Quote from: Maverick on March 03, 2015, 11:12:04 PMQuote from: [Raiden] Snake on March 03, 2015, 10:39:11 PMQuote from: Maverick on March 03, 2015, 10:34:08 PMWhat if I considered myself a theist but did not follow any religion?I would ask you why you were a theist.Probably mostly because I was raised to believe in a deity, so it was hard for me to abandon my beliefs. While over the years I've come to the conclusion that organized religion is ridiculous, I've never seen much compelling evidence against the possibility of a deity/deities existing. I suppose I would more accurately be described as an agnostic.In any case, hypothetically, I think that a deity would be very different than how most people see their God.Sorry, I thought I would have something more thought-provoking to say but I'm drawing blanks.You bringing up your childhood clears a lot of things up. I still have to remind myself that there is no evidence for god from time to time because it was programmed into me as a kid.I don't really think you can identify just as agnostic. You're either a thiestic-agnostic (IE, I don't know whether god exists or not but I'm pretty sure he does because Pascal's wager [and even this is a bit of a stretch. belief isn't a choice, contrary to popular belief]) and atheistic-agnostism (me), that believes that there is no evidence for god, but we can't know for sure.
Quote from: [Raiden] Snake on March 03, 2015, 10:39:11 PMQuote from: Maverick on March 03, 2015, 10:34:08 PMWhat if I considered myself a theist but did not follow any religion?I would ask you why you were a theist.Probably mostly because I was raised to believe in a deity, so it was hard for me to abandon my beliefs. While over the years I've come to the conclusion that organized religion is ridiculous, I've never seen much compelling evidence against the possibility of a deity/deities existing. I suppose I would more accurately be described as an agnostic.In any case, hypothetically, I think that a deity would be very different than how most people see their God.Sorry, I thought I would have something more thought-provoking to say but I'm drawing blanks.
Quote from: Maverick on March 03, 2015, 10:34:08 PMWhat if I considered myself a theist but did not follow any religion?I would ask you why you were a theist.
What if I considered myself a theist but did not follow any religion?
Quote from: [Raiden] Snake on March 03, 2015, 11:15:05 PMQuote from: Korra Valentine on March 03, 2015, 11:11:45 PMQuote from: [Raiden] Snake on March 03, 2015, 11:01:44 PMQuote from: Korra Valentine on March 03, 2015, 10:51:23 PMI tend to see that there is a higher power, perhaps its some cosmic creator or the universe itself or something. I don't know. And that's the point, I don't know and I'm not sure.That doesn't make you an agnostic.In Richard Dawkin's "The God Delusion", he comes up with a 7-point system for determining your religious beliefs. 1 being, "yes, there is a god", and 7 being "I am absolutely sure there is no god".On that list, he scores himself a 6, because he cannot prove a negative, and cannot be sure that a god really doesn't exist. In this sense, he is too, an agnostic.Where do you fit on that scale?Quote(What do you mean I'm not? )Because you either believe there is a god or there isn't. There is no middleground.I guess I'm 4 or 5.So you're saying that I have to be part of an extreme?No, I'm saying that you either believe in a god or you don't. It's up to you, either way, I still like you as a person.You can say "I don't actively know there is a god, but I know there is no evidence for one so I will live my life accordingly", which is what I do. But you're still an atheist because you fall under the presumption that there isn't one.But I do think there's one...its just that I don't believe in the Church's god.
Quote from: Korra Valentine on March 03, 2015, 11:11:45 PMQuote from: [Raiden] Snake on March 03, 2015, 11:01:44 PMQuote from: Korra Valentine on March 03, 2015, 10:51:23 PMI tend to see that there is a higher power, perhaps its some cosmic creator or the universe itself or something. I don't know. And that's the point, I don't know and I'm not sure.That doesn't make you an agnostic.In Richard Dawkin's "The God Delusion", he comes up with a 7-point system for determining your religious beliefs. 1 being, "yes, there is a god", and 7 being "I am absolutely sure there is no god".On that list, he scores himself a 6, because he cannot prove a negative, and cannot be sure that a god really doesn't exist. In this sense, he is too, an agnostic.Where do you fit on that scale?Quote(What do you mean I'm not? )Because you either believe there is a god or there isn't. There is no middleground.I guess I'm 4 or 5.So you're saying that I have to be part of an extreme?No, I'm saying that you either believe in a god or you don't. It's up to you, either way, I still like you as a person.You can say "I don't actively know there is a god, but I know there is no evidence for one so I will live my life accordingly", which is what I do. But you're still an atheist because you fall under the presumption that there isn't one.
Quote from: [Raiden] Snake on March 03, 2015, 11:01:44 PMQuote from: Korra Valentine on March 03, 2015, 10:51:23 PMI tend to see that there is a higher power, perhaps its some cosmic creator or the universe itself or something. I don't know. And that's the point, I don't know and I'm not sure.That doesn't make you an agnostic.In Richard Dawkin's "The God Delusion", he comes up with a 7-point system for determining your religious beliefs. 1 being, "yes, there is a god", and 7 being "I am absolutely sure there is no god".On that list, he scores himself a 6, because he cannot prove a negative, and cannot be sure that a god really doesn't exist. In this sense, he is too, an agnostic.Where do you fit on that scale?Quote(What do you mean I'm not? )Because you either believe there is a god or there isn't. There is no middleground.I guess I'm 4 or 5.So you're saying that I have to be part of an extreme?
Quote from: Korra Valentine on March 03, 2015, 10:51:23 PMI tend to see that there is a higher power, perhaps its some cosmic creator or the universe itself or something. I don't know. And that's the point, I don't know and I'm not sure.That doesn't make you an agnostic.In Richard Dawkin's "The God Delusion", he comes up with a 7-point system for determining your religious beliefs. 1 being, "yes, there is a god", and 7 being "I am absolutely sure there is no god".On that list, he scores himself a 6, because he cannot prove a negative, and cannot be sure that a god really doesn't exist. In this sense, he is too, an agnostic.Where do you fit on that scale?Quote(What do you mean I'm not? )Because you either believe there is a god or there isn't. There is no middleground.
I tend to see that there is a higher power, perhaps its some cosmic creator or the universe itself or something. I don't know. And that's the point, I don't know and I'm not sure.
(What do you mean I'm not? )
Quote from: [Raiden] Snake on March 03, 2015, 11:17:23 PMQuote from: Maverick on March 03, 2015, 11:12:04 PMQuote from: [Raiden] Snake on March 03, 2015, 10:39:11 PMQuote from: Maverick on March 03, 2015, 10:34:08 PMWhat if I considered myself a theist but did not follow any religion?I would ask you why you were a theist.Probably mostly because I was raised to believe in a deity, so it was hard for me to abandon my beliefs. While over the years I've come to the conclusion that organized religion is ridiculous, I've never seen much compelling evidence against the possibility of a deity/deities existing. I suppose I would more accurately be described as an agnostic.In any case, hypothetically, I think that a deity would be very different than how most people see their God.Sorry, I thought I would have something more thought-provoking to say but I'm drawing blanks.You bringing up your childhood clears a lot of things up. I still have to remind myself that there is no evidence for god from time to time because it was programmed into me as a kid.I don't really think you can identify just as agnostic. You're either a thiestic-agnostic (IE, I don't know whether god exists or not but I'm pretty sure he does because Pascal's wager [and even this is a bit of a stretch. belief isn't a choice, contrary to popular belief]) and atheistic-agnostism (me), that believes that there is no evidence for god, but we can't know for sure.Yea this part a lot. It kinda just gets to you after a certain amount of hearing about it. Just gotta pinch yourself sometimes.
Quote from: Korra Valentine on March 03, 2015, 11:18:00 PMQuote from: [Raiden] Snake on March 03, 2015, 11:15:05 PMQuote from: Korra Valentine on March 03, 2015, 11:11:45 PMQuote from: [Raiden] Snake on March 03, 2015, 11:01:44 PMQuote from: Korra Valentine on March 03, 2015, 10:51:23 PMI tend to see that there is a higher power, perhaps its some cosmic creator or the universe itself or something. I don't know. And that's the point, I don't know and I'm not sure.That doesn't make you an agnostic.In Richard Dawkin's "The God Delusion", he comes up with a 7-point system for determining your religious beliefs. 1 being, "yes, there is a god", and 7 being "I am absolutely sure there is no god".On that list, he scores himself a 6, because he cannot prove a negative, and cannot be sure that a god really doesn't exist. In this sense, he is too, an agnostic.Where do you fit on that scale?Quote(What do you mean I'm not? )Because you either believe there is a god or there isn't. There is no middleground.I guess I'm 4 or 5.So you're saying that I have to be part of an extreme?No, I'm saying that you either believe in a god or you don't. It's up to you, either way, I still like you as a person.You can say "I don't actively know there is a god, but I know there is no evidence for one so I will live my life accordingly", which is what I do. But you're still an atheist because you fall under the presumption that there isn't one.But I do think there's one...its just that I don't believe in the Church's god.That makes you a theist, then.And all I'm asking you to do is justify it to me.
Quote from: TBlocks on March 03, 2015, 11:19:29 PMQuote from: [Raiden] Snake on March 03, 2015, 11:17:23 PMQuote from: Maverick on March 03, 2015, 11:12:04 PMQuote from: [Raiden] Snake on March 03, 2015, 10:39:11 PMQuote from: Maverick on March 03, 2015, 10:34:08 PMWhat if I considered myself a theist but did not follow any religion?I would ask you why you were a theist.Probably mostly because I was raised to believe in a deity, so it was hard for me to abandon my beliefs. While over the years I've come to the conclusion that organized religion is ridiculous, I've never seen much compelling evidence against the possibility of a deity/deities existing. I suppose I would more accurately be described as an agnostic.In any case, hypothetically, I think that a deity would be very different than how most people see their God.Sorry, I thought I would have something more thought-provoking to say but I'm drawing blanks.You bringing up your childhood clears a lot of things up. I still have to remind myself that there is no evidence for god from time to time because it was programmed into me as a kid.I don't really think you can identify just as agnostic. You're either a thiestic-agnostic (IE, I don't know whether god exists or not but I'm pretty sure he does because Pascal's wager [and even this is a bit of a stretch. belief isn't a choice, contrary to popular belief]) and atheistic-agnostism (me), that believes that there is no evidence for god, but we can't know for sure.Yea this part a lot. It kinda just gets to you after a certain amount of hearing about it. Just gotta pinch yourself sometimes.Over the first couple of years, it was pretty bad. Anytime I would get scared or need something, I'd turn to "god".Now it's not really even a thought.I just wish people would have some evidence for their beliefs. It irks me when someone believes something baselessly. I mean, if you are an advocate for something, you should be able to tell me why, right? Everything i do, every action I take, I have a reason. If I don't, I find out what my reason should be. If I can't find that out, I don't do it.
Dude. I was at Matt's house and we had a 4 hour long discussion about how he's "religious" or whatever.The only justification he could come up with was that he saw his aunt rise off the table when he was a kid.Meanwhile, he had just explained to me that if God had revealed himself to me, that would interfere with my "free will". Why was it okay for God to show Matt and not me?Some people, man.
Quote from: TBlocks on March 03, 2015, 11:25:52 PMDude. I was at Matt's house and we had a 4 hour long discussion about how he's "religious" or whatever.The only justification he could come up with was that he saw his aunt rise off the table when he was a kid.Meanwhile, he had just explained to me that if God had revealed himself to me, that would interfere with my "free will". Why was it okay for God to show Matt and not me?Some people, man.You haven't MLG prayed hard enough.
Hmm...I guess that I think that the universe didn't just come to happen at random.
Quote from: TBlocks on March 03, 2015, 11:25:52 PMDude. I was at Matt's house and we had a 4 hour long discussion about how he's "religious" or whatever.The only justification he could come up with was that he saw his aunt rise off the table when he was a kid.Meanwhile, he had just explained to me that if God had revealed himself to me, that would interfere with my "free will". Why was it okay for God to show Matt and not me?Some people, man.4 hours? Jeez... That must have been a marathon. >.> Good on you though.As for his justification that is some of the silliest reason I've heard to date. That literally could have been anything explainable...
Quote from: [Raiden] Snake on March 03, 2015, 11:17:23 PMQuote from: Maverick on March 03, 2015, 11:12:04 PMQuote from: [Raiden] Snake on March 03, 2015, 10:39:11 PMQuote from: Maverick on March 03, 2015, 10:34:08 PMWhat if I considered myself a theist but did not follow any religion?I would ask you why you were a theist.Probably mostly because I was raised to believe in a deity, so it was hard for me to abandon my beliefs. While over the years I've come to the conclusion that organized religion is ridiculous, I've never seen much compelling evidence against the possibility of a deity/deities existing. I suppose I would more accurately be described as an agnostic.In any case, hypothetically, I think that a deity would be very different than how most people see their God.Sorry, I thought I would have something more thought-provoking to say but I'm drawing blanks.You bringing up your childhood clears a lot of things up. I still have to remind myself that there is no evidence for god from time to time because it was programmed into me as a kid.I don't really think you can identify just as agnostic. You're either a thiestic-agnostic (IE, I don't know whether god exists or not but I'm pretty sure he does because Pascal's wager [and even this is a bit of a stretch. belief isn't a choice, contrary to popular belief]) and atheistic-agnostism (me), that believes that there is no evidence for god, but we can't know for sure.Well I think I should clarify that I don't believe in hell and I don't think that an omnipotent god would care whether or not their creations believed in them so therefore I live a completely secular lifestyle...but I don't know if that should classify me as an atheist.
4 hours? Jeez... That must have been a marathon. >.> Good on you though.As for his justification that is some of the silliest reason I've heard to date. That literally could have been anything explainable...
Quote from: TBlocks on March 03, 2015, 11:32:00 PM4 hours? Jeez... That must have been a marathon. >.> Good on you though.As for his justification that is some of the silliest reason I've heard to date. That literally could have been anything explainable...Yeah. It went from sexuality to anti-natalism to religious beliefs. Good time, though. I enjoy that sort of thing, you know that. I'm much better at arguing in person, IMO.Well, I mean, it's not that "science" can explain how his aunt floated off the ground that makes me not believe him. It's that I don't believe that happened at all.
Quote from: Maverick on March 03, 2015, 11:30:45 PMQuote from: [Raiden] Snake on March 03, 2015, 11:17:23 PMQuote from: Maverick on March 03, 2015, 11:12:04 PMQuote from: [Raiden] Snake on March 03, 2015, 10:39:11 PMQuote from: Maverick on March 03, 2015, 10:34:08 PMWhat if I considered myself a theist but did not follow any religion?I would ask you why you were a theist.Probably mostly because I was raised to believe in a deity, so it was hard for me to abandon my beliefs. While over the years I've come to the conclusion that organized religion is ridiculous, I've never seen much compelling evidence against the possibility of a deity/deities existing. I suppose I would more accurately be described as an agnostic.In any case, hypothetically, I think that a deity would be very different than how most people see their God.Sorry, I thought I would have something more thought-provoking to say but I'm drawing blanks.You bringing up your childhood clears a lot of things up. I still have to remind myself that there is no evidence for god from time to time because it was programmed into me as a kid.I don't really think you can identify just as agnostic. You're either a thiestic-agnostic (IE, I don't know whether god exists or not but I'm pretty sure he does because Pascal's wager [and even this is a bit of a stretch. belief isn't a choice, contrary to popular belief]) and atheistic-agnostism (me), that believes that there is no evidence for god, but we can't know for sure.Well I think I should clarify that I don't believe in hell and I don't think that an omnipotent god would care whether or not their creations believed in them so therefore I live a completely secular lifestyle...but I don't know if that should classify me as an atheist.It's simple. If you believe in a god/creator/entity that sparked existence, you're a theist. If you don't, you're an atheist.Either way, I just want people to be able to backup their beliefs. You can be an advocate for child rape in my books if you can justify it efficiently.
Quote from: [Raiden] Snake on March 03, 2015, 11:33:07 PMQuote from: Maverick on March 03, 2015, 11:30:45 PMQuote from: [Raiden] Snake on March 03, 2015, 11:17:23 PMQuote from: Maverick on March 03, 2015, 11:12:04 PMQuote from: [Raiden] Snake on March 03, 2015, 10:39:11 PMQuote from: Maverick on March 03, 2015, 10:34:08 PMWhat if I considered myself a theist but did not follow any religion?I would ask you why you were a theist.Probably mostly because I was raised to believe in a deity, so it was hard for me to abandon my beliefs. While over the years I've come to the conclusion that organized religion is ridiculous, I've never seen much compelling evidence against the possibility of a deity/deities existing. I suppose I would more accurately be described as an agnostic.In any case, hypothetically, I think that a deity would be very different than how most people see their God.Sorry, I thought I would have something more thought-provoking to say but I'm drawing blanks.You bringing up your childhood clears a lot of things up. I still have to remind myself that there is no evidence for god from time to time because it was programmed into me as a kid.I don't really think you can identify just as agnostic. You're either a thiestic-agnostic (IE, I don't know whether god exists or not but I'm pretty sure he does because Pascal's wager [and even this is a bit of a stretch. belief isn't a choice, contrary to popular belief]) and atheistic-agnostism (me), that believes that there is no evidence for god, but we can't know for sure.Well I think I should clarify that I don't believe in hell and I don't think that an omnipotent god would care whether or not their creations believed in them so therefore I live a completely secular lifestyle...but I don't know if that should classify me as an atheist.It's simple. If you believe in a god/creator/entity that sparked existence, you're a theist. If you don't, you're an atheist.Either way, I just want people to be able to backup their beliefs. You can be an advocate for child rape in my books if you can justify it efficiently.I could not pick either with any certainty.
So me giving you 1 million dollars is an act of god? It's unexpected and it helps you.
So why believe it at all? Baseless belief is illogical.
This makes no sense. If someone is given evidence that not all muslims are bad people, yet the still maintain the mentality that "all muslims are bad people" they are objectively wrong and, to be frank, stupid.
Of course. Given that you can justify your beliefs with evidence, I have no problem with you holding a different belief than I do.The fact of the matter is that religious folk cannot provide any evidence whatsoever to justify their position.
Which I've already conceited to. If you've only had poor-tasting candy in your life, then you are justified in your belief that all candy tastes bad. But as soon as I "show you the evidence" (IE give you a piece of candy that you think tastes good), and you don't change your beliefs, we have a problem.
Except that under no circumstance is believing in a deity justifiable without evidence. It's illogical.
the one true God is Doctor Doom and we should all be worshiping him.
Quote from: Korra Valentine on March 03, 2015, 11:24:39 PMQuote from: [Raiden] Snake on March 03, 2015, 11:20:42 PMQuote from: Korra Valentine on March 03, 2015, 11:18:00 PMQuote from: [Raiden] Snake on March 03, 2015, 11:15:05 PMQuote from: Korra Valentine on March 03, 2015, 11:11:45 PMQuote from: [Raiden] Snake on March 03, 2015, 11:01:44 PMQuote from: Korra Valentine on March 03, 2015, 10:51:23 PMI tend to see that there is a higher power, perhaps its some cosmic creator or the universe itself or something. I don't know. And that's the point, I don't know and I'm not sure.That doesn't make you an agnostic.In Richard Dawkin's "The God Delusion", he comes up with a 7-point system for determining your religious beliefs. 1 being, "yes, there is a god", and 7 being "I am absolutely sure there is no god".On that list, he scores himself a 6, because he cannot prove a negative, and cannot be sure that a god really doesn't exist. In this sense, he is too, an agnostic.Where do you fit on that scale?Quote(What do you mean I'm not? )Because you either believe there is a god or there isn't. There is no middleground.I guess I'm 4 or 5.So you're saying that I have to be part of an extreme?No, I'm saying that you either believe in a god or you don't. It's up to you, either way, I still like you as a person.You can say "I don't actively know there is a god, but I know there is no evidence for one so I will live my life accordingly", which is what I do. But you're still an atheist because you fall under the presumption that there isn't one.But I do think there's one...its just that I don't believe in the Church's god.That makes you a theist, then.And all I'm asking you to do is justify it to me.Hmm...I guess that I think that the universe didn't just come to happen at random.Think of erosion and formations of rivers as a comparison. Nobody created the river, it just happened. It's not random, a series of things happened which created what we see and are today. I don't understand how people think there has to be a creator when you can see things in nature happen solely due to different natural effects. We used to attribute the wind and water and fire and other elements to individual gods, and now we look at that as "mythology". That's what the god of Christianity, Islam, and Judaism is, mythology. A poor explanation created by people to try and explain how everything came to be, and used religion itself to control other people. We don't question how a river forms because we know how it forms. We don't attribute the formation to a river god. Why attribute the universe to a god? It's the exact same ignorance, just on a much larger scale.
Quote from: [Raiden] Snake on March 03, 2015, 11:20:42 PMQuote from: Korra Valentine on March 03, 2015, 11:18:00 PMQuote from: [Raiden] Snake on March 03, 2015, 11:15:05 PMQuote from: Korra Valentine on March 03, 2015, 11:11:45 PMQuote from: [Raiden] Snake on March 03, 2015, 11:01:44 PMQuote from: Korra Valentine on March 03, 2015, 10:51:23 PMI tend to see that there is a higher power, perhaps its some cosmic creator or the universe itself or something. I don't know. And that's the point, I don't know and I'm not sure.That doesn't make you an agnostic.In Richard Dawkin's "The God Delusion", he comes up with a 7-point system for determining your religious beliefs. 1 being, "yes, there is a god", and 7 being "I am absolutely sure there is no god".On that list, he scores himself a 6, because he cannot prove a negative, and cannot be sure that a god really doesn't exist. In this sense, he is too, an agnostic.Where do you fit on that scale?Quote(What do you mean I'm not? )Because you either believe there is a god or there isn't. There is no middleground.I guess I'm 4 or 5.So you're saying that I have to be part of an extreme?No, I'm saying that you either believe in a god or you don't. It's up to you, either way, I still like you as a person.You can say "I don't actively know there is a god, but I know there is no evidence for one so I will live my life accordingly", which is what I do. But you're still an atheist because you fall under the presumption that there isn't one.But I do think there's one...its just that I don't believe in the Church's god.That makes you a theist, then.And all I'm asking you to do is justify it to me.Hmm...I guess that I think that the universe didn't just come to happen at random.
OP, convince me that the core of Germanic paganism isn't right and that there aren't 9 known multiverses tied together by what the unknowing ancient Europeans called the world tree or Yggdrasil.
Depends on how it's perceived by the recipient, but yeah random acts of charity would probably qualify for most, I think.
Oh boy, it's not baseless,
Okay, are you even Human? Do you understand people are not robots? Do you understand that adding 0 to -10 still equals -10?
That evidence would be their entire life story and their interpretation
Claiming it's illogical because they lived a different life than you is foolish.
Where's your evidence God doesn't exist then?
Can you justify/explain/prove your religious beliefs?
