A challenge for the religious/conservative users here

More Than Mortal · September 26, 2014, 02:28:05 PM

This is probably more properly aimed at people who don't support secularism and think (some) Western nations should be Christian (or otherwise religious), or humanism*. It just so coincides that such people are likely to be religious or of a very conservative persuasion (please don't think I'm trying to single out people for mockery).

Name me a society that has based its values on the likes of Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Paine, David Hume, Bertrand Russell, et cetera, that is even vaguely comparable to the shortcomings and atrocities of religious or worshipful states.

And, name me a moral act which can be committed by a believer which can't be committed by a non-believer (prayer doesn't count).

*

Spoiler

Humanism is a philosophical and ethical stance that emphasizes the value and agency of human beings, individually and collectively, and generally prefers critical thinking and evidence (rationalism, empiricism) over established doctrine or faith (fideism).

DAS B00T x2 · September 26, 2014, 02:32:39 PM

I expected the spoiler to say "you can't."

challengerX · September 26, 2014, 02:45:02 PM

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More Than Mortal · September 26, 2014, 04:28:21 PM

Quote from: DAS B00T x2 on September 26, 2014, 02:32:39 PM

I expected the spoiler to say "you can't."

I should've put that.

*sits here patiently waiting for somebody to reply*

Even if you aren't religious or exceptionally conservative, feel free to try and take up the mantle.

PSU · September 26, 2014, 04:43:13 PM

Why

More Than Mortal · September 26, 2014, 04:59:18 PM

Quote from: PSU on September 26, 2014, 04:43:13 PM

Why

Justification for beliefs is always nice.

PSU · September 26, 2014, 05:02:10 PM

Quote from: Meta Cognition on September 26, 2014, 04:59:18 PM

Quote from: PSU on September 26, 2014, 04:43:13 PM
Why
Justification for beliefs is always nice.

I agree.

But why doesn't anyone but ME (the person with said beliefs) need justification?

More Than Mortal · September 26, 2014, 05:05:38 PM

Quote from: PSU on September 26, 2014, 05:02:10 PM

Quote from: Meta Cognition on September 26, 2014, 04:59:18 PM
Quote from: PSU on September 26, 2014, 04:43:13 PM
Why
Justification for beliefs is always nice.

I agree.

But why doesn't anyone but ME (the person with said beliefs) need justification?

Are you asking why nobody asks anybody else but you for justification?

Or are you asking why the people with the beliefs in general are the ones asked for justification?

PSU · September 26, 2014, 05:06:42 PM

I'm asking, why should I have to justify anything to anyone other than myself?

Mad Max · September 26, 2014, 05:11:20 PM

Quote from: Meta Cognition on September 26, 2014, 02:28:05 PM

And, name me a moral act which can be committed by a believer which can't be committed by a non-believer (prayer doesn't count).

This intrigues me the most.

rC · September 26, 2014, 05:30:14 PM

Quote from: PSU on September 26, 2014, 05:06:42 PM

I'm asking, why should I have to justify anything to anyone other than myself?

You don't have to, but if you're gonna post in threads like this, it'd probably be in your best interest to do so.

PSU · September 26, 2014, 05:34:54 PM

Quote from: RC5908 on September 26, 2014, 05:30:14 PM

Quote from: PSU on September 26, 2014, 05:06:42 PM
I'm asking, why should I have to justify anything to anyone other than myself?
You don't have to, but if you're gonna post in threads like this, it'd probably be in your best interest to do so.

I just think its in bad taste to ask someone why they believe in God. Its like asking someone how much they make.

rC · September 26, 2014, 05:43:13 PM

Quote from: PSU on September 26, 2014, 05:34:54 PM

Quote from: RC5908 on September 26, 2014, 05:30:14 PM
Quote from: PSU on September 26, 2014, 05:06:42 PM
I'm asking, why should I have to justify anything to anyone other than myself?
You don't have to, but if you're gonna post in threads like this, it'd probably be in your best interest to do so.

I just think its in bad taste to ask someone why they believe in God. Its like asking someone how much they make.

You don't have to answer. If this kind of discussion offends you, don't participate.

I do agree with you, though, about it being in bad taste.

Mad Max · September 26, 2014, 05:49:15 PM

Quote from: PSU on September 26, 2014, 05:34:54 PM

I just think its in bad taste to ask someone why they believe in God.

But that's not what is happening here.

Quote

Name me a society that has based its values on the likes of Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Paine, David Hume, Bertrand Russell, et cetera, that is even vaguely comparable to the shortcomings and atrocities of religious or worshipful states.

Swaggerific · September 26, 2014, 09:19:21 PM

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Mad Max · September 26, 2014, 09:26:35 PM

Quote from: Swaggerific on September 26, 2014, 09:19:21 PM

but on average they're not.

....based on...?

Swaggerific · September 26, 2014, 09:32:02 PM

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Mad Max · September 26, 2014, 09:32:35 PM

Quote from: Swaggerific on September 26, 2014, 09:32:02 PM

Quote from: Mad Max on September 26, 2014, 09:26:35 PM
Quote from: Swaggerific on September 26, 2014, 09:19:21 PM
but on average they're not.
....based on...?
What are you talking about lol

Figures that the newshit can't figure out words.

Auspicious Rose · September 26, 2014, 10:47:06 PM

>People taking PSU seriously itt

Huelelkek

Ace Ventura · September 27, 2014, 01:23:18 AM

I'm sorry, what?
Im busy SAVING ANIMALS HERE.

Word Wizard · September 27, 2014, 01:33:21 AM

Quote from: Mad Max on September 26, 2014, 05:11:20 PM

Quote from: Meta Cognition on September 26, 2014, 02:28:05 PM
And, name me a moral act which can be committed by a believer which can't be committed by a non-believer (prayer doesn't count).
This intrigues me the most.

Have you heard of Christopher Hitchens?

More Than Mortal · September 27, 2014, 02:32:33 AM

Quote from: Swaggerific on September 26, 2014, 09:19:21 PM

Atheists can be good people too, but on average they're not. I think that's the key distinction.

Yeah. . . No. That's not true.

More Than Mortal · September 27, 2014, 02:33:17 AM

Quote from: Sly Instinct on September 27, 2014, 01:33:21 AM

Quote from: Mad Max on September 26, 2014, 05:11:20 PM
Quote from: Meta Cognition on September 26, 2014, 02:28:05 PM
And, name me a moral act which can be committed by a believer which can't be committed by a non-believer (prayer doesn't count).
This intrigues me the most.

Have you heard of Christopher Hitchens?

Is he the author of the challenge? He's my source for it, but I didn't want to mention it just in case he got it from somewhere else I'm not aware of.

Word Wizard · September 27, 2014, 04:10:32 AM

Quote from: Meta Cognition on September 27, 2014, 02:33:17 AM

Quote from: Sly Instinct on September 27, 2014, 01:33:21 AM
Quote from: Mad Max on September 26, 2014, 05:11:20 PM
Quote from: Meta Cognition on September 26, 2014, 02:28:05 PM
And, name me a moral act which can be committed by a believer which can't be committed by a non-believer (prayer doesn't count).
This intrigues me the most.

Have you heard of Christopher Hitchens?
Is he the author of the challenge? He's my source for it, but I didn't want to mention it just in case he got it from somewhere else I'm not aware of.

In a video I thought I heard him say it was his challenge, but there were so many videos on morality I just googled it.

The third to last paragraph he says it's his challenge http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/13/AR2007071301461.html

challengerX · September 27, 2014, 05:32:19 AM

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Swaggerific · September 27, 2014, 07:43:54 AM

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Swaggerific · September 27, 2014, 07:49:37 AM

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challengerX · September 27, 2014, 07:51:46 AM

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Swaggerific · September 27, 2014, 07:56:21 AM

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challengerX · September 27, 2014, 08:02:48 AM

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