Quote from: Cadenza on January 19, 2016, 05:31:17 PM

Do you see the problem yet?

No, because you should be able to argue to me why I should think a certain way.

That's how arguments work.

No that's not how the work at all, that's completely wrong.

You start from propositions, deduce implications of those propositions, then evaluate the implications; then people question your propositions, deductions, and implications, potentially by introducing their own propositions, deductions, and implications, then you get your turn and so on.

As i currently stands we're still stuck on the "tell us what you think" stage, and you're refusing to say so.

If you don't care how I feel about alcohol or people who consume alcohol, why are you engaging with me?

Because you were talking to kupo as if your begging the question was actually a watertight argument, when infact it isn't an argument at all.

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Nobody said need, I'm claiming that such benefits to alcohol exist, you're claiming they don't.

No, I never claimed that. I'm claiming that it doesn't matter. All "benefits" of alcohol are superfluous and unneeded.

If you don't need it, you shouldn't do it. That's the philosophy.

Ahem:

Yes. Obviously.

The difference is that you get something of minor value in return. You get NOTHING of value in return when you drink.

First there's no benefit to alcohol, now there are but they're superfluous, make up your damn mind and say what is you're actually thinking, nobody can think for you.

All I have fucking done in this thread is explain to you people PRECISELY what I think about alcohol consumption.

And then presented those thoughts as fact and refused to present anything else supporting your case.

If I came across as dismissive, it was because you took any further challenge or questioning of your logic as some sort of total rebuttal as opposed to, I don't know, someone seeking further evidence that supports what you said?

'This is all the proof you need, because it's right because I said so' comes across as childish and unable to handle the fact that people aren't simply left enlightened in your wake.

Quote from: Fuddy Duddy II on January 19, 2016, 05:51:42 PM

All I have fucking done in this thread is explain to you people PRECISELY what I think about alcohol consumption.

And then presented those thoughts as fact and refused to present anything else supporting your case.

If I came across as dismissive, it was because you took any further challenge or questioning of your logic as some sort of total rebuttal as opposed to, I don't know, seeking further evidence?

I don't understand what further evidence you need.

So do it.

And become suicidally depressed? No thanks.

Do you?

Yes.

And why is it ok for you to be "addicted" to video games, but it's not ok for people to be legitimately addicted to alcohol?

I NEVER said it was okay to be addicted to gaming.

It isn't.

It would make more sense to say that I'm addicted to dopamine--just like everybody else is.

Being addicted to anything is not okay.

Quote from: Fuddy Duddy II on January 19, 2016, 06:12:08 PM

Quote from: Kupoop on January 19, 2016, 06:00:26 PM

Quote from: Fuddy Duddy II on January 19, 2016, 05:51:42 PM

All I have fucking done in this thread is explain to you people PRECISELY what I think about alcohol consumption.

And then presented those thoughts as fact and refused to present anything else supporting your case.

If I came across as dismissive, it was because you took any further challenge or questioning of your logic as some sort of total rebuttal as opposed to, I don't know, seeking further evidence?

I don't understand what further evidence you need.

So instead of refusing to present more evidence, just present more evidence.

I don't understand what further evidence you need.

How can I give you further evidence if I don't even know what the fuck it is you're looking for?

Quote from: Cadenza on January 19, 2016, 05:46:56 PM

You start from propositions

"Alcohol shouldn't be consumed..."

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deduce implications of those propositions

"...because alcohol is a harmful substance."

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then evaluate the implications

"I disagree with that, because x."

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then people question your propositions, deductions, and implications, potentially by introducing their own propositions, deductions, and implications,

"Drinking alcohol may be harmful, but it's still okay, because x, y, and z.

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then you get your turn and so on.

"You're wrong; here are my counterarguments."

You see, that's what you should've been doing instead of asking loaded rhetoricals.

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As i currently stands we're still stuck on the "tell us what you think" stage, and you're refusing to say so.

All I have fucking done in this thread is explain to you people PRECISELY what I think about alcohol consumption.

Again the only reason I replied was because you kept quoting those meaningless " tel me what I'm thinking" questions. The only other argument I'm having here is he existence of benefits provided by alcohol, which has nothing to do with either of our opinions on it.

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Ahem:

Quote from: Fuddy Duddy II on January 19, 2016, 04:52:00 PM

Yes. Obviously.

The difference is that you get something of minor value in return. You get NOTHING of value in return when you drink.

Exactly. The social benefits achieved from getting drunk aren't anything of value.

You should be gregarious enough without alcohol.

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First there's no benefit to alcohol, now there are but they're superfluous

These are one in the same proposition.

If the benefits are superfluous, then there are no benefits.

Ehehe, when reading the sentence I read the "NOTHING" part and skipped over the "of value" part, which completely changes the meaning of the sentence. We both agree that the benefits exist, that's fine.

Now what isn't fine is that those benefits have no value, but again that depends on the specifics: Who are you with, what's the event, how much are you drinking, how do you normally socialize with these people, how do you socialize drunk...
Depending on the answer to these questions and others, the benefits may be minimal, huge, nothing at all, or harmful - it's not a question you can answer abstractly because human interactions isn't abstract.

kupo

stop

I need help

Quote from: DAS THE HALLS on January 19, 2016, 06:14:57 PM

kupo

stop

I need help

requesting ban

They were "tell me how you believe I should think" questions.

If you want to phrase it that way then you were asking people to strawman you and then use that strawman as a basis for your arguments, which doesn't even make sense.

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Ehehe, when reading the sentence I read the "NOTHING" part and skipped over the "of value" part, which completely changes the meaning of the sentence. We both agree that the benefits exist, that's fine.

Now what isn't fine is that those benefits have no value, but again that depends on the specifics: Who are you with, what's the event, how much are you drinking, how do you normally socialize with these people, how do you socialize drunk...
Depending on the answer to these questions and others, the benefits may be minimal, huge, nothing at all, or harmful - it's not a question you can answer abstractly because human interactions isn't abstract.

It doesn't depend on the specifics--no matter who you are, you should not need to drink alcohol in order to be social in public. Therefore, any and all "benefits" received from alcohol consumption are thus superfluous, and the harm of the substance far outweighs the benefits.

"need"
You're the one saying "need". I'm not at all saying you need alcohol to be social, I'm saying that benefits to drinking exist, but determining what they are requires more information than we have because it boils down to how people interact with people; the answer depends on the people.

If you want to phrase it that way then you were asking people to strawman you and then use that strawman as a basis for your arguments, which doesn't even make sense.

what

It literally just had to go like this.

"Explain to me why I should be okay with drinking alcohol."
"...This is why you should be okay with drinking alcohol."
"I don't agree, because..."

etc. etc. etc.

"need"
You're the one saying "need".

Yes, because it is the basis of my argument. If you don't need it, you shouldn't do it.

I frankly don't care about what the benefits "are." You don't need them.

"Here's my opinion, and if this isn't enough proof for you, too bad"

Is that clear enough?

No, because I still don't know precisely what you want from me. I've talked about why I think alcohol is bad for you, and I've given many common sense examples.

You're having trouble with the notion that doing things that are harmful to you is stupid. Most people don't need this sort of thing explained to them, because it's too fucking obvious.

What you're basically arguing for is apathy. Deep down, you realize how stupid drinking alcohol is--you just don't care, and you want me to give you a reason to care. But I can't.

Your shit life, your shit decisions. But don't pretend they're anything but shit decisions.

What did I create?

thats not how that works.

Keep drinking. You'll see.

You're a riot.