"There is no female Mozart because there is no female Jack The Ripper"

Mordo · September 10, 2015, 06:41:30 PM

Thoughts on this? The quote is from feminist Camille Paglia in which she is referencing the IQ distribution between males and females. She posits that the male IQ is more skewered, resulting in a larger number of acutely intelligent males but also more idiots. Whereas females, on average, are more likely to cluster around the mean.

Is there any truth to this? Is there indeed a basis for biological determinism between the sexes in regards to intelligence?

maverick · September 10, 2015, 06:44:29 PM

How is Jack the Ripper an idiot if he never got caught?

Cheat · September 10, 2015, 06:45:13 PM

...so is she implying Jack the Ripper was an idiot?

eggsalad · September 10, 2015, 06:46:17 PM

I would say this has a lot more to do with levels of aggression and how that influences behavior and passion than intelligence. IQ is shit anyways. A good number of murderers are high IQ or high functioning psychotics. It might also have to do with females tending to be more social, or at least more susceptible to peer pressure, while males tend to be better at developing complexes that defend them from that leveling force.

Even more probably why these extremes exist, women are pressured into becoming mothers and raising children, which favors mediocrity, while men are pressured into developing at their field of work, which favors excellence.

Mordo · September 10, 2015, 06:50:09 PM

Quote from: eggsalad on September 10, 2015, 06:46:17 PM

I would say this has a lot more to do with levels of aggression and how that influences behavior and passion than intelligence. IQ is shit anyways. A good number of murderers are high IQ or high functioning psychotics. It might also have to do with females tending to be more social, or at least more susceptible to peer pressure, while males tend to be better at developing complexes that defend them from that leveling force.

How is IQ shit? It's the best method we have for measuring systematizing behaviour, if that's what you consider to constitute intelligence.

eggsalad · September 10, 2015, 06:55:02 PM

Quote from: 外ギン AVIATION on September 10, 2015, 06:50:09 PM

Quote from: eggsalad on September 10, 2015, 06:46:17 PM
I would say this has a lot more to do with levels of aggression and how that influences behavior and passion than intelligence. IQ is shit anyways. A good number of murderers are high IQ or high functioning psychotics. It might also have to do with females tending to be more social, or at least more susceptible to peer pressure, while males tend to be better at developing complexes that defend them from that leveling force.
How is IQ shit? It's the best method we have for measuring systematizing behaviour, if that's what you consider to constitute intelligence.

Doesn't it usually lend itself to mathematical ability?
I haven't taken the test myself so I wouldn't know.

Mordo · September 10, 2015, 07:05:31 PM

Quote from: eggsalad on September 10, 2015, 06:55:02 PM

Quote from: 外ギン AVIATION on September 10, 2015, 06:50:09 PM
Quote from: eggsalad on September 10, 2015, 06:46:17 PM
I would say this has a lot more to do with levels of aggression and how that influences behavior and passion than intelligence. IQ is shit anyways. A good number of murderers are high IQ or high functioning psychotics. It might also have to do with females tending to be more social, or at least more susceptible to peer pressure, while males tend to be better at developing complexes that defend them from that leveling force.
How is IQ shit? It's the best method we have for measuring systematizing behaviour, if that's what you consider to constitute intelligence.
Doesn't it usually lend itself to mathematical ability?
I haven't taken the test myself so I wouldn't know.

Well if your parameters for intelligence is the ability to systematize and utilize spatial awareness then IQ is pretty good at gauging that.

The Lord Slide Rule · September 10, 2015, 07:08:59 PM

Quote from: eggsalad on September 10, 2015, 06:55:02 PM

Quote from: 外ギン AVIATION on September 10, 2015, 06:50:09 PM
Quote from: eggsalad on September 10, 2015, 06:46:17 PM
I would say this has a lot more to do with levels of aggression and how that influences behavior and passion than intelligence. IQ is shit anyways. A good number of murderers are high IQ or high functioning psychotics. It might also have to do with females tending to be more social, or at least more susceptible to peer pressure, while males tend to be better at developing complexes that defend them from that leveling force.
How is IQ shit? It's the best method we have for measuring systematizing behaviour, if that's what you consider to constitute intelligence.
Doesn't it usually lend itself to mathematical ability?
I haven't taken the test myself so I wouldn't know.

It's not totally useless but IIRC it's supposedly not all its cracked up to be.

I feel like Jack is a bad example seeing as no one knows his identity so we have no way of gauging his IQ, other than the fact that psychopaths tend to be of higher IQ than average.

Is she just drawing this from an IQ chart? General stats? What kind of sample size is she working with?

eggsalad · September 10, 2015, 07:19:32 PM

Quote from: 外ギン AVIATION on September 10, 2015, 07:05:31 PM

Quote from: eggsalad on September 10, 2015, 06:55:02 PM
Quote from: 外ギン AVIATION on September 10, 2015, 06:50:09 PM
Quote from: eggsalad on September 10, 2015, 06:46:17 PM
I would say this has a lot more to do with levels of aggression and how that influences behavior and passion than intelligence. IQ is shit anyways. A good number of murderers are high IQ or high functioning psychotics. It might also have to do with females tending to be more social, or at least more susceptible to peer pressure, while males tend to be better at developing complexes that defend them from that leveling force.
How is IQ shit? It's the best method we have for measuring systematizing behaviour, if that's what you consider to constitute intelligence.
Doesn't it usually lend itself to mathematical ability?
I haven't taken the test myself so I wouldn't know.
Well if your parameters for intelligence is the ability to systematize and utilize spatial awareness then IQ is pretty good at gauging that.

I feel like, in this discussion at least, those aren't very accurate parameters. A person can be exceptional for a lot of reasons that aren't based on those things.

Mordo · September 10, 2015, 07:22:20 PM

Quote from: le peanut butter man xd on September 10, 2015, 07:08:59 PM

Is she just drawing this from an IQ chart? General stats? What kind of sample size is she working with?

http://subjectpool.com/ed_papers/2007/Deary2007Intelligence451-456_Brother_sister_sex_differences.pdf
Sample size is about 1000. I assume this is where she gets the data from.

It must be noted however, that both males and females did better in different categories, but overall, the males had a higher variance in intelligence.

Mordo · September 10, 2015, 07:26:08 PM

Quote from: eggsalad on September 10, 2015, 07:19:32 PM

Quote from: 外ギン AVIATION on September 10, 2015, 07:05:31 PM
Quote from: eggsalad on September 10, 2015, 06:55:02 PM
Quote from: 外ギン AVIATION on September 10, 2015, 06:50:09 PM
Quote from: eggsalad on September 10, 2015, 06:46:17 PM
I would say this has a lot more to do with levels of aggression and how that influences behavior and passion than intelligence. IQ is shit anyways. A good number of murderers are high IQ or high functioning psychotics. It might also have to do with females tending to be more social, or at least more susceptible to peer pressure, while males tend to be better at developing complexes that defend them from that leveling force.
How is IQ shit? It's the best method we have for measuring systematizing behaviour, if that's what you consider to constitute intelligence.
Doesn't it usually lend itself to mathematical ability?
I haven't taken the test myself so I wouldn't know.
Well if your parameters for intelligence is the ability to systematize and utilize spatial awareness then IQ is pretty good at gauging that.
I feel like, in this discussion at least, those aren't very accurate parameters. A person can be exceptional for a lot of reasons that aren't based on those things.

Don't necessarily disagree, but considering our society heavily relies on those kind of aptitudes, IQ can be a good overall indicator.

The Lord Slide Rule · September 10, 2015, 07:39:01 PM

Quote from: 外ギン AVIATION on September 10, 2015, 07:22:20 PM

Quote from: le peanut butter man xd on September 10, 2015, 07:08:59 PM
Is she just drawing this from an IQ chart? General stats? What kind of sample size is she working with?
http://subjectpool.com/ed_papers/2007/Deary2007Intelligence451-456_Brother_sister_sex_differences.pdf
Sample size is about 1000. I assume this is where she gets the data from.

It must be noted however, that both males and females did better in different categories, but overall, the males had a higher variance in intelligence.

That gives a margin of error of about 3%.

I don't know what margin of error is acceptable in sociology so I guess that doesn't really help. . .

But given that IQ is only really useful at gauging certain aspects of intelligence, I'm not very convinced.

rC · September 10, 2015, 09:48:35 PM

she's proof of the stupidity of the average woman

Verbatim · September 10, 2015, 09:54:59 PM

As a feminist, I'm not sure what she's quite getting at without the full context of the quote.

And I don't trust you, at ALL, to have presented her message fairly, so... Guess I'll do some digging, but I'll probably lose interest.

Luciana · September 10, 2015, 11:29:45 PM

Quote from: Exterminator Sparkles on September 10, 2015, 06:44:29 PM

How is Jack the Ripper an idiot if he never got caught?

Hahahahhahahahaaha

Now you're just being nasty!

big sponge · September 11, 2015, 01:11:31 AM

So like

What the fuck was Elizabeth Bathory then?

Mr. Psychologist · September 11, 2015, 04:00:26 AM

Call this a hunch, but I imagine it might have something to do with psychological abnormalities and their distribution between the sexes.

With regards to things like Aspergers and Autism (ASD) there is a heavy bias in favour of men, same goes for biological psychopaths (i.e brain abnormalities) from what I remember. It would make some sense for one half of the species (i.e the non child-bearing one) to be used for evolutionary experiments to see what works and what doesn't because it puts the rest of the species at less of a risk.

So despite my distaste for people who retrospectively diagnose famous scientists, chances are they aren't too far off the mark for a few of them.

I'll elaborate on this if I survive my driving lesson.