People are always telling me that, because of my pessimism, I'm setting myself up not for disappointment, but... I'm sort of inadvertently creating a self-fulfilling prophecy. Things only end up sucking the worst when I convince myself that it's going to suck. And in some ways, I think that's true. My own poor attitude about a situation often results in the situation being substantially worse than if I hadn't told myself, "This is gonna suck. I know this is gonna suck."

And I know it's more of an "attitude" problem for you, of course, but do you think that... when you type things like, "fooling yourself," "delusions," "laughing it off"... Do you think you might be setting yourself up for a negative experience? Because I'd like to tell you that those thoughts are not what I'd call delusional. That, above of all, is what bothers me the most. If you want to be "happier," you have to be... I don't want to say "open-minded", because that's not what I mean, but it's the closest thing. Because I know you're obviously open-minded, and you are willing, but...

Clearly, there's something missing, and I can't really... put my finger on it. Maybe motivation.

Like, do you feel like you're "getting enough" out of your life?
Do you not foresee yourself "getting enough" in the future?

Verbatim · June 28, 2015, 11:15:39 PM

And, for the record, if I ever use the word "think" in these types of discussions, I almost always mean "feel". Depression is chiefly a feeling thing, not a thinking thing, and that's an important distinction to make. Because, of course, you can think that everything's fine, but not feel the same way. What you know in your brain is not always what you know in your "heart".

Still, the words are often used interchangeably in casual conversation, so I just thought I'd clarify that right away...

This is the hardest thing to discuss in the world, so, it's important to be crystal clear with what you mean...

🍁 Aria 🔮 · June 28, 2015, 11:41:47 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on June 28, 2015, 11:07:35 PM

Quote from: Prime Gestalt on June 28, 2015, 10:39:34 PM
Fooling yourself with delusions of a better time, and laughing it off is the easiest way to deal with the problem, but is it really the best way?
I know you don't like when I do this, but I'm just going to try and compare this with my own experiences that I think are remotely similar. People are always telling me that, because of my pessimism, I'm setting myself up not for disappointment, but... I'm sort of inadvertently creating a self-fulfilling prophecy. Things only end up sucking the worst when I convince myself that it's going to suck. And in some ways, I think that's true. My own poor attitude about a situation often results in the situation being substantially worse than if I hadn't told myself, "This is gonna suck. I know this is gonna suck."

And I know it's more of an "attitude" problem for you, of course, but do you think that... when you type things like, "fooling yourself," "delusions," "laughing it off"... Do you think you might be setting yourself up for a negative experience? Because I'd like to tell you that those thoughts are not what I'd call delusional. That, above of all, is what bothers me the most. If you want to be "happier," you have to be... I don't want to say "open-minded", because that's not what I mean, but it's the closest thing. Because I know you're obviously open-minded, and you are willing, but...

Clearly, there's something missing, and I can't really... put my finger on it. Maybe motivation.

Like, do you feel like you're "getting enough" out of your life?
Do you not foresee yourself "getting enough" in the future?

I'm only using phrases like that because I'm in a sort of low place on the swing right now. It could be just projection, but I've always kind of lived under this assumption that everybody lies to themselves to keep themselves going; accepting the hard truths is a permanent stop. Laughing, making jokes, it's just another way to cope I guess; if I don't laugh, then I'm going to cry. And laughing is a lot easier to deal with, especially in a public setting.

Motivation is a sort of finite resource when you're never rested. It's like raking the coals for an entire night because you know that you don't have any more logs to throw on the fire. You work with what little you have.

big sponge · June 28, 2015, 11:54:19 PM

Quote from: Mr Psychologist on June 28, 2015, 07:55:20 PM

Using the Psy signal to bring in our resident psychologist.

Verbatim · June 29, 2015, 12:00:19 AM

What makes it so difficult to discuss is that whatever bit of advice I may have, whatever I'm able to scrounge up in some effort to help, it always seems to get parried by, "well, that doesn't work, because my disorder prevents that," and... It really makes it seem insurmountable. It's kinda like role-playing with somebody who godmods (crude comparison, I know). But it just gets to the point where... I'm just at a loss for what you want to hear sometimes.

Perhaps what it boils down to is that I'm simply not depressed like you are. I don't have dysthymia--I have something more akin to MDD or something. I never exactly thought they'd be terribly different, but I guess they are. It just frustrates me that I can't really help you at all.

Have you tried speaking to other dysthymic people? What do they have to say?

🍁 Aria 🔮 · June 29, 2015, 12:09:51 AM

Quote from: Verbatim on June 29, 2015, 12:00:19 AM

I'm just at a loss for what you want to hear sometimes.

People aren't always looking for magic words that will heal them. Sometimes just chatting, venting the frustrations helps an inkling.

Verbatim · June 29, 2015, 12:26:50 AM

Quote from: Prime Gestalt on June 29, 2015, 12:09:51 AM

Quote from: Verbatim on June 29, 2015, 12:00:19 AM
I'm just at a loss for what you want to hear sometimes.
People aren't always looking for magic words that will heal them. Sometimes just chatting, venting the frustrations helps an inkling.

Fair enough. I guess my question still stands, then--if you know any others with dysthymia, have you observed how they cope with it, and is there anything that they do that you haven't tried or considered trying yet? I would imagine that medication is the most popular method, but as you mentioned, it can be expensive--not to mention, potentially dangerous.

🍁 Aria 🔮 · June 29, 2015, 12:29:58 AM

Quote from: Verbatim on June 29, 2015, 12:26:50 AM

Quote from: Prime Gestalt on June 29, 2015, 12:09:51 AM
Quote from: Verbatim on June 29, 2015, 12:00:19 AM
I'm just at a loss for what you want to hear sometimes.
People aren't always looking for magic words that will heal them. Sometimes just chatting, venting the frustrations helps an inkling.
Fair enough. I guess my question still stands, then--if you know any others with dysthymia, have you observed how they cope with it, and is there anything that they do that you haven't tried or considered trying yet? I would imagine that medication is the most popular method, but as you mentioned, it can be expensive--not to mention, potentially dangerous.

Well, that's the point of the thread. I know a few people here suffer similarly, most for better reasons than myself. In real life, I have no luck (or is it lucky?) in knowing others with Dysthymia.

And I've already been down the medication route; those results ranged from greater lethargy to major depression and more frequent panic attacks.

Verbatim · June 29, 2015, 12:41:39 AM

Quote from: Prime Gestalt on June 29, 2015, 12:29:58 AM

Well, that's the point of the thread. I know a few people here suffer similarly, most for better reasons than myself. In real life, I have no luck (or is it lucky?) in knowing others with Dysthymia.

And I've already been down the medication route; those results ranged from greater lethargy to major depression and more frequent panic attacks.

Yeah, generally speaking, I don't condone medication at all. Drugs... psychiatry is just kind of a complete mess, and I always thought so. I guess it's great that it works for some people, but I mean, when your advertisements are 20% product, 80% listing off a bunch of crippling side-effects that may come as a result of using said product... There's a problem with your industry.

I know you're rather short on free time these days, but have you ever considered, like... trying new things? Just to, like... either break the monotony, or break away from a more routine lifestyle?

Cindy · June 29, 2015, 01:07:47 AM

Huh...

This post was too familiar. I'mma have to book a date with the psychologist, now.

Verbatim · June 29, 2015, 01:40:06 AM

And by "new things", I'm of course talking mostly about "active" or... maybe outdoorsy stuff. Take walks, chill out at a park, visit new places, meet new people... Join a club?... Maybe with friends, maybe alone--whatever's more comfortable.

Maybe even take a break from electronics for awhile--specifically the Internet.

Do you still work out?
And how is your diet? Are you eating well?

Those might seem like asinine questions, but I think they're important.

eggsalad · June 29, 2015, 02:14:38 AM

Quote from: Prime Gestalt on June 28, 2015, 10:39:34 PM

And yet, I never think that I should end it all. That'd just be silly, it's just a bad day. I'll sleep better tomorrow, soon my problems will be behind me. Fooling yourself with delusions of a better time, and laughing it off is the easiest way to deal with the problem, but is it really the best way? Medication's fine and dandy, but not everyone has the time or money to flip through the catalog of prescriptions the doctor has to sell to meet his monthly quota. So really, what else can you do besides grit your teeth and take the pains in stride?

Kill yourself? That's all I could think of back when things were worse, to the point the thought had become an impulsive mental tic. If nothing ever felt satisfying at the end of the day, from getting drunk like a bum to doing volunteer work, what was the point in enduring the natural miseries of life? I enjoyed the unconsciousness of sleep more than living, why not take it permanently? What value does something as rare as a life have if it's not ever felt fulfilling? To be honest I never knew the answer to those questions and I still don't. If my emotions bring me to decide it's time to kill myself, I don't have much in the way of reason to stop myself.

Sorry I didn't have anything to contribute, just venting too.

Cindy · June 29, 2015, 02:27:03 AM

I think about killing myself, sometimes.

Thank god I've got a close family and good friends. I'd never really give it serious thought because I know how much it'd impact all of them.

Mr. Psychologist · June 29, 2015, 06:36:08 AM

Hmm, well I'll see if I can suggest anything of use but I'm not as familiar with dysthymia as I'd like to be and it says a lot that even the clinical textbook contains little more than a highlight box describing it with the DSM entry. I think what the book was implying was that it should be approached in a similar way to MDD in terms of treatment but that it has to be adapted for the differences between the two.

Which means that there are two, maybe three things (in general) that can improve things or possibly resolve them to some extent. With an acute case of MDD (and associated depressive disorders) the treatment can be temporary medication in conjunction with psychological therapy, I think there is a fancy term for the combined approach but I can't quite remember it. So the patient is prescribed a bandage (meds) and then is sent to A&E (waiting lists) and finally gets seen and sorted out by a doctor, counsellor or psych. So that's the typical two treatments, meds and psych-therapy but the third is usually more of an extraneous one that comes about by an improvement in circumstances and environment.

But for something like dysthymia I don't think that's the typical/best approach as it's more of a chronic issue than an acute one as I'm sure you know <.<
Environmental changes can't always be effected, so that's mostly something for the backburner imo. Which leaves therapy and medication, of the two I'd probably recommend therapy of some kind rather than medication in this sort of situation because with dysthymia being something that as far as I know doesn't simply go away after 6 months (the diagnostics criteria kind of makes that clear) so you'd be looking at long term medication for that and eh, that's not really great for anyone especially when it's an extortionate price and can come with some unpleasant side effects.

So my rambling long-way-round suggestion is to look for a psychologist, psychiatrist or counsellor of some kind that you can visit every so often so that they can help you work through it and I think if they subscribe to the better psychological approaches rather than >freud nonsense they can probably teach you some CBT techniques that may make daily living slightly less of a struggle <.<

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And the usual disclaimer that I have to include with stuff like this
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I'm not a psychologist, I'm not yet training to become one. I'm a psychology student halfway through the undergraduate. I've been through enough of the mental health systems firsthand and secondhand to have a decent idea of how this sort of thing works but as always take a professional opinion over the ramblings of sumgai on the internet.

Desty · June 29, 2015, 07:40:37 AM

Why not have a partner with you at most times that you can divide the issues with? It's not a solution, but I don't think that one can resolve your situation by applying a practice that hasn't really worked so far (judging by your post that is). Psychology can only go so far, and in the end talking about issues doesn't always help, and medication can act as an empowering stimulant, but if the user doesn't do anything with that power, it becomes obsolete.

A partner would support you if you ever needed moral support, and you'd have someone you could trust with certain issues. This partner needs to be reliable, and ready to take on some of your problems, like dealing with taxes.

If my post was a hit and miss, then I am right in that psychology doesn't work all the time, because humans can only apply what they know, and psychologists try to gather as much data as they can before applying what they think would be good.