Daily reminder that Kupo's ban was bullshit

True Turquoise · February 12, 2016, 09:10:35 AM

Quote from: Thunder on February 11, 2016, 12:57:02 AM

Quote from: Decimator Omega on February 11, 2016, 12:54:58 AM
So if you're fucking popular you can break the rules?
Welcome to life.

Its all lies

LC hit me

🂿 · February 12, 2016, 01:09:17 PM

Quote from: True Turquoise on February 12, 2016, 09:10:35 AM

Quote from: Thunder on February 11, 2016, 12:57:02 AM
Quote from: Decimator Omega on February 11, 2016, 12:54:58 AM
So if you're fucking popular you can break the rules?
Welcome to life.
Its all lies

LC hit me

oh.

Verbatim · February 12, 2016, 06:46:33 PM

Quote from: Baha on February 11, 2016, 04:06:28 PM

Where in the rules does it say you can't post your PMs

I looked

Furthermore why would this rule exist. Why should I be expected to be held to secrecy for things someone PMs me. If you don't want me to share something don't PM it to me. Personal information is a separate issue.

If I copy paste a steam convo with a member that doesn't contain any personal information onto sep7 have I also broken some nebulous privacy rule

Shit logic.

With that logic, we shouldn't have any rules at all, because if you don't want x to happen on the Internet, the alternative is to not use the Internet.

February 12, 2016, 08:43:39 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on February 12, 2016, 06:46:33 PM

Quote from: Baha on February 11, 2016, 04:06:28 PM
Where in the rules does it say you can't post your PMs

I looked

Furthermore why would this rule exist. Why should I be expected to be held to secrecy for things someone PMs me. If you don't want me to share something don't PM it to me. Personal information is a separate issue.

If I copy paste a steam convo with a member that doesn't contain any personal information onto sep7 have I also broken some nebulous privacy rule
Shit logic.

With that logic, we shouldn't have any rules at all, because if you don't want x to happen on the Internet, the alternative is to not use the Internet.

So yes? I can't copy paste steam conversations onto here?
And your analogy is wrong. Your response would make sense if I had said it was okay to post PMs because I can always just message them to people on steam instead. But I went at it the opposite direction. I'm only talking about what is okay to do on sep7, not whether the internet at large plays by sep7's rules.

Verbatim · February 12, 2016, 08:50:02 PM

Quote from: Baha on February 12, 2016, 08:43:39 PM

So yes? I can't copy paste steam conversations onto here?

I don't know. I'm not the one who makes those calls. Would I personally do something about that? If it contained sensitive information, obviously yes. Harshly.

If it contained no sensitive information, but wasn't something the third party wanted to be shared on Sep7agon, then I think that's a really dick thing to do, and it probably should be punished as well--although maybe not as harsh.

Quote

I'm only talking about what is okay to do on sep7, not whether the internet at large plays by sep7's rules.

So am I. If you think it's stupid that we can't post PMs, then you should think ALL the rules are stupid.

So, spam should be okay, and if you don't like it, you can just ignore the threads.
Harassment should be okay. If you don't like being harassed, either block them or ignore it.

Why ban anyone for anything?

The point is, posting PMs without permission is a dick thing to do, and when you're acting like a dick on the Internet, you should be banned for it. That's how it should work.

February 12, 2016, 09:05:42 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on February 12, 2016, 08:50:02 PM

Quote
I'm only talking about what is okay to do on sep7, not whether the internet at large plays by sep7's rules.
So am I. If you think it's stupid that we can't post PMs, then you should think ALL the rules are stupid.

So, spam should be okay, and if you don't like it, you can just ignore the threads.
Harassment should be okay. If you don't like being harassed, either block them or ignore it.

Why ban anyone for anything?

The point is, posting PMs without permission is a dick thing to do, and when you're acting like a dick on the Internet, you should be banned for it. That's how it should work.

"I think X rule shouldn't exist" is not the same as "I think none of the rules should exist" and I actually don't understand why you're trying to go down this route if it wasn't in response to my bringing up something outside sep7.

PMs are not a special communications channel for someone to argue with someone else (I don't know the context in which this actually happened so you can correct me if I'm making the wrong inference here, but this sounds pretty likely) and stop them being able to make it public. If they have legitimately revealed private information, that is already against the rules. If they haven't, and the user didn't somehow come to an amicable agreement with this person to keep their conversation private, the user has no reasonable expectation of privacy.

Verbatim · February 12, 2016, 09:11:22 PM

Quote from: Baha on February 12, 2016, 09:05:42 PM

"I think X rule shouldn't exist" is not the same as "I think none of the rules should exist"

It is when your reasons fucking suck, which they do.

Quote

PMs are not a special communications channel for someone to argue with someone else

It's merely the principle of the matter, guy. PMs should be special communication channels. If someone wanted to publicly reveal information, they wouldn't publicly revealed it. There's an unspoken trust pact, and if you violate that, you should be punished.

February 12, 2016, 09:21:54 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on February 12, 2016, 09:11:22 PM

Quote
PMs are not a special communications channel for someone to argue with someone else
It's merely the principle of the matter, guy. PMs should be special communication channels. If someone wanted to publicly reveal information, they wouldn't publicly revealed it. There's an unspoken trust pact, and if you violate that, you should be punished.

There is no principle of the matter to appeal to here. If you send me something and we didn't agree to keep it private and the information in itself is not something obviously private then it is not private, full stop. Especially if you're sending me vitriol. And it's certainly not the only use case for PMs. I guarantee you the phrase "take it to PMs" has appeared on any forum that isn't a ghost town, and not for any privacy reason.

My word of advice to people who feel cheated when this sort of thing happens is maybe don't be so quick to send out communications you would be embarrassed by if made public. Especially if you're antagonizing the person you think is going to keep your secret.

And definitely don't expect me to keep your PMs secret for you.

Verbatim · February 12, 2016, 09:31:08 PM

Quote from: Baha on February 12, 2016, 09:21:54 PM

If you send me something and we didn't agree to keep it private

It's tacitly assumed by the term "PRIVATE MESSAGE." Like I said--it's an unwritten pact.

Quote

And definitely don't expect me to keep your PMs secret for you.

I don't personally care if you share any PMs I send you at all. I'm speaking on behalf of others who don't feel the same way.

February 12, 2016, 10:11:21 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on February 12, 2016, 09:31:08 PM

Quote from: Baha on February 12, 2016, 09:21:54 PM
If you send me something and we didn't agree to keep it private
It's tacitly assumed by the term "PRIVATE MESSAGE." Like I said--it's an unwritten pact.

I think you're a bit confused on that point. Private means you can't read my PMs unless I let you, because you literally cannot access them. It doesn't mean I can't show people my PMs. And PMs you send me are in fact my PMs.

🂿 · February 12, 2016, 10:30:23 PM

Oh hell fucking no.

I'm putting an end to this before Verbatim shits all over this thread.

Mods, requesting lock. This topic is finished.

February 12, 2016, 10:36:08 PM

pls don't

Verbatim · February 12, 2016, 10:42:33 PM

Quote from: Baha on February 12, 2016, 10:11:21 PM

It doesn't mean I can't show people my PMs.

I never said you can't. You're just an asshole if you do, and you deserve to get banned for it.

TB · February 12, 2016, 10:45:35 PM

Quote from: Decimator Omega on February 12, 2016, 10:30:23 PM

Oh hell fucking no.

I'm putting an end to this before Verbatim shits all over this thread.

Mods, requesting lock. This topic is finished.

What's wrong with discussion?

February 12, 2016, 10:49:22 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on February 12, 2016, 10:42:33 PM

Quote from: Baha on February 12, 2016, 10:11:21 PM
It doesn't mean I can't show people my PMs.
I never said you can't. You're just an asshole if you do, and you deserve to get banned for it.

Okay, well I don't agree with giving people a free channel to say whatever they want to someone with a guarantee it can never become public. If you want to have a private conversation with someone that's a decision both parties need to be involved in. If that was in fact what happened in this case then yes, it wasn't okay to post the PMs.