Either way, I'd rather "kill the world with CO2 pollution" than kill animals for our gain. MUCH rather.
You're right. I don't care about the animal. Why should I? That doesn't necessarily mean I think the way they're killed is okay though.
Just because eating meat is surrounding by unethical means doesn't make the act of eating meat unethical.It's like video game pre-ordering. Pre-ordering in itself is fine, it's the way pre-ordering is abused that's the problem.
But whatever. I guess I'll just continue being immoral. No skin off my nose.
The petri dish burger that was made sometime last year, if you were offered the chance to eat one - would you?
And then for a longer view hypothetical, say that we found the food equivalent of HeLa cells (That were safe to consume, rather than literal cancer cells) where from the cellular legacy of one animal (That didn't die to give these cells, just as Henrietta wasn't harmed by the cells being taken) a source of death free 'meat' was available for the global population, would you object to that?
don't waste your time with lemona kid who thinks pre-ordering video games is a bigger issue than the suffering of sentient creatures
Quote from: Verbatim on May 12, 2015, 06:28:16 PMdon't waste your time with lemona kid who thinks pre-ordering video games is a bigger issue than the suffering of sentient creaturesI think he understands well enough.
Quote from: Verbatim on May 12, 2015, 11:53:40 AMQuote from: HurtfulTurkey on May 12, 2015, 11:49:22 AMNational parks would completely fail to succeed in this aspect if hunting were outlawed. Trophic cascades caused by unchecked prey-animal populations is devastating to the environment on a long-term timeline. Hunting is absolutely integral to environmentalism and preservation.I'd probably argue that the only reason the deer population, for example, is so high, is because we hunt them. So they breed faster as an evolutionary response. If we stopped hunting them, they wouldn't have any need to breed as fast as they do, would they?No, it's not a result of evolution or even short-term adaptation. It's largely a result of urbanization and taking territory away from predators, allowing a huge rise in prey-animal population.
Quote from: HurtfulTurkey on May 12, 2015, 11:49:22 AMNational parks would completely fail to succeed in this aspect if hunting were outlawed. Trophic cascades caused by unchecked prey-animal populations is devastating to the environment on a long-term timeline. Hunting is absolutely integral to environmentalism and preservation.I'd probably argue that the only reason the deer population, for example, is so high, is because we hunt them. So they breed faster as an evolutionary response. If we stopped hunting them, they wouldn't have any need to breed as fast as they do, would they?
National parks would completely fail to succeed in this aspect if hunting were outlawed. Trophic cascades caused by unchecked prey-animal populations is devastating to the environment on a long-term timeline. Hunting is absolutely integral to environmentalism and preservation.
I'm the same age as you.And I put words in my mouth.
Quote from: Pendulate on May 12, 2015, 06:36:34 PMQuote from: Verbatim on May 12, 2015, 06:28:16 PMdon't waste your time with lemona kid who thinks pre-ordering video games is a bigger issue than the suffering of sentient creaturesI think he understands well enough.how do you figureif people truly understood the impact of what they are doing, if people really understood what it means to be killed and eaten, everyone would be a veganif not by action, than by philosophy
Quote from: HurtfulTurkey on May 12, 2015, 11:59:56 AMQuote from: Verbatim on May 12, 2015, 11:53:40 AMQuote from: HurtfulTurkey on May 12, 2015, 11:49:22 AMNational parks would completely fail to succeed in this aspect if hunting were outlawed. Trophic cascades caused by unchecked prey-animal populations is devastating to the environment on a long-term timeline. Hunting is absolutely integral to environmentalism and preservation.I'd probably argue that the only reason the deer population, for example, is so high, is because we hunt them. So they breed faster as an evolutionary response. If we stopped hunting them, they wouldn't have any need to breed as fast as they do, would they?No, it's not a result of evolution or even short-term adaptation. It's largely a result of urbanization and taking territory away from predators, allowing a huge rise in prey-animal population.That is often not the case, especially with National Parks where the agencies explicitly state in their reports that keeping populations high for hunters is a priority.
We have to destroy life to eat. Whether it's an animal or a plant, it's all precious life were cutting short for our own needs. That's just how it is. It's not a very nice way to live, and when I stip and actually think about the animal I just ate, it's fucked up. But we need to kill other living beings to live. There's no two ways about it.
The point is nobody kills and eats us. We have to destroy life to eat. Whether it's an animal or a plant, it's all precious life were cutting short for our own needs. That's just how it is. It's not a very nice way to live, and when I stip and actually think about the animal I just ate, it's fucked up. But we need to kill other living beings to live. There's no two ways about it.
Have you been to the doctor? What does he/she say about your health? What's your diet consist of?
If you need to rely on dietary supplements and synthetic vitamins to keep your body working properly than your diet is not a healthy or natural one. Sorry, but this is the truth.
I never once implied that natural = healthy as there are many natural diets that you can have that are unhealthy.
However, to be a real vegan you have to have a completely natural diet
and the fact that you need to rely on supplements and synthetics will prevent you from ever being truly natural thus negating any PETA-like claims that humans aren't supposed to eat meat and veganism is the natural and healthy diet that humans are supposed to have.
No, the way meat is procured in the modern world bears no weight on whether or not eating meat is natural. The omnivorous diet is the one that we've evolved to have and a natural and healthy diet will revolve around getting the proper amounts of vitamins and minerals from all essential food groups.
It isn't a coincidence that all of the worlds healthiest diets include some form of animal produce. It's essential to keeping your body 100% fully functional.
If you want to be a vegan for spiritual or "ethical" reasons that's fine. Just don't start claiming the diet is either natural
or healthy
and try to force people to join you.
As a side note vegans typically don't seem to understand that being omnivorous is both cheaper and more efficient. Veganism is not a practical life style for the vast majority of people in the world.
i don't, personally
For how long have you been eating like this?Because studies show you guys need supplements and you really can't substitute meat.
Quote from: Pendulate on May 12, 2015, 06:41:44 PMQuote from: HurtfulTurkey on May 12, 2015, 11:59:56 AMQuote from: Verbatim on May 12, 2015, 11:53:40 AMQuote from: HurtfulTurkey on May 12, 2015, 11:49:22 AMNational parks would completely fail to succeed in this aspect if hunting were outlawed. Trophic cascades caused by unchecked prey-animal populations is devastating to the environment on a long-term timeline. Hunting is absolutely integral to environmentalism and preservation.I'd probably argue that the only reason the deer population, for example, is so high, is because we hunt them. So they breed faster as an evolutionary response. If we stopped hunting them, they wouldn't have any need to breed as fast as they do, would they?No, it's not a result of evolution or even short-term adaptation. It's largely a result of urbanization and taking territory away from predators, allowing a huge rise in prey-animal population.That is often not the case, especially with National Parks where the agencies explicitly state in their reports that keeping populations high for hunters is a priority.They can artificially increase the numbers (largely because the licenses bring in income to sustain the parks I imagine), but it's still a conservation effort.
Quote from: Pendulate on May 12, 2015, 07:25:44 PMQuote from: Verbatim on May 12, 2015, 06:57:33 PMi don't, personallyB12 is absolutely essential to get through either supplements or fortified foods. It's dirt cheap and will spare you some serious long-term detriments.It can also take years for your blood B12 to drop after you stop taking it, so it may not show up on a medical. Best not to take any chances.LOL B12 are you fuckking kidding me man. I was giving my dog B12 shots because he has SIBO and couldn't digest his food properly. Which means he had to eat white rice and chicken because he couldn't stomach anything else (he couldn't even stomach that so that's why we went to the vet) and he needed to get his B12 up. Just eat a steak.
Quote from: Verbatim on May 12, 2015, 06:57:33 PMi don't, personallyB12 is absolutely essential to get through either supplements or fortified foods. It's dirt cheap and will spare you some serious long-term detriments.It can also take years for your blood B12 to drop after you stop taking it, so it may not show up on a medical. Best not to take any chances.
"You should absolutely be forced to be vegan."
