US Attorney General on the North Carolina bill

http://www.slate.com/blogs/outward/2016/05/09/loretta_lynch_defends_trans_rights_at_the_justice_department.html

Spoiler

On paper, the current conflict between the U.S. Department of Justice and North Carolina can seem dry, academic even. North Carolina passed a law forbidding trans people from using certain bathrooms that align with their gender identity. The Department of Justice notified the state that its measure violates several federal civil rights laws; North Carolina threw a tantrum, filing a lawsuit against the agency. Then, on Monday, the DOJ struck back, filing suit against North Carolina for infringing on trans residents’ federal civil rights.

The DOJ’s suit is a wonderfully tough, clear-headed document that carefully explains why “sex discrimination”—which is barred in employment and education under federal civil rights law— encompasses gender identity discrimination. Sex, the suit notes, is an incredibly complex concept: “An individual’s ‘sex’ consists of multiple factors, which may not always be in alignment,” including chromosomes, hormones, and gender identity. By distilling sex to the label a hospital put on one’s birth certificate—then restricting bathroom access based on that label—North Carolina “stigmatizes and singles out transgender employees, results in their isolation and exclusion, and perpetuates a sense that they are not worthy of equal treatment and respect.”

“Gender identity is innate,” the suit declares, “and external efforts to change a person’s gender identity can be harmful to a person’s health and well-being.” Then the lawsuit affirms a simple truth that North Carolina has spent months attempting to deny: “A transgender man’s sex is male and a transgender woman’s sex is female.”

That’s all strong and necessary stuff. But you can’t understand the full import of the DOJ’s actions until you watch Lynch’s astonishing speech announcing the lawsuit. Lynch is wry and unassuming in person; on Monday, she was as fierce and passionate as any member of the pantheon of American civil rights defenders. Lynch joined that pantheon on Monday. Her remarks are certainly the most important speech ever delivered on the topic of trans rights by any government official. They are a turning point in the history of LGBTQ rights in the United States, a resounding declaration of the equal dignity of trans Americans.

“This action is about a great deal more than just bathrooms,” Lynch explained. “This is about the dignity and respect we accord our fellow citizens and the laws that we, as a people and as a country, have enacted to protect them—indeed, to protect all of us. And it’s about the founding ideals that have led this country—haltingly but inexorably—in the direction of fairness, inclusion and equality for all Americans.”

Lynch then placed North Carolina’s law in the context of America’s dark history of segregation:

This is not the first time that we have seen discriminatory responses to historic moments of progress for our nation. We saw it in the Jim Crow laws that followed the Emancipation Proclamation. We saw it in fierce and widespread resistance to Brown v. Board of Education. And we saw it in the proliferation of state bans on same-sex unions intended to stifle any hope that gay and lesbian Americans might one day be afforded the right to marry. That right, of course, is now recognized as a guarantee embedded in our Constitution, and in the wake of that historic triumph, we have seen bill after bill in state after state taking aim at the LGBT community. Some of these responses reflect a recognizably human fear of the unknown, and a discomfort with the uncertainty of change.

To Lynch, however, this response contradicts basic American values:

But this is not a time to act out of fear. This is a time to summon our national virtues of inclusivity, diversity, compassion, and open-mindedness. What we must not do—what we must never do—is turn on our neighbors, our family members, our fellow Americans, for something they cannot control, and deny what makes them human. This is why none of us can stand by when a state enters the business of legislating identity and insists that a person pretend to be something they are not, or invents a problem that doesn’t exist as a pretext for discrimination and harassment

Lynch, who was born in North Carolina, also addressed her fellow North Carolinians directly:

Let me speak now to the people of the great state, the beautiful state, my state of North Carolina. You’ve been told that this law protects vulnerable populations from harm—but that just is not the case. Instead, what this law does is inflict further indignity on a population that has already suffered far more than its fair share. This law provides no benefit to society—all it does is harm innocent Americans.
Instead of turning away from our neighbors, our friends, our colleagues, let us instead learn from our history and avoid repeating the mistakes of our past. Let us reflect on the obvious but often neglected lesson that state-sanctioned discrimination never looks good in hindsight. It was not so very long ago that states, including North Carolina, had signs above restrooms, water fountains and on public accommodations keeping people out based upon a distinction without a difference. We have moved beyond those dark days, but not without pain and suffering and an ongoing fight to keep moving forward. Let us write a different story this time. Let us not act out of fear and misunderstanding, but out of the values of inclusion, diversity, and regard for all that make our country great.

Finally, Lynch reached out to the trans North Carolinians who have been targeted and stigmatized by their state’s sudden turn toward intolerance:

Let me also speak directly to the transgender community itself. Some of you have lived freely for decades. Others of you are still wondering how you can possibly live the lives you were born to lead. But no matter how isolated or scared you may feel today, the Department of Justice and the entire Obama administration wants you to know that we see you; we stand with you; and we will do everything we can to protect you going forward. Please know that history is on your side. This country was founded on a promise of equal rights for all, and we have always managed to move closer to that promise, little by little, one day at a time. It may not be easy—but we’ll get there together.

This is a historic moment. North Carolina has elected to declare war on trans people’s civil rights—and the Obama administration has chosen the side of equal dignity for all. Lynch may be an ally rather than a member of the community, but it’s clear that she deeply empathizes with the trans movement’s fight for justice. To the states that would deny trans people fundamental rights because of their identity, to the governors who would defend their animus-fueled laws with chicanery and pretext, to the lawyers who would line up to reverse trans Americans’ hard-won civil rights, Lynch has an unmistakable message: Not on my watch.

Even the attorney general is apparently involved with the fight against the bill.

This user has been blacklisted from posting on the forums. Until the blacklist is lifted, all posts made by this user have been hidden and require a Sep7agon^® SecondClass Premium Membership to view.

He wants his porn back

What?

Feds are taking this way to seriously.

Feds are taking this way to seriously.

Uh, no.

Feds are taking this way to seriously.

Uh, no.

Uh, yeah. That they've cut of funding to NC to bully them into following their policies.

Feds are taking this way to seriously.

Uh, no.

Uh, yeah. That they've cut of funding to NC to bully them into following their policies.

Again, no

Also, it isn't "bullying" to tell a state their laws are discriminatory.

Feds are taking this way to seriously.

Uh, no.

Uh, yeah. That they've cut of funding to NC to bully them into following their policies.

Again, no

Also, it isn't "bullying" to tell a state their laws are discriminatory.

I disagree.

Feds are taking this way to seriously.

Uh, no.

Uh, yeah. That they've cut of funding to NC to bully them into following their policies.

Again, no

Also, it isn't "bullying" to tell a state their laws are discriminatory.

I disagree.

You can disagree all you want. That doesn't make you right on this issue at all.

Feds are taking this way to seriously.

Uh, no.

Uh, yeah. That they've cut of funding to NC to bully them into following their policies.

ironically the states rights crybabies tend to forget this issue spawns from NC state legislature trying to restrict local government's ability to pass legislation

Feds are taking this way to seriously.

Uh, no.

Uh, yeah. That they've cut of funding to NC to bully them into following their policies.

Again, no

Also, it isn't "bullying" to tell a state their laws are discriminatory.

I disagree.

Bullying and unwarranted withholding of federal funds was the National Minimum Drinking Age Act. This is warranted interference to stop a state from breaching the recognized civil rights of a minority group.

This whole thing is retarded.  It went from being a non issue to being blown out of proportion.  I get NC should have left well enough alone, but then we have things like Target on the other extreme.  What people seem to be forgetting is that no one is being stopped from using the bathroom, just their "preferred" bathroom.  Guess what, being comfortable isn't a right.  Jesus Christ, people these days and their identity politics.

This whole thing is retarded.

Not at all.

I get NC should have left well enough alone, but then we have things like Target on the other extreme.

North Carolina should not have been left alone with blatantly discriminatory laws, and Target is in the right in their opinion.

What people seem to be forgetting is that no one is being stopped from using the bathroom, just their "preferred" bathroom.  Guess what, being comfortable isn't a right.

Funny - no one was stopping blacks from using the bathroom, just their preferred bathrooms. No one was stopping blacks from using the bus, just the preferred seats.

Systematic discrimination against a subclass is blatantly wrong, no matter if it's something you agree with or not.

This whole thing is retarded.  It went from being a non issue to being blown out of proportion.  I get NC should have left well enough alone, but then we have things like Target on the other extreme.  What people seem to be forgetting is that no one is being stopped from using the bathroom, just their "preferred" bathroom.  Guess what, being comfortable isn't a right.  Jesus Christ, people these days and their identity politics.

Have fun being a passing transman trying to follow the law here. You'll get pulled out by police until you can produce BC (this law is according to statement on your BC, not other forms of ID) or flash your genitals. For a transman to be able to use a bathroom unhindered they'd probably have to break the law by using the men's.

And let's not get it started on how brutal it is to just tell transwomen to deal with the fact they have very good chances of being harassed, assaulted, or worse in men's restrooms.

Ironically reactionary babyrage towards identity politics has done more to disrupt society than any trans people ever have.

Ironically reactionary babyrage towards identity politics has done more to disrupt society than any trans people ever have.

Identity politics can still get pretty bad though. Horseshoe theory is relevant in this type of situation.

Identity politics can still get pretty bad though. Horseshoe theory is relevant in this type of situation.

Can you explain more specifically?

Identity politics can still get pretty bad though. Horseshoe theory is relevant in this type of situation.

Can you explain more specifically?

I'm more just talking about stuff like this. If that's an accurate example of identity politics at work.

 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3573220/Racist-black-Oxford-student-international-hate-figure-refusing-tip-Caucasian-waitress-refuses-defend-actions-white-media.html

This whole thing is retarded.

Not at all.

I get NC should have left well enough alone, but then we have things like Target on the other extreme.

North Carolina should not have been left alone with blatantly discriminatory laws, and Target is in the right in their opinion.

What people seem to be forgetting is that no one is being stopped from using the bathroom, just their "preferred" bathroom.  Guess what, being comfortable isn't a right.

Funny - no one was stopping blacks from using the bathroom, just their preferred bathrooms. No one was stopping blacks from using the bus, just the preferred seats.

Systematic discrimination against a subclass is blatantly wrong, no matter if it's something you agree with or not.

First of all, I don't agree that NC should have done what it did.  Secondly what Target is doing is enabling people, mostly men, to abuse the rule of this.  It's not because of trannies, it's because of the real perverts who take advantage of this, and yes, it is happening.  And lastly, this doesn't compare to black people or race at all, so stop right there.  Trans people are not being stopped from going to the bathroom at all.  If they can get away with it because they look the part, then go right ahead, if not, then use the bathroom that corresponds with what's between your legs.  You don't like it, then don't go to the bathroom.  Being trans is not comparable to race in anyway.  You don't get to choose to be black.  And what's more fucked up about this situation is you have performers refusing to go to NC, but they'll surer than shit play in places like the Middle East where you know damn well that you and I would be executed just for being us.  So yes, this is retarded. 

Identity politics can still get pretty bad though. Horseshoe theory is relevant in this type of situation.

Can you explain more specifically?

I'm more just talking about stuff like this. If that's an accurate example of identity politics at work.

 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3573220/Racist-black-Oxford-student-international-hate-figure-refusing-tip-Caucasian-waitress-refuses-defend-actions-white-media.html

oh
Does identity politics include stuff like this? I always thought the "identity" was like "gender identity".

Identity politics can still get pretty bad though. Horseshoe theory is relevant in this type of situation.

Can you explain more specifically?

I'm more just talking about stuff like this. If that's an accurate example of identity politics at work.

 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3573220/Racist-black-Oxford-student-international-hate-figure-refusing-tip-Caucasian-waitress-refuses-defend-actions-white-media.html

oh
Does identity politics include stuff like this? I always thought the "identity" was like "gender identity".

I believe so.

First of all, I don't agree that NC should have done what it did.  Secondly what Target is doing is enabling people, mostly men, to abuse the rule of this. It's not because of trannies, it's because of the real perverts who take advantage of this, and yes, it is happening.

What stops a pervert from now saying he's just a transman to get in. Genital police? Gunna make everyone carry their BC with them?

And lastly, this doesn't compare to black people or race at all, so stop right there.  Trans people are not being stopped from going to the bathroom at all.

Yeah they just have to worry about being removed by cops or being harassed or assaulted. Totally not undue inconveniences to just needing to defecate.

If they can get away with it because they look the part, then go right ahead, if not, then use the bathroom that corresponds with what's between your legs.

Yeah, what a truly remarkable measure of legitimacy. Let Cletus or his hag wife decide who and doesn't look feminine enough. Like this hasn't already caused problem for cis women who look like they might be trans. There are retards out there, this rule of thumb gives them the power to turn a bathroom visit into a situation involving police.

Being trans is not comparable to race in anyway.  You don't get to choose to be black.

Let's just ignore the fact that it's choose to be trans or continue to wallow in extreme depression. Yeah, it's a trans person's choice to transition. About as much as it is for someone to choose to undergo chemo.

And what's more fucked up about this situation is you have performers refusing to go to NC, but they'll surer than shit play in places like the Middle East where you know damn well that you and I would be executed just for being us.  So yes, this is retarded.

Agreed, but that's reason to have them boycott those bad places, not stop boycotting this bad place.

This whole thing is retarded.  It went from being a non issue to being blown out of proportion.  I get NC should have left well enough alone, but then we have things like Target on the other extreme.  What people seem to be forgetting is that no one is being stopped from using the bathroom, just their "preferred" bathroom.  Guess what, being comfortable isn't a right.  Jesus Christ, people these days and their identity politics.

Have fun being a passing transman trying to follow the law here. You'll get pulled out by police until you can produce BC (this law is according to statement on your BC, not other forms of ID) or flash your genitals. For a transman to be able to use a bathroom unhindered they'd probably have to break the law by using the men's.

And let's not get it started on how brutal it is to just tell transwomen to deal with the fact they have very good chances of being harassed, assaulted, or worse in men's restrooms.

Ironically reactionary babyrage towards identity politics has done more to disrupt society than any trans people ever have.

This is what baffles me.  It's not because of trans people as far as I know.  They're unfortunately the ones suffering from it, though.  I'm honestly curious about where this whole thing started in NC, because I get the feeling it wasn't trans people complaining or speaking out that caused a backlash. 

First of all, I don't agree that NC should have done what it did.  Secondly what Target is doing is enabling people, mostly men, to abuse the rule of this. It's not because of trannies, it's because of the real perverts who take advantage of this, and yes, it is happening.

What stops a pervert from now saying he's just a transman to get in. Genital police? Gunna make everyone carry their BC with them?

And lastly, this doesn't compare to black people or race at all, so stop right there.  Trans people are not being stopped from going to the bathroom at all.

Yeah they just have to worry about being removed by cops or being harassed or assaulted. Totally not undue inconveniences to just needing to defecate.

If they can get away with it because they look the part, then go right ahead, if not, then use the bathroom that corresponds with what's between your legs.

Yeah, what a truly remarkable measure of legitimacy. Let Cletus or his hag wife decide who and doesn't look feminine enough. Like this hasn't already caused problem for cis women who look like they might be trans. There are retards out there, this rule of thumb gives them the power to turn a bathroom visit into a situation involving police.

Being trans is not comparable to race in anyway.  You don't get to choose to be black.

Let's just ignore the fact that it's choose to be trans or continue to wallow in extreme depression. Yeah, it's a trans person's choice to transition. About as much as it is for someone to choose to undergo chemo.

And what's more fucked up about this situation is you have performers refusing to go to NC, but they'll surer than shit play in places like the Middle East where you know damn well that you and I would be executed just for being us.  So yes, this is retarded.

Agreed, but that's reason to have them boycott those bad places, not stop boycotting this bad place.

That's what I'm saying, no one can stop them at this point.  If you go to a Target and tell a manager or whoever that you'd prefer to use the women's room, then you can, regardless of your intent.  What is with all this feat mongering?  How often are trans people actually assaulted for using the bathroom?  And of someone is assaulted because of it, it doesn't make the assault legal.  Yeah, there are shitty people out there.  Fuck, I just got called miss at the mall on Sunday wearing a hoodie and jeans.  Stupid people exist, but how many of them go out of their way to attack someone? If you're that scared to use the bathroom, then don't.  Yeah that sucks.  I'm not saying it's right, nor do I think something shouldn't be done about it.  Something needs to be figured out, but neither NC or Target are right in what they're doing  Like I said, being comfortable isn't a right.

What is with all this fear mongering?  And if someone is assaulted because of it, it doesn't make the assault legal.

Then why is stopping perverts suddenly a huge issue? Or is some pro activeness pretty reasonable to have here? 

How often are trans people actually assaulted for using the bathroom?

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1525/srsp.2008.5.1.43
http://faculty.mu.edu.sa/public/uploads/1425310920.5389violence%20transgender.pdf
http://hrc-assets.s3-website-us-east-1.amazonaws.com//files/assets/resources/HRC-AntiTransgenderViolence-0519.pdf
http://www.cuav.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/5954_NCAVP2009HateViolenceReportforWeb.pdf

Some old, some new. All agree there are a lot of recording and reporting problems on figures.
The numbers are small, but there aren't many trans people to begin with.

This is just from brief review, crucify me over things if you want.

What is with all this fear mongering?  And if someone is assaulted because of it, it doesn't make the assault legal.

Then why is stopping perverts suddenly a huge issue? Or is some pro activeness pretty reasonable to have here? 

How often are trans people actually assaulted for using the bathroom?

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1525/srsp.2008.5.1.43
http://faculty.mu.edu.sa/public/uploads/1425310920.5389violence%20transgender.pdf
http://hrc-assets.s3-website-us-east-1.amazonaws.com//files/assets/resources/HRC-AntiTransgenderViolence-0519.pdf
http://www.cuav.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/5954_NCAVP2009HateViolenceReportforWeb.pdf

Some old, some new. All agree there are a lot of recording and reporting problems on figures.
The numbers are small, but there aren't many trans people to begin with.

This is just from brief review, crucify me over things if you want.

The pervert problem isn't trans people, it's people abusing policies like Target's that's the problem.. part of it.  Honestly, I'm not even sure what we're arguing about.  Because of course there are assault cases against trans.  But the numbers are so small, where LGBT as a whole make up roughly 5% of the population with the T at a fifth, that there was no need for this to really be an issue with NC to begin with.  I'm not for what NC did, but I'm opposed to how Target treats this.