Quote from: Maverick on March 26, 2015, 12:42:00 PMQuote from: GethKhilafah on March 26, 2015, 03:57:44 AMThe reason it was made (to combat oppressive governments) has never been invoked a single time in the history of the US.That must mean it can never happen.Even if it were to happen, it's not like civilians have the firepower to stand up to the US military. Good luck using your handy shotgun against tanks, helicopters, and drones.
Quote from: GethKhilafah on March 26, 2015, 03:57:44 AMThe reason it was made (to combat oppressive governments) has never been invoked a single time in the history of the US.That must mean it can never happen.
The reason it was made (to combat oppressive governments) has never been invoked a single time in the history of the US.
Why are there never any of these threads about kids who steal their parents cars and then hurt or kill people?
Quote from: Mad Max on March 26, 2015, 12:49:02 PMQuote from: Maverick on March 26, 2015, 12:42:00 PMQuote from: GethKhilafah on March 26, 2015, 03:57:44 AMThe reason it was made (to combat oppressive governments) has never been invoked a single time in the history of the US.That must mean it can never happen.Even if it were to happen, it's not like civilians have the firepower to stand up to the US military. Good luck using your handy shotgun against tanks, helicopters, and drones.>what are defections>what is sabotage>how are illiterate Afghan goatherds with rusted AKs and Lee-Enfields costing the US government billions of dollars
Quote from: Luciana on March 26, 2015, 11:38:35 AMYou do realize the 2nd amendment says "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."Meaning they didn't intend for literally all citizens to just walk around with guns. It just somehow got twisted into that. At least that's how some interpret it. The part where it says " the right of the people to keep and bear Arms" is what causes the confusion. The founding fathers just worded it weird.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution#Meaning_of_.22the_right_of_the_People.22
You do realize the 2nd amendment says "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."Meaning they didn't intend for literally all citizens to just walk around with guns. It just somehow got twisted into that. At least that's how some interpret it. The part where it says " the right of the people to keep and bear Arms" is what causes the confusion. The founding fathers just worded it weird.
Quote from: Verbatim on March 26, 2015, 12:11:25 PMQuote from: Luciana on March 26, 2015, 11:38:35 AMYou do realize the 2nd amendment says "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."Meaning they didn't intend for literally all citizens to just walk around with guns. It just somehow got twisted into that. At least that's how some interpret it. The part where it says " the right of the people to keep and bear Arms" is what causes the confusion. The founding fathers just worded it weird.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution#Meaning_of_.22the_right_of_the_People.22Take note that that didn't come about until the 20th century. We're currently operating under a liberal interpretation of the Second Amendment. Under a conservative one we'd be only be able to own fire arms as part of an actual militia. IIRC the argument made during that case was that everyone in the US was a militia or something along those lines. It's been a while since I've done anything with that case.SpoilerI'm not coming out in favor or against gun control/restrictions/whatever with this. I'm just pointing out that Luci isn't necessarily wrong.
This thread has inspired me to buy another pistol. Gonna go Glock this time around.
Quote from: Sly Instinct on March 26, 2015, 04:25:03 PMQuote from: LC on March 26, 2015, 03:21:55 PMQuote from: Verbatim on March 26, 2015, 12:11:25 PMQuote from: Luciana on March 26, 2015, 11:38:35 AMYou do realize the 2nd amendment says "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."Meaning they didn't intend for literally all citizens to just walk around with guns. It just somehow got twisted into that. At least that's how some interpret it. The part where it says " the right of the people to keep and bear Arms" is what causes the confusion. The founding fathers just worded it weird.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution#Meaning_of_.22the_right_of_the_People.22Take note that that didn't come about until the 20th century. We're currently operating under a liberal interpretation of the Second Amendment. Under a conservative one we'd be only be able to own fire arms as part of an actual militia. IIRC the argument made during that case was that everyone in the US was a militia or something along those lines. It's been a while since I've done anything with that case.SpoilerI'm not coming out in favor or against gun control/restrictions/whatever with this. I'm just pointing out that Luci isn't necessarily wrong.YouTubeWhy do people post this guy's videos?Why are you posting his video?
Quote from: LC on March 26, 2015, 03:21:55 PMQuote from: Verbatim on March 26, 2015, 12:11:25 PMQuote from: Luciana on March 26, 2015, 11:38:35 AMYou do realize the 2nd amendment says "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."Meaning they didn't intend for literally all citizens to just walk around with guns. It just somehow got twisted into that. At least that's how some interpret it. The part where it says " the right of the people to keep and bear Arms" is what causes the confusion. The founding fathers just worded it weird.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution#Meaning_of_.22the_right_of_the_People.22Take note that that didn't come about until the 20th century. We're currently operating under a liberal interpretation of the Second Amendment. Under a conservative one we'd be only be able to own fire arms as part of an actual militia. IIRC the argument made during that case was that everyone in the US was a militia or something along those lines. It's been a while since I've done anything with that case.SpoilerI'm not coming out in favor or against gun control/restrictions/whatever with this. I'm just pointing out that Luci isn't necessarily wrong.YouTube
Those incidents happen far less than with guns.
And gun laws are a big debate in the US right now, so yeah.
Quote from: Sly Instinct on March 26, 2015, 04:25:03 PM>Bill Whittle
Quote from: Mad Max on March 26, 2015, 12:49:02 PMQuote from: Maverick on March 26, 2015, 12:42:00 PMQuote from: GethKhilafah on March 26, 2015, 03:57:44 AMThe reason it was made (to combat oppressive governments) has never been invoked a single time in the history of the US.That must mean it can never happen.Even if it were to happen, it's not like civilians have the firepower to stand up to the US military. Good luck using your handy shotgun against tanks, helicopters, and drones.Explosives and computers can take down two of those. We also outnumber them.
Roy Copperund
The US military has prepared for literally every contingency, even a goddamn Zombie Apocalypse. What gives you any idea that some crappy conspiracy theorist militia could take down the strongest military on Earth?
Quote from: Sly Instinct on March 26, 2015, 05:47:54 PM Roy Copperund Also I'm struggling to think of anything Roy Copperud actually did that was noteworthy enough to have his opinion (and his opinion alone) be the single authority on something as controversial as the second amendment.
If it was that easy to claim victory over that sentence this whole semantics debate would have been over long ago.
Quote from: GethKhilafah on March 26, 2015, 06:21:15 PMThe US military has prepared for literally every contingency, even a goddamn Zombie Apocalypse. What gives you any idea that some crappy conspiracy theorist militia could take down the strongest military on Earth?Because the U.S. military is composed of those crappy conspiracy theorists and relies on them for funding.
500,000 to a million angry redneck insurgents with shotguns.
Quote from: GethKhilafah on March 26, 2015, 07:19:39 PMQuote from: Maverick on March 26, 2015, 07:02:14 PMQuote from: GethKhilafah on March 26, 2015, 06:21:15 PMThe US military has prepared for literally every contingency, even a goddamn Zombie Apocalypse. What gives you any idea that some crappy conspiracy theorist militia could take down the strongest military on Earth?Because the U.S. military is composed of those crappy conspiracy theorists and relies on them for funding.Uh, what?I think that the best-trained, best-equipped, and second largest military force in the world could defeat 500,000 to a million angry redneck insurgents with shotguns.>implying the US military isn't made up of 50% crazy rednecks>implying enlisted who joined for college money would actually be willing to fire on American citizens that aren't Muslims
Quote from: Maverick on March 26, 2015, 07:02:14 PMQuote from: GethKhilafah on March 26, 2015, 06:21:15 PMThe US military has prepared for literally every contingency, even a goddamn Zombie Apocalypse. What gives you any idea that some crappy conspiracy theorist militia could take down the strongest military on Earth?Because the U.S. military is composed of those crappy conspiracy theorists and relies on them for funding.Uh, what?I think that the best-trained, best-equipped, and second largest military force in the world could defeat 500,000 to a million angry redneck insurgents with shotguns.
Quote from: GethKhilafah on March 26, 2015, 07:32:56 PMQuote from: Arm The Mob on March 26, 2015, 07:27:09 PMQuote from: GethKhilafah on March 26, 2015, 07:19:39 PMQuote from: Maverick on March 26, 2015, 07:02:14 PMQuote from: GethKhilafah on March 26, 2015, 06:21:15 PMThe US military has prepared for literally every contingency, even a goddamn Zombie Apocalypse. What gives you any idea that some crappy conspiracy theorist militia could take down the strongest military on Earth?Because the U.S. military is composed of those crappy conspiracy theorists and relies on them for funding.Uh, what?I think that the best-trained, best-equipped, and second largest military force in the world could defeat 500,000 to a million angry redneck insurgents with shotguns.>implying the US military isn't made up of 50% crazy rednecks>implying enlisted who joined for college money would actually be willing to fire on American citizens that aren't MuslimsOh come on. Let's look at Syria's military during their little equivalent to your hypothetical scenario. 75% of their army are poorly trained, poorly equipped, unmotivated conscripts who went to war against their own war more blatantly than the US could ever do it, and only a third of their Army ever defected or sabotaged their own efforts. And 4 years later, they're holding their own ground against the 40% of the populace who wants to see them dead. God, they're so bad, that any citizen who can get their hands on an AK is pretty much equal to one of their soldiers.If one of the most shittiest and poorly motivated militaries on Earth was able to hold together in blatant war against the citizens they're supposed to be protecting with only a third of them defecting (and defections have stopped), what makes you think one of the most motivated, best-equipped, and overall best military couldn't do the same? Not to mention peer pressure within the military to stay in. Why should soldiers abandon all their friends they've made in the military, and pretty much their entire life, just to join some insurgent movement which could be better or worse than what they're in right now.FFS, if the US military went to war against its own people, you'd probably have a recruitment spike because people don't want to be killed/enslaved and because misguided patriotism is so rampant in this country.Are you seriously comparing the United States of America to a country that literally only exists because the colonial powers drew its borders the wrong way?
Quote from: Arm The Mob on March 26, 2015, 07:27:09 PMQuote from: GethKhilafah on March 26, 2015, 07:19:39 PMQuote from: Maverick on March 26, 2015, 07:02:14 PMQuote from: GethKhilafah on March 26, 2015, 06:21:15 PMThe US military has prepared for literally every contingency, even a goddamn Zombie Apocalypse. What gives you any idea that some crappy conspiracy theorist militia could take down the strongest military on Earth?Because the U.S. military is composed of those crappy conspiracy theorists and relies on them for funding.Uh, what?I think that the best-trained, best-equipped, and second largest military force in the world could defeat 500,000 to a million angry redneck insurgents with shotguns.>implying the US military isn't made up of 50% crazy rednecks>implying enlisted who joined for college money would actually be willing to fire on American citizens that aren't MuslimsOh come on. Let's look at Syria's military during their little equivalent to your hypothetical scenario. 75% of their army are poorly trained, poorly equipped, unmotivated conscripts who went to war against their own war more blatantly than the US could ever do it, and only a third of their Army ever defected or sabotaged their own efforts. And 4 years later, they're holding their own ground against the 40% of the populace who wants to see them dead. God, they're so bad, that any citizen who can get their hands on an AK is pretty much equal to one of their soldiers.If one of the most shittiest and poorly motivated militaries on Earth was able to hold together in blatant war against the citizens they're supposed to be protecting with only a third of them defecting (and defections have stopped), what makes you think one of the most motivated, best-equipped, and overall best military couldn't do the same? Not to mention peer pressure within the military to stay in. Why should soldiers abandon all their friends they've made in the military, and pretty much their entire life, just to join some insurgent movement which could be better or worse than what they're in right now.FFS, if the US military went to war against its own people, you'd probably have a recruitment spike because people don't want to be killed/enslaved and because misguided patriotism is so rampant in this country.
And in some Black Helicopter-type scenario (which is what you're probably thinking of), the US would most likely cut out mass media (which is incredibly easy to do), so the population would be deprived of information. And information is power as we all know.
Quote from: GethKhilafah on March 26, 2015, 07:39:26 PMQuote from: Arm The Mob on March 26, 2015, 07:35:04 PMQuote from: GethKhilafah on March 26, 2015, 07:32:56 PMQuote from: Arm The Mob on March 26, 2015, 07:27:09 PMQuote from: GethKhilafah on March 26, 2015, 07:19:39 PMQuote from: Maverick on March 26, 2015, 07:02:14 PMQuote from: GethKhilafah on March 26, 2015, 06:21:15 PMThe US military has prepared for literally every contingency, even a goddamn Zombie Apocalypse. What gives you any idea that some crappy conspiracy theorist militia could take down the strongest military on Earth?Because the U.S. military is composed of those crappy conspiracy theorists and relies on them for funding.Uh, what?I think that the best-trained, best-equipped, and second largest military force in the world could defeat 500,000 to a million angry redneck insurgents with shotguns.>implying the US military isn't made up of 50% crazy rednecks>implying enlisted who joined for college money would actually be willing to fire on American citizens that aren't MuslimsOh come on. Let's look at Syria's military during their little equivalent to your hypothetical scenario. 75% of their army are poorly trained, poorly equipped, unmotivated conscripts who went to war against their own war more blatantly than the US could ever do it, and only a third of their Army ever defected or sabotaged their own efforts. And 4 years later, they're holding their own ground against the 40% of the populace who wants to see them dead. God, they're so bad, that any citizen who can get their hands on an AK is pretty much equal to one of their soldiers.If one of the most shittiest and poorly motivated militaries on Earth was able to hold together in blatant war against the citizens they're supposed to be protecting with only a third of them defecting (and defections have stopped), what makes you think one of the most motivated, best-equipped, and overall best military couldn't do the same? Not to mention peer pressure within the military to stay in. Why should soldiers abandon all their friends they've made in the military, and pretty much their entire life, just to join some insurgent movement which could be better or worse than what they're in right now.FFS, if the US military went to war against its own people, you'd probably have a recruitment spike because people don't want to be killed/enslaved and because misguided patriotism is so rampant in this country.Are you seriously comparing the United States of America to a country that literally only exists because the colonial powers drew its borders the wrong way?Yes I am. And that is not relevant to anything whatsoever. If anything, that'd strengthen the legitimacy of the US military since they've existed since even before the US officially declared independence.In all probability, this is how wars against countries' populace tend to go down. There are mass protests, then the Government refuses to compromise, then they open fire on the protests and soon after that, shit really goes down. And in some Black Helicopter-type scenario (which is what you're probably thinking of), the US would most likely cut out mass media (which is incredibly easy to do), so the population would be deprived of information. And information is power as we all know.I honestly don't disagree that if there ever is a civil war scenario in the United States, people probably won't know what's going on. I think, though, it'd be because of the mass media. Painting any opposition as "domestic right-wing extremists" is not hard with corporate media that presents your average idiot with the illusion of honesty.I can see a lot of military defections, though, unless this hypothetical government is leftist in nature. I know grunts, they'll know what's up. American military culture is not comparable to any Arab military, and our populace is much more interconnected than Syrians. Either way, having lots of rooty tooty point and shooties around wouldn't exactly be a huge disadvantage for a resistance movement.
Quote from: Arm The Mob on March 26, 2015, 07:35:04 PMQuote from: GethKhilafah on March 26, 2015, 07:32:56 PMQuote from: Arm The Mob on March 26, 2015, 07:27:09 PMQuote from: GethKhilafah on March 26, 2015, 07:19:39 PMQuote from: Maverick on March 26, 2015, 07:02:14 PMQuote from: GethKhilafah on March 26, 2015, 06:21:15 PMThe US military has prepared for literally every contingency, even a goddamn Zombie Apocalypse. What gives you any idea that some crappy conspiracy theorist militia could take down the strongest military on Earth?Because the U.S. military is composed of those crappy conspiracy theorists and relies on them for funding.Uh, what?I think that the best-trained, best-equipped, and second largest military force in the world could defeat 500,000 to a million angry redneck insurgents with shotguns.>implying the US military isn't made up of 50% crazy rednecks>implying enlisted who joined for college money would actually be willing to fire on American citizens that aren't MuslimsOh come on. Let's look at Syria's military during their little equivalent to your hypothetical scenario. 75% of their army are poorly trained, poorly equipped, unmotivated conscripts who went to war against their own war more blatantly than the US could ever do it, and only a third of their Army ever defected or sabotaged their own efforts. And 4 years later, they're holding their own ground against the 40% of the populace who wants to see them dead. God, they're so bad, that any citizen who can get their hands on an AK is pretty much equal to one of their soldiers.If one of the most shittiest and poorly motivated militaries on Earth was able to hold together in blatant war against the citizens they're supposed to be protecting with only a third of them defecting (and defections have stopped), what makes you think one of the most motivated, best-equipped, and overall best military couldn't do the same? Not to mention peer pressure within the military to stay in. Why should soldiers abandon all their friends they've made in the military, and pretty much their entire life, just to join some insurgent movement which could be better or worse than what they're in right now.FFS, if the US military went to war against its own people, you'd probably have a recruitment spike because people don't want to be killed/enslaved and because misguided patriotism is so rampant in this country.Are you seriously comparing the United States of America to a country that literally only exists because the colonial powers drew its borders the wrong way?Yes I am. And that is not relevant to anything whatsoever. If anything, that'd strengthen the legitimacy of the US military since they've existed since even before the US officially declared independence.In all probability, this is how wars against countries' populace tend to go down. There are mass protests, then the Government refuses to compromise, then they open fire on the protests and soon after that, shit really goes down. And in some Black Helicopter-type scenario (which is what you're probably thinking of), the US would most likely cut out mass media (which is incredibly easy to do), so the population would be deprived of information. And information is power as we all know.
Quote from: GethKhilafah on March 26, 2015, 07:39:26 PMAnd in some Black Helicopter-type scenario (which is what you're probably thinking of), the US would most likely cut out mass media (which is incredibly easy to do), so the population would be deprived of information. And information is power as we all know.>internet
"We need more guns in the US!!"
