Quote from: DAS B00T x2 on January 04, 2015, 12:19:26 PMwhy are mods allowed to shitpost in Serious?A better question is: Why the fuck is she still a mod when she was chosen through a bullshit popularity contest from someone who isn't even get friend anymore. Not to mention a lot of people haven't joined because she's a mod.
why are mods allowed to shitpost in Serious?
Yeah also reminder to stay OT, this isn't Anarchy.
Quote from: -Foxy- on January 04, 2015, 12:55:24 PMYeah also reminder to stay OT, this isn't Anarchy.There's nothing really to discuss, though. I quite comprehensively destroyed your position, in part due to your unwillingness to properly defend it and then insist on attacking my understanding of the issue.
You destroyed nothing, all you did was counter it. You've also shown great ignorance of the subject every time you debate it, there's really no point in debating with zionists as I've said.
Quote from: -Foxy- on January 04, 2015, 01:12:55 PMYou destroyed nothing, all you did was counter it. You've also shown great ignorance of the subject every time you debate it, there's really no point in debating with zionists as I've said.Every piece of evidence I've presented you with, you haven't even touched--even where it explicitly refuted a claim you made. If you want to retreat into your shell everybody pulls out something which demonstrates you to be wrong, then go ahead. But you should probably expect the possibility people will take you less seriously whenever you discuss a serious topic.
Except you didn't demonstrate that I'm wrong. You dismissed my posts.
Kiyo's favorite songYouTube
While I don't support Israel in the slightest, Meta has some damn good points that are hard to refute.I don't think Israel is on the moral high ground in this ever-lasting battle, but nor is Palestine (or at least those who represent them, Hamas). Both have rolled down that hill, and are at the bottom slinging pig shit at each other.
I have to be honest with myself and say that the Israelis--home to a demographic of people to which the world has consistently shown genocidal intentions, and has been attacked constantly since the conception of their country--compared to the Palestinians--radical, fundamentalist Muslims who have shown support for anti-Semitic and, occasionally, genocidal groups/individuals--would be preferable.
not Israels "minimum" which seems to break 1000 every conflict
Quote from: SuperIrish on January 04, 2015, 05:27:45 PMnot Israels "minimum" which seems to break 1000 every conflictI'll refer you to the points before about how Hamas fires rockets from residential areas and from besides schools and hospitals. Hamas wants high casualties so they can point to Israel and shout oppression.
If that's the case then why doesn't Israel send in elite teams to neutralist the rockets?
Bombarding Gaza with rockets only makes them the greater of the two evils. And considering how they don't care about Palestinian civilian casualties (given how their soldiers love to shoot children and all)
Quote from: Kiyohime on January 04, 2015, 05:40:23 PMIf that's the case then why doesn't Israel send in elite teams to neutralist the rockets? We aren't talking about SAM sites, here, replying to artillery with artillery is the quickest and most efficient way of removing these weapons; otherwise they'd just fire and move and none of Hamas's ordinance would actually be dealt with. Also, "elite teams" couldn't stealthily move through the highly urbanised Strip without I) alerting the enemy to their presence or II) being attacked by random Palestinians. I mean, these are the people who--upon receiving warning from Israel regarding impending artillery--climb onto their roofs voluntarily.QuoteBombarding Gaza with rockets only makes them the greater of the two evils. And considering how they don't care about Palestinian civilian casualties (given how their soldiers love to shoot children and all)Well that's not surprising seeing how Palestinian fighters use their women and children as human shields, so I'd expect some casualties of that description. Now the fighters who do this know one of two things: first, that this will deter the Israeli soldiers (can you imagine how morbid and comical it would be for an Israeli to think holding up an Israeli woman or child would deter a Hamas fighter), or that they will be able to claim the Israeli's are indiscriminately murdering women and children CQC-style.
So all the reports of Israelis indiscriminately shooting children is what? BS?
Quote from: Kiyohime on January 04, 2015, 05:51:05 PMSo all the reports of Israelis indiscriminately shooting children is what? BS?No, I didn't even remotely imply that. It's just like My Lai--sometimes soldiers get overheated in war and just lose it. Except I've never heard of anything as bad as My Lai come out of Gaza. The point is that Palestinian fighters actively encourage this behaviour by getting the Israeli's to retaliate and cause damage to urbanised areas and by using their own people as human shields. They want indiscriminate murder because it advances their ideology and their goals. It's a tragedy that it ever happens, of course, but it doesn't change the fact that Hamas implicitly encourages this by their behaviour. Fuck, can you imagine how much indiscriminate murder there would be of Israelis (maybe even Arab Israelis, too) if Hamas and their broad Palestinian support base were allowed to do whatever they want to them. That's pretty much the position Israel is in, now, and to deny that they're showing incredible restraint under intense international scrutiny is just to misunderstand the whole situation.
You've never Been to the region and you've not seen it with your own eyes.
Quote from: Kiyohime on January 04, 2015, 06:05:05 PMYou've never Been to the region and you've not seen it with your own eyes.I hate to be that guy, but have you?
Quote from: SuperIrish on January 04, 2015, 06:17:00 PMQuote from: Kiyohime on January 04, 2015, 06:05:05 PMYou've never Been to the region and you've not seen it with your own eyes.I hate to be that guy, but have you? I wouldn't have used that statement if I hadn't.
Quote from: Kiyohime on January 04, 2015, 06:19:50 PMQuote from: SuperIrish on January 04, 2015, 06:17:00 PMQuote from: Kiyohime on January 04, 2015, 06:05:05 PMYou've never Been to the region and you've not seen it with your own eyes.I hate to be that guy, but have you? I wouldn't have used that statement if I hadn't.May I ask where? Genuinely curious, my Dad was in Israel in the 80's (whenever the SA apartheid was around).
Quote from: Kiyohime on January 04, 2015, 06:19:50 PMQuote from: SuperIrish on January 04, 2015, 06:17:00 PMQuote from: Kiyohime on January 04, 2015, 06:05:05 PMYou've never Been to the region and you've not seen it with your own eyes.I hate to be that guy, but have you? I wouldn't have used that statement if I hadn't.You do realise pretty much all warzones are horrible, right? That doesn't give you any sort of knowledge which I don't possess, besides local geography. You may feel emotionally closer to the human suffering in the region, but that doesn't give you the right to just assume that Israeli is wholly--or even mainly--responsible for the suffering, and judging by the fact that you went on an aid mission to Gaza it doesn't seem all that unreasonable to think you had some pre-conceived anti-Israeli sentiments prior to the trip in the first place. I'm assuming you opposed the 2003 war in Iraq and the War in Afghanistan. Now, if I had been to Iraqi Kurdistan under Hussein and seen the misery and bloodshed, would that give me any more epistemic authority than you? Of course not. If I had been to Kabul under the Taliban, would it give me some sort of authority over your opposition to the War? No, of course not. What matters are the facts, not what biases you feel were confirmed while over in the region.
You are truly a wise man.
3) Israel bares most of the blame for the death and suffering in the area
4) Yeah I opposed the invasion of Iraq, but the invasion wasn't about "saving the kurds", it was about "the WMDs".
5) The facts are more supportive of the Palestinians if you look at un-biased sources and history.
If it wasn't for Israels actions Hamas would never have existed.
"The moral highground"
