Quote from: Pendulate on May 12, 2015, 10:42:53 PM

Quote from: Tryptameme on May 12, 2015, 10:37:41 PM

Not to mention we already have alternatives for almost every animal product there is.

Unhealthy alternatives which are bad for your physical and mental health.

And yet, they're not imposing harm on other sentient beings.

Ignoring for the moment that what you're saying is bullshit, of course. Troll.

Especialy after Verb just made this thread almost impossible to take seriously anymore with his "I want destroy the world" nonsense

No, what I want to do is end suffering. And you're not going to end suffering by being a meat-eater.

Quote from: Pendulate on May 12, 2015, 10:42:53 PM

Quote from: Tryptameme on May 12, 2015, 10:37:41 PM

Not to mention we already have alternatives for almost every animal product there is.

Unhealthy alternatives which are bad for your physical and mental health.

I'm sure there are some alternatives out there that affect people in ways that would be detrimental to their health, but there are also alternatives that are completely fine for people to regularly consume.

It comes down to the knowledge of the consumer and what exactly they want out of the particular supplement they wish to take.

[You expect me to sift though 10 pages of people arguing to find one random comment? No pls

I'll post it again, then.

If we we're to ever as an entire species to stop eating meat we would have to euthenise metric Fuck-tons of cows and other farm animals to stop some ridiculous environmental disasters including overabundance of CO2

How do you figure that? Animal farming is one of the most environmentally destructive industries on the planet, releasing the same amount of greenhouse gas emissions as every car, truck, train, plane and ship combined. This is not even accounting for the methane produced by livestock which is over 20 times more damaging to the environment and over a period of years this number increases dramatically.

and overpopulation and overgrazing or a combination of all.

Except we do not pluck cows out of the wild and put them in farms; we breed them, by the billions per year, for our pleasure.

In the end everything dies and this whole "morality of killing sentient life" thing comes back and sucker punches you in the face.

So nothing is immoral because everything dies eventually? Would morality be more valid if we all lived forever?

Or better yet, in triggers climate change. Have fun being a vegan in the next Ice Age or when the heat ruins our ability to produce enough crops for everyone.

We need those crops to feed the animals we eat in the first place. And we put far more crops into animals than what we get out of their meat.

We would also need to massively increase the amount of crops that we produce. In fact we would have to bring new crops to different places that they were not ....remember the last time we over-saturated the land with crops they couldn't sustain?

Over 60% of the world's grain crops and 70% of soy are fed to livestock. We have more than enough to sustain ourselves and those in developing countries (assuming an intercontinental market was open) but we instead choose to indulge in meat, a first world luxury of the highest order.

Would very much like to get a response to this.

You sir, are actually retarded.

GREAT argument

There will be no more sentient enjoyment.

So what? Why does there need to be?

kill yourselves

that wouldn't solve anything

Quote from: Majestic Star Dragon on May 12, 2015, 11:01:49 PM

There will be no more sentient enjoyment.

So what? Why does there need to be?

Quote

kill yourselves

that wouldn't solve anything

Uhh apparently killing yourself does solve at least one thing that you want.

*sips tea*

Quote from: Verbatim on May 12, 2015, 11:03:40 PM

Quote from: Majestic Star Dragon on May 12, 2015, 11:01:49 PM

There will be no more sentient enjoyment.

So what? Why does there need to be?

Quote

kill yourselves

that wouldn't solve anything

Uhh apparently killing yourself does solve at least one thing that you want.

*sips tea*

Somebody killing themselves usually puts suffering on those who were close with the deceased, so to someone who wants to end all suffering, I assume that's the complete opposite of what he wants.

Just putting my two cents in

Quote from: Majestic Star Dragon on May 12, 2015, 10:47:07 PM

[You expect me to sift though 10 pages of people arguing to find one random comment? No pls

I'll post it again, then.

Quote from: Majestic Star Dragon on May 12, 2015, 09:18:17 PM

If we we're to ever as an entire species to stop eating meat we would have to euthenise metric Fuck-tons of cows and other farm animals to stop some ridiculous environmental disasters including overabundance of CO2

How do you figure that? Animal farming is one of the most environmentally destructive industries on the planet, releasing the same amount of greenhouse gas emissions as every car, truck, train, plane and ship combined. This is not even accounting for the methane produced by livestock which is over 20 times more damaging to the environment and over a period of years this number increases dramatically.

Quote

and overpopulation and overgrazing or a combination of all.

Except we do not pluck cows out of the wild and put them in farms; we breed them, by the billions per year, for our pleasure.

Quote

In the end everything dies and this whole "morality of killing sentient life" thing comes back and sucker punches you in the face.

So nothing is immoral because everything dies eventually? Would morality be more valid if we all lived forever?

Quote

Or better yet, in triggers climate change. Have fun being a vegan in the next Ice Age or when the heat ruins our ability to produce enough crops for everyone.

We need those crops to feed the animals we eat in the first place. And we put far more crops into animals than what we get out of their meat.

Quote

We would also need to massively increase the amount of crops that we produce. In fact we would have to bring new crops to different places that they were not ....remember the last time we over-saturated the land with crops they couldn't sustain?

Over 60% of the world's grain crops and 70% of soy are fed to livestock. We have more than enough to sustain ourselves and those in developing countries (assuming an intercontinental market was open) but we instead choose to indulge in meat, a first world luxury of the highest order.

Would very much like to get a response to this.

UGH I fucking hate replying to chopped up walls of text. Anyway

1) The point is, the cows we mass produced are already here. They will not only continue to exist after we release them, but they will breed, And just like the horeses and pigs before them, they will breed by the fuck ton, continue producing C02 kile they did before, and they will Overgraze and fuck up the environment.

2) No, death isself not immoal, but Mass Extinction is not exactly what I have in mind for a brighter future.

Tell me, what is natural in ignoring millenia of evolution?
Tell me, what is ethical in ignoring the place you have cultivated in the ecosystem?

You have a very sad and shallow view of the world.
Those who believe there is a way for all to prosper, inevitably fail.
The better part of compromises end in mediocrity and pointlessness for all sides.

If man were meant to be peaceful we would've evolved into pond scum.
It is our responsibility to kill. Not only to kill our prey, but also each other.

I won't require you to eat meat.
If you don't have the stomach for death, that's fine, go lie in a pond until you devolve into scum.
Do not however, insist for a second that your ambitions in veganism are fuelled by anything other than you own weakness, and certainly do not think that you have any place in telling others that they should lie around and devolve into pond scum with you.

Yeah, you're not a fucking crazy psychopath at all.

Quote from: Majestic Star Dragon on May 12, 2015, 11:14:23 PM

I'd appreciate if you quoted my points and addressed them, because you left most of them by the wayside.

Quote

1) The point is, the cows we mass produced are already here. They will not only continue to exist after we release them, but they will breed, And just like the horeses and pigs before them, they will breed by the fuck ton, continue producing C02 kile they did before, and they will Overgraze and fuck up the environment.

Who said anything about releasing them into the wild? No vegan I know has ever suggested that. I don't deny we will have to kill the animals currently alive; the point is to stop breeding more of them.

Quote

2) No, death isself not immoal, but Mass Extinction is not exactly what I have in mind for a brighter future.

I didn't say anything about mass extinction. Maybe Verb did. And if you are referring to the extinction of farm animals -- there are plenty of wild bovine, sheep, pigs, and chickens.

1) I already said I have no interest inhaving to create massive walls of text. I came to the forum to enjoy myself not write a damn dissertation to the NASA.

2)I hate to pull godwislaw in a serious discussion but with the way you worded that it literaly sounds like some kind of Nazi justification for the holocaust. And what are you goint to do with those corpses? What are you going to do about the inevitable violent backlash from anyone who wants their right just to eat like a normal human being. You all tried to wave the prohibition comparison off as some kind of strawman but that's  probably the most valid comparison you can find and Meat is way more ingrained in theaverage diet than alcholoh. People will not take this lying down.



3) The mass extinction refers to the impact that your crazy plan would have on the environment. Climate change is a bitch
 

I hate to pull godwislaw in a serious discussion but with the way you worded that it literaly sounds like some kind of Nazi justification for the holocaust. And what are you goint to do with those corpses? What are you going to do about the inevitable violent backlash from anyone who wants their right just to eat like a normal human being. You all tried to wave the prohibition comparison off as some kind of strawman but that's  probably the most valid comparison you can find and Meat is way more ingrained in theaverage diet than alcholoh. People will not take this lying down.

As opposed to what alternative? Either we stop breeding them and (unfortunately) kill those remaining, or we continue to breed and kill them indefinitely. How can people possibly object to the former when they are perfectly fine with the latter every single day?

What would we do with the corpses? Sell them like they are sold already, I presume.

And nobody said veganism would happen overnight; it would be a gradual shift. You are also moving the goalposts -- the point of the discussion is whether the act of eating animals is ethical. The stubbornness and irrationality of other people is not relevant to what you, personally, choose to do.

You assumed what would happen if society suddenly went vegan, so I gave you a reasonable answer. I never said that such a situation would ever occur.

3) The mass extinction refers to the impact that your crazy plan would have on the environment. Climate change is a bitch

Yes, and I was asking you what these impacts would be. I already explained how animal farming does massive damage to the environment (one of the important points you didn't address). I'd like to know what you think would happen if it were to stop.

>says the one who literally wants to kill EVERYONE IN THE WORLD.

At once, painlessly, for the pragmatic purpose of ending all suffering. Yes.

That's not psychopathic. It would only be psychopathic if
1. i wasn't doing it for any pragmatic purpose
2. i wanted to inflict pain

Quote from: Mega Sceptile on May 12, 2015, 11:55:51 PM

>says the one who literally wants to kill EVERYONE IN THE WORLD.

At once, painlessly, for the pragmatic purpose of ending all suffering. Yes.

you're insane, people deserve to live, to experience all that they can in the short time they have, and you want to ruin that because you're a prick who thinks that you know what's best for the world. suffering is needed in order for us to truly value what the good times bring us, and make those times memorable for the people  involved, and the stories that are told to our successors. suffering is one of the pillars of creation dude, you need to give up something in order to make something and you're fucked in the head if you think you can take that away from all of creation.