Women will eventually have to register for the draft if "true and pure equality" is to be realized in the U.S. military,
Quote from: LC on October 13, 2015, 11:15:00 PMHopefully this will get congress to actually do away with the draft.The military doesn't even want it in place so it doesn't even serve the institution it was implemented to.Liberal as I am, I'm all for compulsory military service for everyone at 18.I believe the rich and powerful would be less likely to wage war if their kids could be sent
Hopefully this will get congress to actually do away with the draft.The military doesn't even want it in place so it doesn't even serve the institution it was implemented to.
Isn't the purpose of having a defense force to defend your country? you need women for your country to continue existing, so sending them off to die rather defeats the point, no?
Quote from: LC on October 14, 2015, 01:08:27 AMQuote from: Kernel Kraut on October 14, 2015, 12:50:15 AMQuote from: LC on October 14, 2015, 12:45:10 AMQuote from: Kernel Kraut on October 14, 2015, 12:41:15 AMQuote from: LC on October 13, 2015, 11:15:00 PMHopefully this will get congress to actually do away with the draft.The military doesn't even want it in place so it doesn't even serve the institution it was implemented to.The "Draft" hasn't existed in any meaningful form for quite a number of years now. Why selective Service remains is to serve as a pool of people that can be drawn at time of great crisis. Like, say, an actual war on the home front. You bet your sweet ass that if were actually invaded that the Draft would make a full come back. Not that if we were to fight a war on our soil that there wouldn't be a huge influx of volunteers.Which would never happen anyway so it's pointless to keep it around.Never and Unlikely are two entirely different beasts. We did fight World War II on US Soil after all. Lest the Aleutian Campaign be forgotten.StopThere will never be another war like WWII and no nation on Earth is capable of conducting a successful invasion of the US.It will never happen.You say that so assuredly. While I'm inclined to agree that the simple existence of Nuclear Weapons will prevent two nuclear powers from going to war, I also believe it's naive to completely dismiss the possibility. Stranger things have literally happened. I mean, for fuck's sake, look at the start of World War I and the intertwined alliances and defense treaties that led to that hell. Yes, the probability is low that another major war will start. Yes, the likelihood of an Invasion of the United States is next to nill. But to say that the chances are so low that it will never happen is just dumb. You cannot predict geopolitical climates in 20 years. You cannot predict major events that change the world and it's course. We almost had World War 3 quite a few times during the Cold War. While tensions have died down, it doesn't mean they are gone.
Quote from: Kernel Kraut on October 14, 2015, 12:50:15 AMQuote from: LC on October 14, 2015, 12:45:10 AMQuote from: Kernel Kraut on October 14, 2015, 12:41:15 AMQuote from: LC on October 13, 2015, 11:15:00 PMHopefully this will get congress to actually do away with the draft.The military doesn't even want it in place so it doesn't even serve the institution it was implemented to.The "Draft" hasn't existed in any meaningful form for quite a number of years now. Why selective Service remains is to serve as a pool of people that can be drawn at time of great crisis. Like, say, an actual war on the home front. You bet your sweet ass that if were actually invaded that the Draft would make a full come back. Not that if we were to fight a war on our soil that there wouldn't be a huge influx of volunteers.Which would never happen anyway so it's pointless to keep it around.Never and Unlikely are two entirely different beasts. We did fight World War II on US Soil after all. Lest the Aleutian Campaign be forgotten.StopThere will never be another war like WWII and no nation on Earth is capable of conducting a successful invasion of the US.It will never happen.
Quote from: LC on October 14, 2015, 12:45:10 AMQuote from: Kernel Kraut on October 14, 2015, 12:41:15 AMQuote from: LC on October 13, 2015, 11:15:00 PMHopefully this will get congress to actually do away with the draft.The military doesn't even want it in place so it doesn't even serve the institution it was implemented to.The "Draft" hasn't existed in any meaningful form for quite a number of years now. Why selective Service remains is to serve as a pool of people that can be drawn at time of great crisis. Like, say, an actual war on the home front. You bet your sweet ass that if were actually invaded that the Draft would make a full come back. Not that if we were to fight a war on our soil that there wouldn't be a huge influx of volunteers.Which would never happen anyway so it's pointless to keep it around.Never and Unlikely are two entirely different beasts. We did fight World War II on US Soil after all. Lest the Aleutian Campaign be forgotten.
Quote from: Kernel Kraut on October 14, 2015, 12:41:15 AMQuote from: LC on October 13, 2015, 11:15:00 PMHopefully this will get congress to actually do away with the draft.The military doesn't even want it in place so it doesn't even serve the institution it was implemented to.The "Draft" hasn't existed in any meaningful form for quite a number of years now. Why selective Service remains is to serve as a pool of people that can be drawn at time of great crisis. Like, say, an actual war on the home front. You bet your sweet ass that if were actually invaded that the Draft would make a full come back. Not that if we were to fight a war on our soil that there wouldn't be a huge influx of volunteers.Which would never happen anyway so it's pointless to keep it around.
Quote from: LC on October 13, 2015, 11:15:00 PMHopefully this will get congress to actually do away with the draft.The military doesn't even want it in place so it doesn't even serve the institution it was implemented to.The "Draft" hasn't existed in any meaningful form for quite a number of years now. Why selective Service remains is to serve as a pool of people that can be drawn at time of great crisis. Like, say, an actual war on the home front. You bet your sweet ass that if were actually invaded that the Draft would make a full come back. Not that if we were to fight a war on our soil that there wouldn't be a huge influx of volunteers.
No it really isn't dumb to think that. Wars are not fought the same way they were almost 80 years ago and due to the fact that no nation has the capability to conduct a successful invasion of the US we aren't in any danger. Even if countries like Russia and China had the capability (or desire) to wage war against the US it would be nightmare to try and occupy a country like it and the cost associated with it would be far greater than any short term benefit they could possibly gain.You're paranoid man.
Women should not be in infantry positions.I don't care what bullshit equality argument you throw at me. Safety comes before any kind of tenuous quota someone has to fulfill.
I'd like to remind everyone that roughly over 60% of US soldiers in WWII were conscripted.Tell me again how the draft was never needed for a just war.
Quote from: Ronnie Pickering on October 14, 2015, 07:19:58 AMWomen should not be in infantry positions.I don't care what bullshit equality argument you throw at me. Safety comes before any kind of tenuous quota someone has to fulfill. If a woman is qualified to hold an infantry position, why shouldn't she be allowed to do it?
Quote from: Mad Max on October 14, 2015, 01:14:22 PMQuote from: Ronnie Pickering on October 14, 2015, 07:19:58 AMWomen should not be in infantry positions.I don't care what bullshit equality argument you throw at me. Safety comes before any kind of tenuous quota someone has to fulfill. If a woman is qualified to hold an infantry position, why shouldn't she be allowed to do it?Detriment to unit cohesion and operational efficiency.
Quote from: Mad Max on October 14, 2015, 01:14:22 PMQuote from: Ronnie Pickering on October 14, 2015, 07:19:58 AMWomen should not be in infantry positions.I don't care what bullshit equality argument you throw at me. Safety comes before any kind of tenuous quota someone has to fulfill. If a woman is qualified to hold an infantry position, why shouldn't she be allowed to do it?http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a262626.pdfInnumerable evidence within the IDF and relevant studies suggest that a woman's presence has an adverse effect on unit cohesion and the capacity to carry out orders within a unit.https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/checkpoint/wp/2015/09/14/navy-secretary-threw-us-under-the-bus-say-marines-in-gender-integrated-infantry-unit/Not to mention that women are twice as likely to sustain injury during combat situations and have been shown to be substantially less skilled in regards to shooting accuracy.Sometimes it makes me wonder what you guys are prepared to sacrifice just for the sake of 'equality.'
Quote from: Meta as Fuck on October 14, 2015, 01:16:03 PMQuote from: Mad Max on October 14, 2015, 01:14:22 PMQuote from: Ronnie Pickering on October 14, 2015, 07:19:58 AMWomen should not be in infantry positions.I don't care what bullshit equality argument you throw at me. Safety comes before any kind of tenuous quota someone has to fulfill. If a woman is qualified to hold an infantry position, why shouldn't she be allowed to do it?Detriment to unit cohesion and operational efficiency.I keep hearing this meme but I really want a demonstration of it.
Quote from: Mad Max on October 14, 2015, 01:18:38 PMQuote from: Meta as Fuck on October 14, 2015, 01:16:03 PMQuote from: Mad Max on October 14, 2015, 01:14:22 PMQuote from: Ronnie Pickering on October 14, 2015, 07:19:58 AMWomen should not be in infantry positions.I don't care what bullshit equality argument you throw at me. Safety comes before any kind of tenuous quota someone has to fulfill. If a woman is qualified to hold an infantry position, why shouldn't she be allowed to do it?Detriment to unit cohesion and operational efficiency.I don't understand how having mixed genders in infantry is detrimental to unit cohesion and efficiency.We've been over this.Social obligations demand men engage in self-sacrificial behavior to protect women, which can compromise not only the safety of other personnel, but also the success of the operation.
Quote from: Meta as Fuck on October 14, 2015, 01:16:03 PMQuote from: Mad Max on October 14, 2015, 01:14:22 PMQuote from: Ronnie Pickering on October 14, 2015, 07:19:58 AMWomen should not be in infantry positions.I don't care what bullshit equality argument you throw at me. Safety comes before any kind of tenuous quota someone has to fulfill. If a woman is qualified to hold an infantry position, why shouldn't she be allowed to do it?Detriment to unit cohesion and operational efficiency.I don't understand how having mixed genders in infantry is detrimental to unit cohesion and efficiency.
Quote from: DAS r00d d00d B00T on October 14, 2015, 06:34:50 AMI'd like to remind everyone that roughly over 60% of US soldiers in WWII were conscripted.Tell me again how the draft was never needed for a just war.I'd like to remind you that WWII was three-quarters of a century ago. Wars and how we fight them are different now. Large-scale invasions aren't a thing anymore.
Quote from: eggsalad on October 14, 2015, 01:45:40 PMQuote from: HEAT SEEKING GHOST OF SEX on October 14, 2015, 01:44:29 PMQuote from: Mad Max on October 14, 2015, 01:18:38 PMQuote from: Meta as Fuck on October 14, 2015, 01:16:03 PMQuote from: Mad Max on October 14, 2015, 01:14:22 PMQuote from: Ronnie Pickering on October 14, 2015, 07:19:58 AMWomen should not be in infantry positions.I don't care what bullshit equality argument you throw at me. Safety comes before any kind of tenuous quota someone has to fulfill. If a woman is qualified to hold an infantry position, why shouldn't she be allowed to do it?Detriment to unit cohesion and operational efficiency.I don't understand how having mixed genders in infantry is detrimental to unit cohesion and efficiency.We've been over this.Social obligations demand men engage in self-sacrificial behavior to protect women, which can compromise not only the safety of other personnel, but also the success of the operation.Social pressures also pressure men to save their friends, who they grow and develop with during their training, yet somehow that isn't a magically insane problem. Your hypothesis is flawed.You aren't seriously equating the social dynamics between men and women to platonic same-sex friendship, are you?
Quote from: HEAT SEEKING GHOST OF SEX on October 14, 2015, 01:44:29 PMQuote from: Mad Max on October 14, 2015, 01:18:38 PMQuote from: Meta as Fuck on October 14, 2015, 01:16:03 PMQuote from: Mad Max on October 14, 2015, 01:14:22 PMQuote from: Ronnie Pickering on October 14, 2015, 07:19:58 AMWomen should not be in infantry positions.I don't care what bullshit equality argument you throw at me. Safety comes before any kind of tenuous quota someone has to fulfill. If a woman is qualified to hold an infantry position, why shouldn't she be allowed to do it?Detriment to unit cohesion and operational efficiency.I don't understand how having mixed genders in infantry is detrimental to unit cohesion and efficiency.We've been over this.Social obligations demand men engage in self-sacrificial behavior to protect women, which can compromise not only the safety of other personnel, but also the success of the operation.Social pressures also pressure men to save their friends, who they grow and develop with during their training, yet somehow that isn't a magically insane problem. Your hypothesis is flawed.
Quote from: Ronnie Pickering on October 14, 2015, 01:27:45 PMQuote from: Mad Max on October 14, 2015, 01:14:22 PMQuote from: Ronnie Pickering on October 14, 2015, 07:19:58 AMWomen should not be in infantry positions.I don't care what bullshit equality argument you throw at me. Safety comes before any kind of tenuous quota someone has to fulfill. If a woman is qualified to hold an infantry position, why shouldn't she be allowed to do it?http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a262626.pdfInnumerable evidence within the IDF and relevant studies suggest that a woman's presence has an adverse effect on unit cohesion and the capacity to carry out orders within a unit.https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/checkpoint/wp/2015/09/14/navy-secretary-threw-us-under-the-bus-say-marines-in-gender-integrated-infantry-unit/Not to mention that women are twice as likely to sustain injury during combat situations and have been shown to be substantially less skilled in regards to shooting accuracy.Sometimes it makes me wonder what you guys are prepared to sacrifice just for the sake of 'equality.'Gave the first one a scan and it almost definitely only cited evidence where the women were unable to operate at expected levels, and used that difference in effectiveness as reason to why mutual bonds would be weakened in units. Max's point is that if you have a woman who meets the standards of men then there is no reason to disallow her. For fuck's sake, the mean accuracy or lifting capacity of women is lower than men doesn't matter for shit when the subject matter is allowing a woman who is at the men's mean to serve. No one is saying let a woman who can't drag a 240 pound person serve because mah feelings, they are saying if a woman is able to do that then there is no reason to disallow her. It doesn't matter how rare that event is, the person in question does not share the characteristics with other women that makes them detrimental, thus there is no reason to not take them.
It doesn't matter if she meets the grade. Even women who pass the relevant tests (which are usually lowered)
QuoteIt doesn't matter if she meets the grade. Even women who pass the relevant tests (which are usually lowered)That means the problems lie with the tests allowing unfit candidates in.
Quote from: eggsalad on October 14, 2015, 02:55:33 PMQuoteIt doesn't matter if she meets the grade. Even women who pass the relevant tests (which are usually lowered)That means the problems lie with the tests allowing unfit candidates in.Even fit female candidates have shown a propensity to be incapable of meeting the physically demanding aspects of infantry like men can.Even if they ticked every conceivable box there's still biological aptitudes that we simply cannot get away from, such as female bone density that renders women more likely to sustain injury.
Army: Women will have to register for the draft
