"Better to let 100 guilty men go free than to condemn one innocent person"

Korra | Mythic Inconceivable!
 
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uhhh...

- korrie
How about you don't let the innocent man go to jail in the first place.

 


 
Verbatim
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How about you don't let the innocent man go to jail in the first place.
well, the question being asked is basically, would you rather incarcerate 100 criminals and 1 innocent person, or let all those 100 criminals go free

let's say they're all pedophile rapist murder mega hitlers


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uhhh...

- korrie
How about you don't let the innocent man go to jail in the first place.
well, the question being asked is basically, would you rather incarcerate 100 criminals and 1 innocent person, or let all those 100 criminals go free

let's say they're all pedophile rapist murder mega hitlers
hmm

in that case

lethal injections for everyone!


 
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Can't say I agree. It would depend. I'm not letting a bunch of murderers go to save one person. If  you ask me. With the large amount of prisoners in the US, there's a way to save us all time, space, and money. It's harsh, but people would get used to it. I want prisons to line up all the people they have convicted of murder out in the prison yard. I don't care if it's a line of 100 people. Put a bullet in their heads, all of them. Problem solved. If you're a murderer you don't deserve to live. Fuck getting 10 years or some life sentence. No. A life for a life.
And how did you come to this conclusion?
It's just what I think. Having thousands of murderers living in prison is a waste of time, money, and space. It's as simple as that. Do the world a favor and get rid of them.


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"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
β€”Judge Aaron Satie
β€”β€”Carmen
Can't say I agree. It would depend. I'm not letting a bunch of murderers go to save one person. If  you ask me. With the large amount of prisoners in the US, there's a way to save us all time, space, and money. It's harsh, but people would get used to it. I want prisons to line up all the people they have convicted of murder out in the prison yard. I don't care if it's a line of 100 people. Put a bullet in their heads, all of them. Problem solved. If you're a murderer you don't deserve to live. Fuck getting 10 years or some life sentence. No. A life for a life.
And how did you come to this conclusion?
It's just what I think. Having thousands of murderers living in prison is a waste of time, money, and space. It's as simple as that. Do the world a favor and get rid of them.
Homeless people are a waste of space, they just eat, drink, and tarnish our poverty statistics. Let's kill them all!

Utilitarianists are retarded.


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Homeless people are a waste of space, they just eat, drink, and tarnish our poverty statistics. Let's kill them all!

Utilitarianists are retarded.
If they really caused sufficient harm to society to outweigh the impact of taking a life, which they don't, which is why you don't think that's a good idea. For comparison, how do you feel about the morality of killing an enemy combatant in the middle of a firefight on the front line of a war?  How about assisted suicide for the suffering and terminally ill?  If you think it's okay to kill someone in either of those two cases you obviously don't agree with a universal maxim against killing.

Sweeping moral ultimatums (such as: we must never ever under any circumstances convict an innocent person) sound nice but become pretty useless when almost any pair of them can be made to contradict each other.  They're useful as heuristics but the underlying sentiments they embody have a utilitarian basis.  (or they were just bogus to begin with, looking at you 'homosexuality is a sin!' et al)


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"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
β€”Judge Aaron Satie
β€”β€”Carmen
Homeless people are a waste of space, they just eat, drink, and tarnish our poverty statistics. Let's kill them all!

Utilitarianists are retarded.
If they really caused sufficient harm to society to outweigh the impact of taking a life, which they don't, which is why you don't think that's a good idea. For comparison, how do you feel about the morality of killing an enemy combatant in the middle of a firefight on the front line of a war?  How about assisted suicide for the suffering and terminally ill?  If you think it's okay to kill someone in either of those two cases you obviously don't agree with a universal maxim against killing.

Sweeping moral ultimatums (such as: we must never ever under any circumstances convict an innocent person) sound nice but become pretty useless when almost any pair of them can be made to contradict each other.  They're useful as heuristics but the underlying sentiments they embody have a utilitarian basis.  (or they were just bogus to begin with, looking at you 'homosexuality is a sin!' et al)
I don't have a universal maxim against killing, I have one against murder. Killing someone in self-defense or who has a desire to be killed isn't murder. Killing a prisoner or someone on their knees, who doesn't want to die, is.
Last Edit: April 25, 2016, 05:55:19 PM by ALIE


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I don't have a universal maxim against killing, I have one against murder. Killing someone in self-defense or who has a desire to be killed isn't murder. Killing a prisoner or someone on their knees, who doesn't want to die, is.
How did you come to these conclusions if you think doing so by weighing the consequences of the same action in those different situations is the wrong way to do it?


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Homeless people are a waste of space, they just eat, drink, and tarnish our poverty statistics. Let's kill them all!

Utilitarianists are retarded.
If they really caused sufficient harm to society to outweigh the impact of taking a life, which they don't, which is why you don't think that's a good idea. For comparison, how do you feel about the morality of killing an enemy combatant in the middle of a firefight on the front line of a war?  How about assisted suicide for the suffering and terminally ill?  If you think it's okay to kill someone in either of those two cases you obviously don't agree with a universal maxim against killing.

Sweeping moral ultimatums (such as: we must never ever under any circumstances convict an innocent person) sound nice but become pretty useless when almost any pair of them can be made to contradict each other.  They're useful as heuristics but the underlying sentiments they embody have a utilitarian basis.  (or they were just bogus to begin with, looking at you 'homosexuality is a sin!' et al)
I don't have a universal maxim against killing, I have one against murder. Killing someone in self-defense or who has a desire to be killed isn't murder. Killing a prisoner or someone on their knees, who doesn't want to die, is.
It's really simple. A murderer doesn't deserve to live. Especially those who do it just because. You're completely missing the point. Why should I pay for some murderer to live his life locked away? That's fucking stupid. If that prisoner didn't want to die, then he shouldn't have killed anyone.


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"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
β€”Judge Aaron Satie
β€”β€”Carmen
I don't have a universal maxim against killing, I have one against murder. Killing someone in self-defense or who has a desire to be killed isn't murder. Killing a prisoner or someone on their knees, who doesn't want to die, is.
How did you come to these conclusions if you think doing so by weighing the consequences of the same action in those different situations is the wrong way to do it?
Consequences don't matter, the act itself matters. In wartime combat and self-assisted suicide, there's consent involved. You sign up for the military, knowing and expecting that you might get shot. You ask a doctor to kill you, knowing you'll die.

With people on death row, there's no consent. They don't want to die, and they're not in a position where it's life or death. The executioner, the government, doesn't have their life in danger and are forced to kill the prisoner like a soldier is with the enemy.


Gatortag | Heroic Posting Rampage
 
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I don't have a universal maxim against killing, I have one against murder. Killing someone in self-defense or who has a desire to be killed isn't murder. Killing a prisoner or someone on their knees, who doesn't want to die, is.
How did you come to these conclusions if you think doing so by weighing the consequences of the same action in those different situations is the wrong way to do it?
Consequences don't matter, the act itself matters. In wartime combat and self-assisted suicide, there's consent involved. You sign up for the military, knowing and expecting that you might get shot. You ask a doctor to kill you, knowing you'll die.

With people on death row, there's no consent. They don't want to die, and they're not in a position where it's life or death. The executioner, the government, doesn't have their life in danger and are forced to kill the prisoner like a soldier is with the enemy.
It's great isn't it? Ridding the world of one scum at a time. Just too slowly and too picky about who to do it to. Euthanasia should be saved for other things. A bullet to the head for the prisoner is all their worth.


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"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
β€”Judge Aaron Satie
β€”β€”Carmen
I don't have a universal maxim against killing, I have one against murder. Killing someone in self-defense or who has a desire to be killed isn't murder. Killing a prisoner or someone on their knees, who doesn't want to die, is.
How did you come to these conclusions if you think doing so by weighing the consequences of the same action in those different situations is the wrong way to do it?
Consequences don't matter, the act itself matters. In wartime combat and self-assisted suicide, there's consent involved. You sign up for the military, knowing and expecting that you might get shot. You ask a doctor to kill you, knowing you'll die.

With people on death row, there's no consent. They don't want to die, and they're not in a position where it's life or death. The executioner, the government, doesn't have their life in danger and are forced to kill the prisoner like a soldier is with the enemy.
It's great isn't it? Ridding the world of one scum at a time. Just too slowly and too picky about who to do it to. Euthanasia should be saved for other things. A bullet to the head for the prisoner is all their worth.
People like you need to stop playing video games. Every life is valuable, and the volition of the life is what gives it meaning. No one has the obligation to live, but no one has the obligation to die.


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I don't have a universal maxim against killing, I have one against murder. Killing someone in self-defense or who has a desire to be killed isn't murder. Killing a prisoner or someone on their knees, who doesn't want to die, is.
How did you come to these conclusions if you think doing so by weighing the consequences of the same action in those different situations is the wrong way to do it?
Consequences don't matter, the act itself matters. In wartime combat and self-assisted suicide, there's consent involved. You sign up for the military, knowing and expecting that you might get shot. You ask a doctor to kill you, knowing you'll die.

With people on death row, there's no consent. They don't want to die, and they're not in a position where it's life or death. The executioner, the government, doesn't have their life in danger and are forced to kill the prisoner like a soldier is with the enemy.
It's great isn't it? Ridding the world of one scum at a time. Just too slowly and too picky about who to do it to. Euthanasia should be saved for other things. A bullet to the head for the prisoner is all their worth.
People like you need to stop playing video games. Every life is valuable, and the volition of the life is what gives it meaning. No one has the obligation to live, but no one has the obligation to die.
I completely agree that every life is valuable. Which is why prisoners convicted of murder should have theirs taken away. It really is doing the world a favor, no matter how bad that sounds.


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"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
β€”Judge Aaron Satie
β€”β€”Carmen
I completely agree that every life is valuable. Which is why prisoners convicted of murder should have theirs taken away. It really is doing the world a favor, no matter how bad that sounds.
"I agree that every life is valuable, that's why I condone ending lives."

Just because the murderer disagrees that every life is valuable doesn't mean that they aren't.


Gatortag | Heroic Posting Rampage
 
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I completely agree that every life is valuable. Which is why prisoners convicted of murder should have theirs taken away. It really is doing the world a favor, no matter how bad that sounds.
"I agree that every life is valuable, that's why I condone ending lives."

Just because the murderer disagrees that every life is valuable doesn't mean that they aren't.
Okay give me a reason to let them live other than that their life is valuable. (lol) Their life value dropped to zero the moment they kill an innocent person.


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"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
β€”Judge Aaron Satie
β€”β€”Carmen
I completely agree that every life is valuable. Which is why prisoners convicted of murder should have theirs taken away. It really is doing the world a favor, no matter how bad that sounds.
"I agree that every life is valuable, that's why I condone ending lives."

Just because the murderer disagrees that every life is valuable doesn't mean that they aren't.
Okay give me a reason to let them live other than that their life is valuable. (lol) Their life value dropped to zero the moment they kill an innocent person.
Because the government is not in the business of killing people when there are other options.


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I completely agree that every life is valuable. Which is why prisoners convicted of murder should have theirs taken away. It really is doing the world a favor, no matter how bad that sounds.
"I agree that every life is valuable, that's why I condone ending lives."

Just because the murderer disagrees that every life is valuable doesn't mean that they aren't.
Okay give me a reason to let them live other than that their life is valuable. (lol) Their life value dropped to zero the moment they kill an innocent person.
Because the government is not in the business of killing people when there are other options.
What options? Like let them live off tax payer money till death in a cell? The government isn't in that business. But they should be.


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"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
β€”Judge Aaron Satie
β€”β€”Carmen
What options? Like let them live off tax payer money till death in a cell? The government isn't in that business. But they should be.
As opposed to murder? Of course. And you know that you can put prisoners to work. They can more than pay off the cost of a 10x10 square foot cell, food, and water.


Gatortag | Heroic Posting Rampage
 
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What options? Like let them live off tax payer money till death in a cell? The government isn't in that business. But they should be.
As opposed to murder? Of course. And you know that you can put prisoners to work. They can more than pay off the cost of a 10x10 square foot cell, food, and water.
That's true. I suppose I could be a bit more lenient. So hard labor until they're 60-70 and can't work anymore. Then they can be executed.


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Consequences don't matter, the act itself matters.
This is essentially the point I don't agree with at all.  There's no such thing as an action in itself divorced from its consequences (defined as broadly as possible).  An action with no consequences isn't a thing.  An action is literally defined by how it affects reality through its consequences, there's nothing else for us to care about.

You've made an argument about consent based on intuition but why should I care if its not tied back to anything that actually has something to do with reality?  Even skipping that, unless you've already settled on a separate universal maxim that an individual's consent may never be violated (which you haven't and probably wouldn't try to anyway), then why should I think consent can be a deciding factor in this instance?


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Their life value dropped to zero the moment they kill an innocent person.
no
bad

life has value


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Their life value dropped to zero the moment they kill an innocent person.
no
bad

life has value
Feel free to explain.


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I mean I get that utility is a super nebulous concept that's impossible to measure and can't really be used to objectively guide your behavior but it at least gives you a framework for trying to think about your decisions.
Last Edit: April 25, 2016, 07:26:25 PM by Baha


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Their life value dropped to zero the moment they kill an innocent person.
no
bad

life has value
Feel free to explain.
Suffering is suffering no matter who is suffering.  We should try to minimize the suffering in the world.  In so far as we choose to inflict suffering it should be with the reasonable belief that our actions are justified by mitigating suffering in some other way.
Last Edit: April 25, 2016, 07:28:11 PM by Baha


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Their life value dropped to zero the moment they kill an innocent person.
no
bad

life has value
Feel free to explain.
Suffering is suffering no matter who is suffering.  We should try to minimize the suffering in the world.  In so far as we choose to inflict suffering it should be with the reasonable belief that our actions are justified by mitigating suffering in some other way.
We are. A lot of violent people who go to prison repeat their behaviors in prison and in the real world once they get out. It's not like we have to kill them in a cruel manner. A bullet to the head is not suffering.


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I just don't agree. I believe it depends on the people involved.
Last Edit: April 25, 2016, 09:18:43 PM by Winy