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Messages - ๐Ÿ Aria ๐Ÿ”ฎ

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6961
Gaming / Re: Games You Want (That Are Too Expensive)
« on: October 11, 2015, 11:09:07 PM »
EarthBound is like $10 on the Wii-U eShop.
Digital is a scam.

6962
Serious / Re: Hypothetical: How much would you spend?
« on: October 11, 2015, 02:46:51 PM »
My mother spent $500 in an ER visit for her dog after he got hit by a truck. She ended up spending more afterwards in follow-ups. He was never the same afterwards; if he didn't see you walk up to him or heard loud noises, he would bite you. He would randomly walk up to people and growl at them.

If it was my choice, he would have been put down after he got hit. Animals are never the same after those experiences; they just suffer the rest of their life and you end up thousands of dollars poorer for it.

6963
Gaming / Re: So what's the verdict on Battlefront (if there is one, yet)?
« on: October 11, 2015, 02:03:01 PM »
Well, on the issue of crashing into a hill at 500mph, they could change it so you don't spawn in going 100% speed; maybe compromising at about 70% would solve the issue of accidentally doing bombing runs too fast.

Being that I'm being more awake too, I'd like to also add that not all issues are things that can't be fixed in a patch; it's not hard to add more spawn points, for example, or giving a three second invincibility status on spawn. These things should obviously be discussed, but I wouldn't call the game trash over them. Definitely a drawback, because they are issues, but they aren't nearly on the level of game-breaking.
That could help, as well as making it so you spawn farther out in your fighter, so you also don't get blown up as soon as you start. I would like them to remove the short period where you don't have control of your fighter, because the one time I got in an A-wing I spawned with a TIE heading straight towards me and I crashed because I couldn't move out of the way, and I really don't see how that no movement adds anything.

The game isn't trash over those things, yeah I'd agree, but at the same time when they all get thrown together it can seem like that. Alone, they're not a big deal, but if you are an unlucky SOB and get them back-to-back-to-back it will make you want to sell your platform.
Well, I'm glad that we can agree on that.

6964
Gaming / Re: So what's the verdict on Battlefront (if there is one, yet)?
« on: October 11, 2015, 01:44:38 PM »
Yeah, Star Wars.
What?

It was a joke about me losing track of this thread's contents completely.
Lore and Battlefront Gameplay discussion.

6966
Legend of Legacy, but that comes out on Trusday

6967
Gaming / Re: Games You Want (That Are Too Expensive)
« on: October 11, 2015, 01:10:23 PM »
Metal Gear Ghost Babel
Keep learning nippon, Japanese CIBs run for like $70.

6968
Gaming / Re: So what's the verdict on Battlefront (if there is one, yet)?
« on: October 11, 2015, 01:05:11 PM »
Well, on the issue of crashing into a hill at 500mph, they could change it so you don't spawn in going 100% speed; maybe compromising at about 70% would solve the issue of accidentally doing bombing runs too fast.

Being that I'm being more awake too, I'd like to also add that not all issues are things that can't be fixed in a patch; it's not hard to add more spawn points, for example, or giving a three second invincibility status on spawn. These things should obviously be discussed, but I wouldn't call the game trash over them. Definitely a drawback, because they are issues, but they aren't nearly on the level of game-breaking.

6969
Gaming / Games You Want (That Are Too Expensive)
« on: October 11, 2015, 12:59:25 PM »
What game would you like to own that just costs too much to be a practical purchase?

To start with an obvious example, Earthbound; the game isn't actually rare whatsoever, but cart-only copies sell for $195. Buying it CIB runs at an average of $573 (in comparison, CIB copies of Metal Gear for NES run at about $70).

6970
Gaming / Re: So what's the verdict on Battlefront (if there is one, yet)?
« on: October 11, 2015, 12:51:53 PM »
Only in relation to something mechanical, such as clunky controls or impossibly long button prompts/mashes.

I hate button masher sequences, but they aren't defaulted to being bad; I'm just not a fan of their usual applications. I might say something about them, but it wouldn't affect my perception of the game (unless the games was nothing BUT button mashing sequences)
i see

anyway, i think his issue is simply you calling them "non-issues", with your only qualifier being that there are ways to counteract those issues

like, perhaps he's arguing that there should be more ways to counteract

i haven't played the demo myself, so i feel silly even partaking in this, but yeah
this conversation is intriguing because it deals with that player/game fault relationship
It isn't accurate to just say "counteract",  admittedly; if I wasn't participating on top banter with Tru, and I was honestly arguing the point, I would have worded that more delicately.

Non-issues (on this topic) relate to things that are either unrelated to the gameplay (why are Vader's lines so corny? Why is the Star Destroyer apparently in-atmosphere?), are not the fault of the game itself (kamikaze), or are so petty that it's pointless to argue (can be related to point one; "why are there female stormtroopers on hoth" is a popular reason on /v/ at the moment).
the female stormtroopers are pretty dumb, though.
501st was groundside on Hoth. Most of them were the Fett template of clone.

"Most" being the key word. By the time of Episode IV, most of the Stormtrooper outfit was composed of different clone templates or recruits. It's not against canon to say that some of the stormtroopers on Hoth were female.
The Empire didn't allow females in its military ranks, maybe noncombat roles, but unless they were Palpatine's assassins they weren't there.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/The_Essential_Guide_to_Warfare

They were rare under Palpatine's supervision, apparently no more than three per legion. But they were still a thing.

EDIT: Just linked the book for the sake of pointing out where I got this from. If you're interested in reading about that kind of shit and you don't a have a books-a-million or something with it in stock near you, I'm sure there's a pdf somewhere online.
Is that even canon? Still, it's pretty unfitting with how Palpatine ran his empire and all that.
What is canon at this point? 99% of the things people talk about are covered in the Legacy-EU. I wish they would have left some of it alone, at least the pre-movie universe.

But with this, it's because there was a clone revolt on Kamino (that led to the cloning facilities being destroyed). That's why they stopped making Fett clones and started making a variety of templates and recruiting via propaganda.
Going by old canon, the actual reason was that the Empire switched from purely Kamino to cheaper, mass-produced clones just in time for the battle of Coruscant. These clones were poorer in quality, and the Empire eventually realized that wasn't fantastic to have mass quantities of clones that can't aim for shit, and started the recruitment program were Imperial citizens could finally join the military in direct combat roles. I'm not sure if the recruitment started around the time of the Kamino revolt, but it certainly would've been more of a push for the Empire to recruit.

Also doesn't help that the kid's cartoon show had a habit of constantly fucking up the lore.

But yeah, they're going to do what they want now, and I suppose it's anyone's guess as to what the canon Empire's military qualifications are or were. Still, a solace is that every Stormtrooper in the first 3 films is male.
And the reason why the stopped making Fetts at all was because of the uprising.

I am curious to whether it's still canon. It was mentioned in other media besides BF2, but that was before Legends was a thing. With the way they are going with Rebels (from what I've heard), though, it might end up being T-Canon.

6971
The Flood / Re: Sep7agon.net - The TV Tropes Article
« on: October 11, 2015, 12:13:23 PM »
Verbatim
Characterization Marches On: Verbatim started his internet career as a troll on the Flood known by FishSlapped. He's now a well-known member across all forums for community services, such as the Sep7agon TV Tropes page and the Video Game Review page.
Loony Friends Improve Your Personality: Verb has becoming increasingly adept at taking the piss of a situation over the years, due in no small part to the fact that everyone on Sep7 is irrevocably a shitposter at some point or another.
Negative Nellie: He has a habit of zeroing in on the negative aspects of something. Despite this, his criticisms are usually received positively; when they aren't, refer to He Panned it, Now He Sucks.
Quote Mine: A lot of his posts end up being taken out of context, whether intentionally or not. Leads to invoking The Complainer Is Always Wrong.
Rules Lawyer: He takes the time to read over the rules, enough that he has a proficient understanding of them. More infamously argued before the World Sundering of Bungie.net.
Aww, thanks. I love it. I'll add it straightaway.

lrn2bulletpoints tho
No hair don't care

6972
The Flood / Re: Sep7agon.net - The TV Tropes Article
« on: October 11, 2015, 12:02:23 PM »
Verbatim
Characterization Marches On: Verbatim started his internet career as a troll on the Flood known by FishSlapped. He's now a well-known member across all forums for community services, such as the Sep7agon TV Tropes page and the Video Game Review page.
Loony Friends Improve Your Personality: Verb has becoming increasingly adept at taking the piss of a situation over the years, due in no small part to the fact that everyone on Sep7 is irrevocably a shitposter at some point or another.
Negative Nellie: He has a habit of zeroing in on the negative aspects of something. Despite this, his criticisms are usually received positively; when they aren't, refer to He Panned it, Now He Sucks.
Quote Mine: A lot of his posts end up being taken out of context, whether intentionally or not. Leads to invoking The Complainer Is Always Wrong.
Rules Lawyer: He takes the time to read over the rules, enough that he has a proficient understanding of them. More infamously argued before the World Sundering of Bungie.net.

6973
Gaming / Re: Has a game ever caused you to flip your shit?
« on: October 11, 2015, 01:45:56 AM »
Vidmaster Endure was a bitch with lag.
>tfw you lag out with 4 seconds left on the final bonus round before the achievement pops
Five times

Why was the netcode for ODST so shit?

It didn't like foreign people.
oh

6974
Gaming / Re: So what's the verdict on Battlefront (if there is one, yet)?
« on: October 11, 2015, 01:37:15 AM »
I mean, if we want to go by the "new canon", the fact that EA Battlefront is a Disney-Star Wars licensed product makes it a part of the new story. So if there are female stormtroopers on Hoth... well, there are female stormtroopers on Hoth.

I'd like to be able to provide other instances of support to that claim, but ad you may remember, they didn't really have any stormtrooper slice of life scenes in the OT. Meaning that anything that support the fact that female stormtroopers on Hoth isn't an asspull isn't canon now.
the thing is, i don't think they're gonna spend the effort of giving out an entirely new justification for their existence, you know what i mean

so like

i think it would be fair to assume you could use the EU legends as a platform for foundation/speculation
maybe

like, they've already taken elements from the EU already, right
kylo-ren's lightsaber isn't anything new if you've played one of those silly EU games, right
According to Disney, everything under the Legends brand is considered to be a pseudo-canon account; things happened vaguely the way described, but like folklore, the exact elements of the stories aren't true.

6975
Gaming / Re: So what's the verdict on Battlefront (if there is one, yet)?
« on: October 11, 2015, 01:28:37 AM »
I mean, if we want to go by the "new canon", the fact that EA Battlefront is a Disney-Star Wars licensed product makes it a part of the new story. So if there are female stormtroopers on Hoth... well, there are female stormtroopers on Hoth.

I'd like to be able to provide other instances of support to that claim, but ad you may remember, they didn't really have any stormtrooper slice of life scenes in the OT. Meaning that anything that support the fact that female stormtroopers on Hoth isn't an asspull isn't canon now.

EDIT: "Nothing appears in Star Wars anymore without substantial deliberation, and with no proper "Expanded Universe" in Lucasfilm's current lexicon, the Sullust created by DICE is Sullust. So, in a way, Star Wars: Battlefront is canon after all." So basically, not everything that happens is canon; the rebels winning in Walker Assault on Hoth, for example, is non-canon. But things like Sollust were imagined for the first time in this game, and everything was approved by LucasArts. I'd go ahead and say that means DICE's direction is universe compatible, then.

6976
Gaming / Re: So what's the verdict on Battlefront (if there is one, yet)?
« on: October 11, 2015, 01:25:26 AM »
What is canon at this point?
just the movies + everything disney has put out post-nuke, iirc
I just hate it when a conversation pops up and everything anybody brings up isn't canon anymore.

And yes, it was rhetorical lol.

6977
Gaming / Re: So what's the verdict on Battlefront (if there is one, yet)?
« on: October 11, 2015, 01:20:57 AM »
Only in relation to something mechanical, such as clunky controls or impossibly long button prompts/mashes.

I hate button masher sequences, but they aren't defaulted to being bad; I'm just not a fan of their usual applications. I might say something about them, but it wouldn't affect my perception of the game (unless the games was nothing BUT button mashing sequences)
i see

anyway, i think his issue is simply you calling them "non-issues", with your only qualifier being that there are ways to counteract those issues

like, perhaps he's arguing that there should be more ways to counteract

i haven't played the demo myself, so i feel silly even partaking in this, but yeah
this conversation is intriguing because it deals with that player/game fault relationship
It isn't accurate to just say "counteract",  admittedly; if I wasn't participating on top banter with Tru, and I was honestly arguing the point, I would have worded that more delicately.

Non-issues (on this topic) relate to things that are either unrelated to the gameplay (why are Vader's lines so corny? Why is the Star Destroyer apparently in-atmosphere?), are not the fault of the game itself (kamikaze), or are so petty that it's pointless to argue (can be related to point one; "why are there female stormtroopers on hoth" is a popular reason on /v/ at the moment).
the female stormtroopers are pretty dumb, though.
501st was groundside on Hoth. Most of them were the Fett template of clone.

"Most" being the key word. By the time of Episode IV, most of the Stormtrooper outfit was composed of different clone templates or recruits. It's not against canon to say that some of the stormtroopers on Hoth were female.
The Empire didn't allow females in its military ranks, maybe noncombat roles, but unless they were Palpatine's assassins they weren't there.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/The_Essential_Guide_to_Warfare

They were rare under Palpatine's supervision, apparently no more than three per legion. But they were still a thing.

EDIT: Just linked the book for the sake of pointing out where I got this from. If you're interested in reading about that kind of shit and you don't a have a books-a-million or something with it in stock near you, I'm sure there's a pdf somewhere online.
Is that even canon? Still, it's pretty unfitting with how Palpatine ran his empire and all that.
What is canon at this point? 99% of the things people talk about are covered in the Legacy-EU. I wish they would have left some of it alone, at least the pre-movie universe.

But with this, it's because there was a clone revolt on Kamino (that led to the cloning facilities being destroyed). That's why they stopped making Fett clones and started making a variety of templates and recruiting via propaganda.

6978
Gaming / Re: So what's the verdict on Battlefront (if there is one, yet)?
« on: October 11, 2015, 01:07:55 AM »
Only in relation to something mechanical, such as clunky controls or impossibly long button prompts/mashes.

I hate button masher sequences, but they aren't defaulted to being bad; I'm just not a fan of their usual applications. I might say something about them, but it wouldn't affect my perception of the game (unless the games was nothing BUT button mashing sequences)
i see

anyway, i think his issue is simply you calling them "non-issues", with your only qualifier being that there are ways to counteract those issues

like, perhaps he's arguing that there should be more ways to counteract

i haven't played the demo myself, so i feel silly even partaking in this, but yeah
this conversation is intriguing because it deals with that player/game fault relationship
It isn't accurate to just say "counteract",  admittedly; if I wasn't participating on top banter with Tru, and I was honestly arguing the point, I would have worded that more delicately.

Non-issues (on this topic) relate to things that are either unrelated to the gameplay (why are Vader's lines so corny? Why is the Star Destroyer apparently in-atmosphere?), are not the fault of the game itself (kamikaze), or are so petty that it's pointless to argue (can be related to point one; "why are there female stormtroopers on hoth" is a popular reason on /v/ at the moment).
the female stormtroopers are pretty dumb, though.
501st was groundside on Hoth. Most of them were the Fett template of clone.

"Most" being the key word. By the time of Episode IV, most of the Stormtrooper outfit was composed of different clone templates or recruits. It's not against canon to say that some of the stormtroopers on Hoth were female.
The Empire didn't allow females in its military ranks, maybe noncombat roles, but unless they were Palpatine's assassins they weren't there.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/The_Essential_Guide_to_Warfare

They were rare under Palpatine's supervision, apparently no more than three per legion. But they were still a thing.

EDIT: Just linked the book for the sake of pointing out where I got this from. If you're interested in reading about that kind of shit and you don't a have a books-a-million or something with it in stock near you, I'm sure there's a pdf somewhere online.

6979
Gaming / Re: So what's the verdict on Battlefront (if there is one, yet)?
« on: October 11, 2015, 12:55:31 AM »
Only in relation to something mechanical, such as clunky controls or impossibly long button prompts/mashes.

I hate button masher sequences, but they aren't defaulted to being bad; I'm just not a fan of their usual applications. I might say something about them, but it wouldn't affect my perception of the game (unless the games was nothing BUT button mashing sequences)
i see

anyway, i think his issue is simply you calling them "non-issues", with your only qualifier being that there are ways to counteract those issues

like, perhaps he's arguing that there should be more ways to counteract

i haven't played the demo myself, so i feel silly even partaking in this, but yeah
this conversation is intriguing because it deals with that player/game fault relationship
It isn't accurate to just say "counteract",  admittedly; if I wasn't participating on top banter with Tru, and I was honestly arguing the point, I would have worded that more delicately.

Non-issues (on this topic) relate to things that are either unrelated to the gameplay (why are Vader's lines so corny? Why is the Star Destroyer apparently in-atmosphere?), are not the fault of the game itself (kamikaze), or are so petty that it's pointless to argue (can be related to point one; "why are there female stormtroopers on hoth" is a popular reason on /v/ at the moment).
the female stormtroopers are pretty dumb, though.
501st was groundside on Hoth. Most of them were the Fett template of clone.

"Most" being the key word. By the time of Episode IV, most of the Stormtrooper outfit was composed of different clone templates or recruits. It's not against canon to say that some of the stormtroopers on Hoth were female.

6980
Gaming / Re: So what's the verdict on Battlefront (if there is one, yet)?
« on: October 11, 2015, 12:51:43 AM »
And yes, I was totally telling Tru to kill himself seriously and not in the name of friendly banter.

Spoiler
kys
I told you I already killed myself once in this thread, what more do you want of me?
Gain Brouzouf

Then kys until you content yourself in purgatorial complacency
uhm, how about in a different language this time?
brouzouf gagner. ensuite vous tuer jusqu'ร  ce que vous vous contentez de complaisance purgatoire.
no, that didn't work either.
ๅขž็›Šbrouzouf ใ€‚ๆ€ไบ†่‡ชๅทฑ๏ผŒ็›ดๅˆฐไฝ ๅฎž็Žฐไฝ ็š„็‚ผ็‹ฑๆ˜ฏๆฐธๆ’็š„ๆƒฉ็ฝšใ€‚
Think we might be getting closer
brouzouf ๋ฅผ ์–ป์„ ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค. ๋‹น์‹ ์ด ๋‹น์‹ ์˜ ๊ณ ๋‚œ ์€ ์˜์›ํ•œ ํ˜•๋ฒŒ ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค ๋‹ฌ์„ฑ ํ•  ๋•Œ๊นŒ์ง€ ์ž์‹ ์„ ์ฃฝ์—ฌ .

6981
Gaming / Re: So what's the verdict on Battlefront (if there is one, yet)?
« on: October 11, 2015, 12:44:45 AM »
And yes, I was totally telling Tru to kill himself seriously and not in the name of friendly banter.

Spoiler
kys
I told you I already killed myself once in this thread, what more do you want of me?
Gain Brouzouf

Then kys until you content yourself in purgatorial complacency
uhm, how about in a different language this time?
brouzouf gagner. ensuite vous tuer jusqu'ร  ce que vous vous contentez de complaisance purgatoire.
no, that didn't work either.
ๅขž็›Šbrouzouf ใ€‚ๆ€ไบ†่‡ชๅทฑ๏ผŒ็›ดๅˆฐไฝ ๅฎž็Žฐไฝ ็š„็‚ผ็‹ฑๆ˜ฏๆฐธๆ’็š„ๆƒฉ็ฝšใ€‚

6982
Gaming / Re: So what's the verdict on Battlefront (if there is one, yet)?
« on: October 11, 2015, 12:43:26 AM »
Only in relation to something mechanical, such as clunky controls or impossibly long button prompts/mashes.

I hate button masher sequences, but they aren't defaulted to being bad; I'm just not a fan of their usual applications. I might say something about them, but it wouldn't affect my perception of the game (unless the games was nothing BUT button mashing sequences)
i see

anyway, i think his issue is simply you calling them "non-issues", with your only qualifier being that there are ways to counteract those issues

like, perhaps he's arguing that there should be more ways to counteract

i haven't played the demo myself, so i feel silly even partaking in this, but yeah
this conversation is intriguing because it deals with that player/game fault relationship
It isn't accurate to just say "counteract",  admittedly; if I wasn't participating on top banter with Tru, and I was honestly arguing the point, I would have worded that more delicately.

Non-issues (on this topic) relate to things that are either unrelated to the gameplay (why are Vader's lines so corny? Why is the Star Destroyer apparently in-atmosphere?), are not the fault of the game itself (kamikaze), or are so petty that it's pointless to argue (can be related to point one; "why are there female stormtroopers on hoth" is a popular reason on /v/ at the moment).

6983
Gaming / Re: So what's the verdict on Battlefront (if there is one, yet)?
« on: October 11, 2015, 12:37:33 AM »
And yes, I was totally telling Tru to kill himself seriously and not in the name of friendly banter.

Spoiler
kys
I told you I already killed myself once in this thread, what more do you want of me?
Gain Brouzouf

Then kys until you content yourself in purgatorial complacency
uhm, how about in a different language this time?
brouzouf gagner. ensuite vous tuer jusqu'ร  ce que vous vous contentez de complaisance purgatoire.

6984
Gaming / Re: Has a game ever caused you to flip your shit?
« on: October 11, 2015, 12:36:27 AM »
Vidmaster Endure was a bitch with lag.
>tfw you lag out with 4 seconds left on the final bonus round before the achievement pops
Five times

Why was the netcode for ODST so shit?

6985
Gaming / Re: So what's the verdict on Battlefront (if there is one, yet)?
« on: October 11, 2015, 12:34:22 AM »
And yes, I was totally telling Tru to kill himself seriously and not in the name of friendly banter.

Spoiler
kys
I told you I already killed myself once in this thread, what more do you want of me?
Gain Brouzouf

Then kys until you content yourself in purgatorial complacency

6986
Gaming / Re: So what's the verdict on Battlefront (if there is one, yet)?
« on: October 11, 2015, 12:31:58 AM »
where would you say the line is drawn between "game's fault" and "player's fault"

in general
If it happens as a result of human error, it's not the game's fault.
so you would never use a term like "too difficult", then
Only in relation to something mechanical, such as clunky controls or impossibly long button prompts/mashes.

I hate button masher sequences, but they aren't defaulted to being bad; I'm just not a fan of their usual applications. I might say something about them, but it wouldn't affect my perception of the game (unless the games was nothing BUT button mashing sequences)

6987
Gaming / Re: So what's the verdict on Battlefront (if there is one, yet)?
« on: October 11, 2015, 12:28:59 AM »
And yes, I was totally telling Tru to kill himself seriously and not in the name of friendly banter.

Spoiler
kys
i take all this bullying to heart
kys seven times

6988
Gaming / Re: So what's the verdict on Battlefront (if there is one, yet)?
« on: October 11, 2015, 12:27:37 AM »
where would you say the line is drawn between "game's fault" and "player's fault"

in general
If it happens as a result of human error, it's not the game's fault.

-Kamikaze
-Not using teamwork
-Someone getting the vehicle first
-teabagging
-what weapons people use (as long as others are still competitive, I must add)

And others that don't immediately spring to mind.

6989
Gaming / Re: So what's the verdict on Battlefront (if there is one, yet)?
« on: October 11, 2015, 12:24:43 AM »
And yes, I was totally telling Tru to kill himself seriously and not in the name of friendly banter.

Spoiler
kys

6990
Gaming / Re: So what's the verdict on Battlefront (if there is one, yet)?
« on: October 11, 2015, 12:23:29 AM »
nothing would be a problem if we just adapted and didn't complain about things we dislike. Listen to Achronos
what exactly is it that you dislike

i think we're losing track of this
I was pointing out how stupid the statement that there are ways to counteract something makes it perfectly okay and exempt from criticism. But yeah, they're right should probably just kill myself instead, brb.
It'd be different it was a complete and total work around for most of these things, but they aren't.

AT-AT gunner keep killing you? Post somewhere in cover that it can't hit you.

DLT issue? Strafe and cover.

Someone get the vehicle before you? That would happened regardless of if it was a coin or a physical vehicle.

Things that aren't avoidable: shitty spawns, confusing placement of power ups (of which aren't in sight until you're almost on them), over the top lens flare, only snipers can counteract snipers, etc.
yes, and with armor lock I could just back up and wait for them to come out of it, or not walk close to people ever. Doesn't make it any better, though.
Which is why, if armor lock had to be a thing, the time in which it worked should have been decreased.

Complaining about kamikaze attacks is stupid; that happens in every single FPS game in which vehicles co-inhabit the same battlefield as infantry. Battlefront, Battlefield, and Halo to name the first to come to mind.

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