Quote from: Jocephalopod on May 04, 2015, 06:31:17 PM

Quote from: Not Comms Officer on May 04, 2015, 06:17:56 PM

Quote from: Jocephalopod on May 04, 2015, 06:15:42 PM

Quote from: Not Comms Officer on May 04, 2015, 06:11:02 PM

Quote from: Jocephalopod on May 04, 2015, 06:10:07 PM

Quote from: Not Comms Officer on May 04, 2015, 06:05:59 PM

I'm not justifying these shootings, but...

What the hell did these people expect to happen?

don't worry



the crops are safe

That was literally what the event was.

I don't who was more sad and deranged: the people hosting the event or the gunmen. Cause this event was clearly made with a greater agenda in mind.

I would have to go with the gunmen. You can't really fault the people running the thing as they were obviously prepared for shit to go down.

it's not like lives weren't saved

Yeah, but it's so incredibly easy to launch a gun attack here. And if the people hosting the event had so much security hired, it's probable that they wanted the gunmen to come, and then use that as a reason to intensify the already rampant Islamophobia going on in the world.

The gunmen weren't affiliated with al-Qaeda or IS. They were just lone gunmen who pledged "allegiance" to IS the instant before they launched the attack.

if they pledged "allegiance" to IS before the attack, then they are affiliated with the group. I'm not exactly sure they have a signup sheet.

whether the people running the thing wanted the gunmen to come is based on the personal outlook of the situation. They could have just as easily justified the heightened security with the recent charlie hebdo shootings over the same issue, which is what this even was honoring in the first place.

it's not like there isn't a problem with radical Muslims in the world. and when basic human rights such as freedom of speech are silenced because of such a threat, I commend anyone stupid/brave enough to put themselves in a position of danger to uphold dat shit.

There's a difference between shouting "I GIVE BAY'AH TO THE ISLAMIC STATE TIME TO MARTYR MYSELF ALLAHU AKBAR" on twitter immediately before going on an attempted spree and actually being planted in by the group and actively coordinating with the group for months before the attack happened.

This attack was really poorly executed, and it was clearly spontaneous. Hell, there was only one injured security guard, and the only two dead were the attackers.

isn't that a good thing?

Quote from: Not Comms Officer on May 04, 2015, 06:46:32 PM

Quote from: DAS B00T DAS B00T on May 04, 2015, 06:44:40 PM

Quote from: Not Comms Officer on May 04, 2015, 06:40:31 PM

And the globs and globs of heavily armed security were there for what reason then?

The venue told the organization that they would not host such a controversial event without an incredible amount of security provided and paid for by the organization.

Then there's where the organization became without a doubt aware that what they were doing would infuriate a lot of people.

Hell, why the fuck would they even host a stupid picture-drawing contest of Muhammed if the aim wasn't to piss of Muslims?

Because that was the aim. SIOA, less radically known as American Freedom Defense Initiative is listed as an anti-islam hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center. That said, what they did wasn't really illegal, just kinda on par with WBC tier scummery. And with that said, the only people still in the wrong are our two freelance soldiers of Allah who died doing what they love.

Exactly

That's the point that I'm giving. That the people who hosted the event wanted this attack to happen. Or at least some sort of violent outburst from the Muslim community.

Quote from: Not Comms Officer on May 04, 2015, 06:40:31 PM

Quote from: challengerX on May 04, 2015, 06:36:03 PM

Quote from: Not Comms Officer on May 04, 2015, 06:29:38 PM

Quote from: challengerX on May 04, 2015, 06:28:31 PM

I see Comms is here telling us to feel bad for the poor, provoked Muslims. Poor murderers.

I never said that.

I'm saying that the people hosting the event are fucking retards who wanted the shooting to happen.

Nope, they're just drawing pictures. If Muslims are going to be sensitive enough and get so offended they're going to kill people over cartoons, that's on them.

And the globs and globs of heavily armed security were there for what reason then? And come on, you can't just boil it down to just "drawing pictures". If they were smart enough to hire fuck-tons of security, they were smart enough to know that what they're doing is going to get a lot of people to hate them and might actually target them.

They're drawings.

Why the fuck would they even make them if it weren't to try provoking the Muslim community to react violently or have some sort of outburst?

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And the people who launched the attack were just miserable and lonely people who just wanted to be remembered on the newspapers. This retarded picture-drawing contest was just an excuse for them to finally do it. The attack didn't have any sort of solid planning going towards it. I would show you the tweet they made which clearly indicates what I just said is true, but Twitter just loves to delete stuff like that which could actually be useful.

Well isn't that convenient for you.

They're muslims that blew a gasket and decided to kill people for drawing a picture of their so called prophet. There's no excuse.

So the attack was just a spontaneous reaction rather than a planned attack. Islam isn't what caused the people to be radicalized. The fact that their lives sucked is what radicalized them, and they just took Islam as a name for that radicalization. If they weren't going to attack in the name of Islam, they would have attacked in the name of some other ideology at another place and another time.

Quote from: Not Comms Officer on May 04, 2015, 07:02:48 PM

Quote from: challengerX on May 04, 2015, 06:59:39 PM

Quote from: Not Comms Officer on May 04, 2015, 06:40:31 PM

Quote from: challengerX on May 04, 2015, 06:36:03 PM

Quote from: Not Comms Officer on May 04, 2015, 06:29:38 PM

Quote from: challengerX on May 04, 2015, 06:28:31 PM

I see Comms is here telling us to feel bad for the poor, provoked Muslims. Poor murderers.

I never said that.

I'm saying that the people hosting the event are fucking retards who wanted the shooting to happen.

Nope, they're just drawing pictures. If Muslims are going to be sensitive enough and get so offended they're going to kill people over cartoons, that's on them.

And the globs and globs of heavily armed security were there for what reason then? And come on, you can't just boil it down to just "drawing pictures". If they were smart enough to hire fuck-tons of security, they were smart enough to know that what they're doing is going to get a lot of people to hate them and might actually target them.

They're drawings.

Why the fuck would they even make them if it weren't to try provoking the Muslim community to react violently or have some sort of outburst?

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And the people who launched the attack were just miserable and lonely people who just wanted to be remembered on the newspapers. This retarded picture-drawing contest was just an excuse for them to finally do it. The attack didn't have any sort of solid planning going towards it. I would show you the tweet they made which clearly indicates what I just said is true, but Twitter just loves to delete stuff like that which could actually be useful.

Well isn't that convenient for you.

They're muslims that blew a gasket and decided to kill people for drawing a picture of their so called prophet. There's no excuse.

So the attack was just a spontaneous reaction rather than a planned attack. Islam isn't what caused the people to be radicalized. The fact that their lives sucked is what radicalized them, and they just took Islam as a name for that radicalization. If they weren't going to attack in the name of Islam, they would have attacked in the name of some other ideology at another place and another time.

OH MY GOD LOL

You're victim blaming saying they were provoking the Muslim community while at the same time acting as if the fact that they were followers of Islam is irrelevant.

Please, show me all this proof you have that their lives sucked.

Oh, I'd absolutely love to show you this proof, but as I stated before, their Twitter account was deleted, so there goes everything useful that could have been learned about the psychological profiles of the attackers. So I'll just refer to another person very similar to these attackers. Jihadi John.

He was a very lonely and sad person growing up (lots of articles I read made a point of this). Then he adopted radical Islam so he could feel like a member of a community. Then he goes over to Islamic State to kill under the name of his new identity. Why do you think he loves killing Westerners so much?

Which is can be put back into the story of these attackers, and many other attackers as well as people who go over to Islamic State.. They adopt Islam as a new identity, then they kill in the name of their adopted identity.

Fucking Jews. We were all just about to get your expert opinion after you studied these guys' Twitter account for 5 minutes and drew a conclusion based on your own bias.

Okay, so let's instead conclude that Islam is evil and that we should work to convince over a billion people that what they're believing is wrong.

Key point here being he joined an Islamic terror group and was brainwashed by Muslim extremists. This is how toxic ideologies work.

No, key point being that he was a fruit ripe for the picking by Islamic terror groups.

Unless they're, you know, already Muslims that decide to shoot people because they drew a cartoon of their prophet.

There's no excuse or way to twist this to have Islam look peaceful. The religion is violent in and of itself. You don't need to look at ISIS for that. Just look at how women are treated and how Muslim societies are. Where religions minorities are persecuted by the majority of Muslims and the Muslim government, not fringe groups.

I don't think that Islam is a peaceful religion. Not by any means. But what else are we supposed to do? Islam isn't something that you can just vanquish just like that. The most we can do is root out the people who want to use it as a vehicle to launch terror attacks. And trying to fuel the fire by hosting idiotic Muhammed drawing competitions is just going to make the problem worse and give legitimacy to groups like IS.

Now we're getting somewhere.

No, it isn't. Trying to convince over a billion people that their belief system is wrong is logistically impossible to even attempt, let alone succeed in. You're living in a dream world if you think that such a thing could succeed.

Which proves how toxic Islam is.

He was already a radical. He would have found another reason to go and kill people. There are plenty of reasons to go kill people other than Islam. So the best solution would be to find out how to stop people from wanting to kill people, period.

Nope, it weeds out the crazies and makes them look like sensitive babies for killing people over a drawing.

Okay, so let's continue fueling the fire and actually create a religious war. Fuck off.

You said so yourself that protesting in favor of hate groups like the KKK should be outlawed as well as the KKK themselves, yet now you're all of a sudden supporting this generic hate group just because they're against Islam. You should be seeing this as another generic hate group like the KKK needing to be outlawed, yet you are agreeing them because you agree with their ideals.

Quote from: Not Comms Officer on May 04, 2015, 07:39:04 PM

No, it isn't. Trying to convince over a billion people that their belief system is wrong is logistically impossible to even attempt, let alone succeed in. You're living in a dream world if you think that such a thing could succeed.

No, just that they are wrong for believing in that bullshit.

Yeah, and? What good does whining about the religion do?

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He was already a radical. He would have found another reason to go and kill people. There are plenty of reasons to go kill people other than Islam. So the best solution would be to find out how to stop people from wanting to kill people, period.

You sound just like the retards against gun control. "IF YOU BAN GUNS PEOPLE WILL STILL KILL EACH OTHER"

Islamic terror attacks aren't as common as you seem to think they are. They just seem like a bigger threat because Islamic terror attacks are often supported by groups with access to lots of resources like IS and al-Qaeda. Charlie Hebdo was a stellar example of that. And your argument against me is stupid. This isn't like guns against knives/axes. It's like M-16s against Ak-47s. Terrorism kills a lot of people regardless of the ideology and we've seen far more deaths from politically motivated terrorism than Islamic terrorism.

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Okay, so let's continue fueling the fire and actually create a religious war. Fuck off.

They're the ones drawing first blood.

And they're the ones egging them on and pressuring them into drawing first blood. They're nearly as guilty for causing these attacks.

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You said so yourself that protesting in favor of hate groups like the KKK should be outlawed as well as the KKK themselves, yet now you're all of a sudden supporting this generic hate group just because they're against Islam. You should be seeing this as another generic hate group like the KKK needing to be outlawed, yet you are agreeing them because you agree with their ideals.

I don't agree with or support this group.

I do agree with drawing Mohammed as a protest against those who would silence free speech.

Are you seriously this naive? These guys weren't protesting against those who would silence free speech as some grand ideal. These jackasses just wanted to piss off the Muslim community and get them to respond violently like what we just saw. And there's no other possible reason somebody could hold a stupid Muhammed-drawing contest. They're pathetic bigots and nothing more.

veering uncomfortably close to islamophobia here..

veering uncomfortably close to islamophobia here..

That's what I hate about threads like these. They just end up being Islamophobic circlejerks.

Quote from: Not Comms Officer on May 04, 2015, 08:10:41 PM

Quote from: Azumarill on May 04, 2015, 08:04:20 PM

veering uncomfortably close to islamophobia here..

That's what I hate about threads like these. They just end up being Islamophobic circlejerks.

im all for criticism of religion, but when you use vitriol like this its just... i dont even want to read posts so full of hate.

some people would do well to remember that we are all born equal and we all die equal.

Dear God, tell me about it.

Quote from: Azumarill on May 04, 2015, 08:17:04 PM

Quote from: challengerX on May 04, 2015, 08:14:41 PM

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Yet another retarded comparison. So let's keep on allowing hate-mongering events like these to happen and then blame "them damn Mudslimes" once they predictably react to bait such as this.

Victim blaming.

If Muslims react to a drawing with violence, they're garbage. But I already knew this.

this is classic observation bias. 1.6 billion muslims in this world, and you think a few fundamentalist fringe groups and some wackos in first world countries represent islam?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/11434695/Over-a-quarter-of-British-Muslims-have-sympathy-for-the-Charlie-Hebdo-terrorists.-That-is-far-too-many.html

got anything more credible? that proves nothing.