It is a common belief that the Greek government is seeking special treatment relative to other stressed eurozone members. We are not; we are seeking equal treatment.Since the onset of the crisis, our economy has shrunk 26 per cent; unemployment has risen from 8 to 26 per cent; and wages have declined 33 per cent. These outcomes are worse than those experienced by any country during the 1930s and far worse than those projected under the two Greek adjustment programmes. This is why the Greek government has criticised these programmes.Our fiscal adjustment has been larger than in other countries. Since 2009, spending cuts and tax increases amounting to more than 45 per cent of household disposable income have been implemented. In Portugal it was 20 per cent; in Italy and Ireland 15 per cent.Not only have the fiscal measures been larger, but for each percentage point of consolidation, the economy has contracted more. This is because the Greek economy is less open than others; any decline in demand hits domestically produced goods more than imports. Successive rounds of austerity exacerbated the contraction in gross domestic product. And with that the ratio of debt-to-GDP rises, making debt dynamics unmanageable. Greece is borrowing ever more to pay back earlier debts.
Since the onset of the crisis, our economy has shrunk 26 per cent; unemployment has risen from 8 to 26 per cent; and wages have declined 33 per cent.
QuoteSince the onset of the crisis, our economy has shrunk 26 per cent; unemployment has risen from 8 to 26 per cent; and wages have declined 33 per cent.Yeah, I fucking wonder why.If Greece can show actual commitment to the austerity plan given by the Eurozone, then by all means, they deserve a second chance. Given their history though, and the recently elected anti austerity government, it'll be a cold day in hell before that happens.
Greece has a lot of reforms to do. The fact that many citizens were avoiding paying taxes to the Government is pretty much why Greece is in the shit it's in today.They want a Socialist system, but they didn't want to pay any of the costs towards creating one.
What? First of all, members of the government were involved in tax-dodging, secondly, all Greeks that are paying taxes (that is most of Greece anyway) in the recent years have been choked with taxes. Secondly, why should the Greeks pay to save the Greek banks that in turn are doing nothing to improve the situation, or to pay for a corrupt government that basically destroyed any services it offered that were at least working to save its own ass?It begs the question; do you really want to pay for a government that (a) has empty promises (b) is known to be corrupt (c) regardless will follow the measures from Troika and (d) the services will nonetheless get worse, no matter how much you pay.Because that's how it was since 2010 when they "improved" by simply forcing the small fish to pay.Quote from: GethKhilafah on March 18, 2015, 02:45:28 PMGreece has a lot of reforms to do. The fact that many citizens were avoiding paying taxes to the Government is pretty much why Greece is in the shit it's in today.They want a Socialist system, but they didn't want to pay any of the costs towards creating one.
I am including the Government as well in this. My one aunt there (who is in her 80s) had to wait 2 years in line just to get a knee surgery just because she is poor, while all of the rich people simply bribed the doctors so they could get in front of line. Corruption in Greece is horrible, but refusing to pay taxes won't make the situation better at all.
That's the issue, the majority of Greece lives in Athens and the majority of Athens has not so much money anymore. How can people with little money pay the taxes of a government that they naturally hate, and that also would be more than eager to shake them for some cents just to throw in the black pit until the next few months when the payments are due.No, it doesn't improve the situation, but it's not right for people to be treated like idiots by a democratically-elected government.Quote from: GethKhilafah on March 18, 2015, 06:49:02 PMI am including the Government as well in this. My one aunt there (who is in her 80s) had to wait 2 years in line just to get a knee surgery just because she is poor, while all of the rich people simply bribed the doctors so they could get in front of line. Corruption in Greece is horrible, but refusing to pay taxes won't make the situation better at all.
Quote from: GethKhilafah on March 18, 2015, 06:59:02 PMQuote from: Isara on March 18, 2015, 06:50:50 PMThat's the issue, the majority of Greece lives in Athens and the majority of Athens has not so much money anymore. How can people with little money pay the taxes of a government that they naturally hate, and that also would be more than eager to shake them for some cents just to throw in the black pit until the next few months when the payments are due.No, it doesn't improve the situation, but it's not right for people to be treated like idiots by a democratically-elected government.Quote from: GethKhilafah on March 18, 2015, 06:49:02 PMI am including the Government as well in this. My one aunt there (who is in her 80s) had to wait 2 years in line just to get a knee surgery just because she is poor, while all of the rich people simply bribed the doctors so they could get in front of line. Corruption in Greece is horrible, but refusing to pay taxes won't make the situation better at all.I see..Yes, my Athenian relatives are having plenty of experiences involving the Greek Government trying to screw them over financially. Like, another relative of mine who is currently 70, and is living both off of his pension from being a General in the Greek Army, and a pension from him heading a large company is now being forced to sacrifice one of his pensions. And that 80-year old relative I mentioned got screwed out of her only pension, since the Government is trying to claim that she hasn't lived in Greece for the 20 or so years required to receive a pension, when she has been living there for 20 years (she previously lived in Mozambique).And then once you get out of Athens, it instantly gets a lot better.Goddamn, I have so many interesting stories from Greece despite the fact that I've only been there for 4 months total in my life....Anyways, you are right that people shouldn't be treated like idiots by their elected Government. Greece is the single most corrupt country in the EU, and it's fucking terrible.that's impossibleit's literally impossible to be more corrupt than Brussels
Quote from: Isara on March 18, 2015, 06:50:50 PMThat's the issue, the majority of Greece lives in Athens and the majority of Athens has not so much money anymore. How can people with little money pay the taxes of a government that they naturally hate, and that also would be more than eager to shake them for some cents just to throw in the black pit until the next few months when the payments are due.No, it doesn't improve the situation, but it's not right for people to be treated like idiots by a democratically-elected government.Quote from: GethKhilafah on March 18, 2015, 06:49:02 PMI am including the Government as well in this. My one aunt there (who is in her 80s) had to wait 2 years in line just to get a knee surgery just because she is poor, while all of the rich people simply bribed the doctors so they could get in front of line. Corruption in Greece is horrible, but refusing to pay taxes won't make the situation better at all.I see..Yes, my Athenian relatives are having plenty of experiences involving the Greek Government trying to screw them over financially. Like, another relative of mine who is currently 70, and is living both off of his pension from being a General in the Greek Army, and a pension from him heading a large company is now being forced to sacrifice one of his pensions. And that 80-year old relative I mentioned got screwed out of her only pension, since the Government is trying to claim that she hasn't lived in Greece for the 20 or so years required to receive a pension, when she has been living there for 20 years (she previously lived in Mozambique).And then once you get out of Athens, it instantly gets a lot better.Goddamn, I have so many interesting stories from Greece despite the fact that I've only been there for 4 months total in my life....Anyways, you are right that people shouldn't be treated like idiots by their elected Government. Greece is the single most corrupt country in the EU, and it's fucking terrible.
it's literally impossible to be more corrupt than Brussels
Greece isn't the most corrupt country, I think that the crisis simply amplified the underlying issues, and exposed them to the open.http://www.transparency.org/cpi2014/resultsQuote from: Arm The Mob on March 20, 2015, 12:52:28 AMit's literally impossible to be more corrupt than Brussels
Not in the world, but in the EU. Or were you talking to Arm the Mod exclusively?
As if they haven't already had an opportunity to show us they're willing to commit.I don't even understand who let them into the Eurozone in the first place.
"All we ask is that Europe give Greece a chance"
