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Messages - Camnator

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91
The Flood / Re: unofficial chat thread
« on: May 01, 2015, 06:06:51 AM »
I'm genuinely curious. Do you think this place can still be saved?
considering the current userbase, probably not
to clarify, it's members such as camnator, zesty, jester, comms, etc that are the reason this forum will likely just wither and die seeing as you're allowed to run free every time you come back from a ban

now let's see how you try to twist this post around
So.. what? Perma ban them?
you mean have the mods do something that actually makes sense? stop speaking nonsense, deary
There are worse members here that those shitposters and spammes. At least they aren't malicious in their hijinkery.
well, at least one of them is. I would agree with you though.

I've never had someone obsessed with me in 40 posts. Wow... Ya, I know you want a hugbox circle-jerk where no one challenges your fantasy, but just because someone proves you wrong doesn't mean they should be banned. It means you should actually try to learn something and stop being worthless at life. I actually feel sorry for you now. If I hurt your feelings that much then maybe you need to use the mute function, squirt.
well aren't you a big internet tough guy

Nah, just a person with will, character, passion, principle and an eagerness not to be a complete fool that needs to be spoon-fed a delusion. You're the one being an "internet toughguy" by making false accusations of me, you freaking hypocrite. Funny how quick you forget your OWN actions and instead try to make assumptions of me, again. Ya, screw you, punk. You're a joke.
alright tough guy

Now you're just flattering me in your attempt to scramble for your self-image. It just makes me feel even more bad for you watching you suffer like this. Why can't you just control your emotions? Maybe you ought to take a break from forums.

92
Septagon / Re: Selective Moderation
« on: May 01, 2015, 06:05:32 AM »
Ya freaking weebs

93
The Flood / Re: unofficial chat thread
« on: May 01, 2015, 06:03:32 AM »
I'm genuinely curious. Do you think this place can still be saved?
considering the current userbase, probably not
to clarify, it's members such as camnator, zesty, jester, comms, etc that are the reason this forum will likely just wither and die seeing as you're allowed to run free every time you come back from a ban

now let's see how you try to twist this post around
So.. what? Perma ban them?
you mean have the mods do something that actually makes sense? stop speaking nonsense, deary
There are worse members here that those shitposters and spammes. At least they aren't malicious in their hijinkery.
well, at least one of them is. I would agree with you though.

I've never had someone obsessed with me in 40 posts. Wow... Ya, I know you want a hugbox circle-jerk where no one challenges your fantasy, but just because someone proves you wrong doesn't mean they should be banned. It means you should actually try to learn something and stop being worthless at life. I actually feel sorry for you now. If I hurt your feelings that much then maybe you need to use the mute function, squirt.
well aren't you a big internet tough guy

Nah, just a person with will, character, passion, principle and an eagerness not to be a complete fool that needs to be spoon-fed a delusion. You're the one being an "internet toughguy" by making false accusations of me, you freaking hypocrite. Funny how quick you forget your OWN actions and instead try to make assumptions of me, again. Ya, screw you, punk. You're a joke.

94
The Flood / Re: Comms got bant
« on: May 01, 2015, 06:00:09 AM »
I'm not calling out a user in a negative way

That is dependent on whether or not the mod likes you.

95
The Flood / Re: unofficial chat thread
« on: May 01, 2015, 05:59:17 AM »
I'm genuinely curious. Do you think this place can still be saved?
considering the current userbase, probably not
to clarify, it's members such as camnator, zesty, jester, comms, etc that are the reason this forum will likely just wither and die seeing as you're allowed to run free every time you come back from a ban

now let's see how you try to twist this post around
So.. what? Perma ban them?
you mean have the mods do something that actually makes sense? stop speaking nonsense, deary
There are worse members here that those shitposters and spammes. At least they aren't malicious in their hijinkery.
well, at least one of them is. I would agree with you though.

I've never had someone obsessed with me in 40 posts. Wow... Ya, I know you want a hugbox circle-jerk where no one challenges your fantasy, but just because someone proves you wrong doesn't mean they should be banned. It means you should actually try to learn something and stop being worthless at life. I actually feel sorry for you now. If I hurt your feelings that much then maybe you need to use the mute function, squirt.

96
The Flood / Re: unofficial chat thread
« on: May 01, 2015, 05:57:06 AM »
And before Kiyo retorts, you did a good job as a mod, but aside from actually doing that stuff, your antagonistic attitude isn't right for a moderator to have.
Otherwise I'd say nothing and probably would have said to leave you as a mod when the shitstorm was happening.
My unpopularity is what got me taken off the team. my antagonistic attitude was usually in response to certain users being twats.

Can't argue with that.

97
The Flood / Re: unofficial chat thread
« on: May 01, 2015, 05:56:08 AM »
And before Kiyo retorts, you did a good job as a mod, but aside from actually doing that stuff, your antagonistic attitude isn't right for a moderator to have.
Otherwise I'd say nothing and probably would have said to leave you as a mod when the shitstorm was happening.

I'm with them there, Kiyo. Even I have nothing againt you and thought you were a dang good mod besides those couple of mishaps. They were kind of big mishaps, though, the kind of things that are the one shot kind of deals when you're ready to give up being a mod anyway for the glory of humiliating some squirt.

98
The Flood / Re: unofficial chat thread
« on: May 01, 2015, 05:54:41 AM »
I'm genuinely curious. Do you think this place can still be saved?
considering the current userbase, probably not
to clarify, it's members such as camnator, zesty, jester, comms, etc that are the reason this forum will likely just wither and die seeing as you're allowed to run free every time you come back from a ban

now let's see how you try to twist this post around
So.. what? Perma ban them?
you mean have the mods do something that actually makes sense? stop speaking nonsense, deary

Except it doesn't make sense to ban me, which is why you gave no reason. Honestly, how much do you think you even know? You've barely even been on this forum. You're still oblivious.

99
The Flood / Re: Comms got bant
« on: May 01, 2015, 05:53:37 AM »
Calling out a user! Ban this person!

100
The Flood / Re: unofficial chat thread
« on: May 01, 2015, 05:52:44 AM »
I'm genuinely curious. Do you think this place can still be saved?
considering the current userbase, probably not
to clarify, it's members such as camnator, zesty, jester, comms, etc that are the reason this forum will likely just wither and die seeing as you're allowed to run free every time you come back from a ban

now let's see how you try to twist this post around

Twist what? Your post was just nonsense and baseless claims without evidence. If you had a reason as to why you think I'm a reason this forum will fail you would present it. Now you just come across as pathetic and slightly obsessed. Stop taking the internet so seriously. I obviously wasn't able to "run free" considering every ban I had was a joke. Funny how you leave that part out though du to your cognitive dissonance. You're naive.



I need to see that booty.

101
The Flood / Re: unofficial chat thread
« on: May 01, 2015, 05:51:59 AM »
I'm genuinely curious. Do you think this place can still be saved?
considering the current userbase, probably not
to clarify, it's members such as camnator, zesty, jester, comms, etc that are the reason this forum will likely just wither and die seeing as you're allowed to run free every time you come back from a ban

now let's see how you try to twist this post around

Twist what? Your post was just nonsense and baseless claims without evidence. If you had a reason as to why you think I'm a reason this forum will fail you would present it. Now you just come across as pathetic and slightly obsessed. Stop taking the internet so seriously.
I predicted that one perfectly, giving myself a 10/10

If you were predicting your own humiliation, then I agree. I'm just curious as to why you would WANT to embarrass yourself like you did.

102
The Flood / Re: unofficial chat thread
« on: May 01, 2015, 05:49:54 AM »
I'm genuinely curious. Do you think this place can still be saved?
considering the current userbase, probably not
to clarify, it's members such as camnator, zesty, jester, comms, etc that are the reason this forum will likely just wither and die seeing as you're allowed to run free every time you come back from a ban

now let's see how you try to twist this post around

Twist what? Your post was just nonsense and baseless claims without evidence. If you had a reason as to why you think I'm a reason this forum will fail you would present it. Now you just come across as pathetic and slightly obsessed. Stop taking the internet so seriously. I obviously wasn't able to "run free" considering every ban I had was a joke. Funny how you leave that part out though due to your cognitive dissonance. You're naive. Ironically, your ridiculous post only helped prove YOU'RE the negative type of person here, so you only contradict yourself hypocritically.

103
The Flood / Re: unofficial chat thread
« on: May 01, 2015, 05:48:37 AM »
hey what happened to the official chat thread anyway
Cheat took it down, no one gave a shit about it, it was originally going to be something that was wiped clean every two days, it didn't see enough activity in a whole week for that to have a point.
So after a month it was scrapped entirely.

One of the resons It was made was to try to prevent people making shit tier threads that would just end up locked, it didn't work there either.

I'm genuinely curious. Do you think this place can still be saved?
I do, but a lot of shit needs to be cut and the staff needs to be tougher.
Then when new users arrive, they might actually see some worth here beyond drama and maliciousness caused by shit tier users and pointless spam by others.
However the staff set the bar low from the beginning, so saving this place would start with causing a lower activity rate for a time.

I mentioned earlier how they probably don't like getting the mods in line because they feel bad since some of them are too nice. I bet they leave all the banning to the mess ups which is the only reason they're left to moderate. There was several times Psychologist disagreed with my ban, and at one point he told me my temporary ban was almost over before I got that permanent one. I guess his decision was overruled by someone that didn't like me.
Only a couple of the mods actually go confidentally by the rules, the rest need to talk with the other staff members before they do a thing.
And seeing as there's only one time in the day where they're all online, that way of doing things just leads to shit moderation.

I don't have a problem with Slash, but one time he accused me of spamming his Youtube and threatened to permanently ban me if I did it again. I told him it wasn't me and asked if he was joking and he ignored me until I asked Cheat about it and he made him reply back. After he realized it was a misunderstanding but Cheat didn't do squat about a mod just going and making threats and ignoring me when I literally did nothing. That kind of absurd BS is why this site is such a dang mess, and it's why after that I couldn't take it seriously.

104
The Flood / Re: unofficial chat thread
« on: May 01, 2015, 05:40:32 AM »
hey what happened to the official chat thread anyway
Cheat took it down, no one gave a shit about it, it was originally going to be something that was wiped clean every two days, it didn't see enough activity in a whole week for that to have a point.
So after a month it was scrapped entirely.

One of the resons It was made was to try to prevent people making shit tier threads that would just end up locked, it didn't work there either.

I'm genuinely curious. Do you think this place can still be saved?
I do, but a lot of shit needs to be cut and the staff needs to be tougher.
Then when new users arrive, they might actually see some worth here beyond drama and maliciousness caused by shit tier users and pointless spam by others.
However the staff set the bar low from the beginning, so saving this place would start with causing a lower activity rate for a time.

I mentioned earlier how they probably don't like getting the mods in line because they feel bad since some of them are too nice. I bet they leave all the banning to the mess ups which is the only reason they're left to moderate. There was several times Psychologist disagreed with my ban, and at one point he told me my temporary ban was almost over before I got that permanent one. I guess his decision was overruled by someone that didn't like me.

105
Septagon / Alright, Let's Give This A Shot
« on: May 01, 2015, 05:37:48 AM »
Meta and I both had threads deleted, not locked. Neither was against the rules. Explain.

106
The Flood / Re: unofficial chat thread
« on: May 01, 2015, 05:35:40 AM »
wHy YeS CoMmS
LeT uS cHaT


Spoiler
nAh
y u do dis
Aww, he got banned.

WHAAAAAT?! Haha! Is it because I was just putting pressure on Flee and now they have to make it look like they are actually trying? What has he done in the last hour to warrant a ban? This is too good.
In fairness, he did spam, we have a policy here to hit people harder if they have a history of getting warned and banned.
So it was warranted.
What isn't fair is that he's doing it to make a point to the staff and he wasn't hit for doing it yesterday.
So again, selective moderation.

Exactly. I guess it was fine last night, but today now we actually have to enforce the rules...THIS TIME.
As it turns out, he was warned for yesterday.
Which combined with today formed his ban.

However, that just shows that people don't give a fuck if they're warned.

Makes me wonder if they still have 20 different warnings. All the problems could be solved if they just got a decent mute function. Let Officer spam all he wants as long as I can just push a button and not see it if it bothers me.
I disagree, the staff here has a bad history of sweeping shit under the rug and calling it a day.
I don't like muting people, forums shouldn't have that option.

What happens when a new user arrives and sees pages of spam threads just because the mods muted that user and can't see it themselves?
Because as was said by themselves, the mods don't bother looking at the boards.

Hmm, maybe they ought to just make a spam board and only give out one warning per account for life before having every offence after become a ban. I never thought the rules were neceesarily bad or evben the problem, it's always been the lousy and unfair enforcement.

107
The Flood / Re: unofficial chat thread
« on: May 01, 2015, 05:31:43 AM »
hey what happened to the official chat thread anyway
Cheat took it down, no one gave a shit about it, it was originally going to be something that was wiped clean every two days, it didn't see enough activity in a whole week for that to have a point.
So after a month it was scrapped entirely.

One of the resons It was made was to try to prevent people making shit tier threads that would just end up locked, it didn't work there either.

I'm genuinely curious. Do you think this place can still be saved?

108
The Flood / Re: unofficial chat thread
« on: May 01, 2015, 05:29:21 AM »
wHy YeS CoMmS
LeT uS cHaT


Spoiler
nAh
y u do dis
Aww, he got banned.

WHAAAAAT?! Haha! Is it because I was just putting pressure on Flee and now they have to make it look like they are actually trying? What has he done in the last hour to warrant a ban? This is too good.
In fairness, he did spam, we have a policy here to hit people harder if they have a history of getting warned and banned.
So it was warranted.
What isn't fair is that he's doing it to make a point to the staff and he wasn't hit for doing it yesterday.
So again, selective moderation.

Exactly. I guess it was fine last night, but today now we actually have to enforce the rules...THIS TIME.
As it turns out, he was warned for yesterday.
Which combined with today formed his ban.

However, that just shows that people don't give a fuck if they're warned.

Makes me wonder if they still have 20 different warnings. All the problems could be solved if they just got a decent mute function. Let Officer spam all he wants as long as I can just push a button and not see it if it bothers me. Oh, and I'm sure this has been going on a lot longer than two days as well.

109
The Flood / Re: unofficial chat thread
« on: May 01, 2015, 05:24:26 AM »
wHy YeS CoMmS
LeT uS cHaT


Spoiler
nAh
y u do dis
Aww, he got banned.

WHAAAAAT?! Haha! Is it because I was just putting pressure on Flee and now they have to make it look like they are actually trying? What has he done in the last hour to warrant a ban? This is too good.
In fairness, he did spam, we have a policy here to hit people harder if they have a history of getting warned and banned.
So it was warranted.
What isn't fair is that he's doing it to make a point to the staff and he wasn't hit for doing it yesterday.
So again, selective moderation.

Exactly. I guess it was fine last night, but today now we actually have to enforce the rules...THIS TIME.

110
The Flood / Re: unofficial chat thread
« on: May 01, 2015, 05:20:13 AM »
wHy YeS CoMmS
LeT uS cHaT


Spoiler
nAh
y u do dis
Aww, he got banned.

WHAAAAAT?! Haha! Is it because I was just putting pressure on Flee and now they have to make it look like they are actually trying? What has he done in the last hour to warrant a ban? This is too good.

111
The Flood / Re: HOW THE FUCK MUCH LONGER IS CHALLENGER BANNED FOR
« on: May 01, 2015, 05:17:15 AM »
Challenger wasn't banned for outing anyone. He was banned for his posts in Serious. As it clearly states in the rules, moderation is stricter in the Serious board. It's the board for proper debates and civil discussions on certain serious topics, so the treshold for bullshit and personal attacks is lower there. If you look at the rules, you'll see that every severe warning you receive in Serious gets marked with a tag. If you have one of those tagged warnings in your recent history and break the rules again, you're getting an instant ban. I'm not the one who banned him but looking at Challenger's history, it's pretty clear he already had several prior tagged warnings and bans.

Either way, I believe his ban wears off later today.

Yet, I still see personal insults thrown around in serious a lot. Two of which were directed at me in my short time being back.
Did you report them?

One of them, though, is that really even crucial? Given the low activity moderation should be a breeze.
While activity sometimes drops, this place still has an average of 2400+ posts a day. That's 2400 posts for 7 mods, all with busy schedules, personal lives and differing time zones. We catch a lot, but not everything. So if you think something breaks the rules, then you should definitely report it.
Then bring in another mod, this is why you needed an active member as part of the staff.
But of course, popularity over activity, gotta be friends with Cheat first.
It doesn't help to have dead weight on the staff either.

Or just jerkoffs like Yu.
Actually, Yu is one of the more active mods when he's around.
Relatively proactive.

That may be, but he's still a jerkoff.

112
The Flood / Re: HOW THE FUCK MUCH LONGER IS CHALLENGER BANNED FOR
« on: May 01, 2015, 05:15:30 AM »
Challenger wasn't banned for outing anyone. He was banned for his posts in Serious. As it clearly states in the rules, moderation is stricter in the Serious board. It's the board for proper debates and civil discussions on certain serious topics, so the treshold for bullshit and personal attacks is lower there. If you look at the rules, you'll see that every severe warning you receive in Serious gets marked with a tag. If you have one of those tagged warnings in your recent history and break the rules again, you're getting an instant ban. I'm not the one who banned him but looking at Challenger's history, it's pretty clear he already had several prior tagged warnings and bans.

Either way, I believe his ban wears off later today.

Yet, I still see personal insults thrown around in serious a lot. Two of which were directed at me in my short time being back.
Did you report them?

One of them, though, is that really even crucial? Given the low activity moderation should be a breeze.
While activity sometimes drops, this place still has an average of 2400+ posts a day. That's 2400 posts for 7 mods, all with busy schedules, personal lives and differing time zones. We catch a lot, but not everything. So if you think something breaks the rules, then you should definitely report it.
Then bring in another mod, this is why you needed an active member as part of the staff.
But of course, popularity over activity, gotta be friends with Cheat first.
It doesn't help to have dead weight on the staff either.

Or just jerkoffs like Yu. Oh, no, did I call someone a name? I hope I get 20 warnings first and can avoid bans bny being a favorite of the mods! Jeez, no wonder this place is dying even faster than I thought. I can see how it's slightly better, but again, I'm chalking that up to just lower activity in general.

113
The Flood / Re: HOW THE FUCK MUCH LONGER IS CHALLENGER BANNED FOR
« on: May 01, 2015, 05:13:24 AM »
Challenger wasn't banned for outing anyone. He was banned for his posts in Serious. As it clearly states in the rules, moderation is stricter in the Serious board. It's the board for proper debates and civil discussions on certain serious topics, so the treshold for bullshit and personal attacks is lower there. If you look at the rules, you'll see that every severe warning you receive in Serious gets marked with a tag. If you have one of those tagged warnings in your recent history and break the rules again, you're getting an instant ban. I'm not the one who banned him but looking at Challenger's history, it's pretty clear he already had several prior tagged warnings and bans.

Either way, I believe his ban wears off later today.

Yet, I still see personal insults thrown around in serious a lot. Two of which were directed at me in my short time being back.
Did you report them?

One of them, though, is that really even crucial? Given the low activity moderation should be a breeze.
While activity sometimes drops, this place still has an average of 2400+ posts a day. That's 2400 posts for 7 mods, all with busy schedules, personal lives and differing time zones. We catch a lot, but not everything. So if you think something breaks the rules, then you should definitely report it.

That's why the mods should just be active members. They sure didn't need any reports to not only lock, but delete Meta and I's threads that weren't even against the rules. That's why people don't use the report function. It appears to be useless.

114
The Flood / Re: unofficial chat thread
« on: May 01, 2015, 05:07:03 AM »
I enjoy big female booties.

115
The Flood / Re: unofficial chat thread
« on: May 01, 2015, 05:03:10 AM »
I like big female booty.

116
The Flood / Re: HOW THE FUCK MUCH LONGER IS CHALLENGER BANNED FOR
« on: May 01, 2015, 05:00:48 AM »
Challenger wasn't banned for outing anyone. He was banned for his posts in Serious. As it clearly states in the rules, moderation is stricter in the Serious board. It's the board for proper debates and civil discussions on certain serious topics, so the treshold for bullshit and personal attacks is lower there. If you look at the rules, you'll see that every severe warning you receive in Serious gets marked with a tag. If you have one of those tagged warnings in your recent history and break the rules again, you're getting an instant ban. I'm not the one who banned him but looking at Challenger's history, it's pretty clear he already had several prior tagged warnings and bans.

Either way, I believe his ban wears off later today.

Yet, I still see personal insults thrown around in serious a lot. Two of which were directed at me in my short time being back.
Did you report them?

One of them, though, is that really even crucial? Given the low activity moderation should be a breeze.

117
The Flood / Re: HOW THE FUCK MUCH LONGER IS CHALLENGER BANNED FOR
« on: May 01, 2015, 04:57:45 AM »
Challenger wasn't banned for outing anyone. He was banned for his posts in Serious. As it clearly states in the rules, moderation is stricter in the Serious board. It's the board for proper debates and civil discussions on certain serious topics, so the treshold for bullshit and personal attacks is lower there. If you look at the rules, you'll see that every severe warning you receive in Serious gets marked with a tag. If you have one of those tagged warnings in your recent history and break the rules again, you're getting an instant ban. I'm not the one who banned him but looking at Challenger's history, it's pretty clear he already had several prior tagged warnings and bans.

Either way, I believe his ban wears off later today.

Yet, I still see personal insults thrown around in serious a lot. Two of which were directed at me in my short time being back.

118
The Flood / Re: HOW THE FUCK MUCH LONGER IS CHALLENGER BANNED FOR
« on: May 01, 2015, 04:54:03 AM »
you can still pry out others' personal information without their consent or knowledge.

Not really. Even if it's on a public social networking site it's still not personal information, it's information they made publically available. Of course if they are attempting to use that information in a way to harm others or do other things that actually break rules, I would understand.

Quote
But for some reason, the only users who have been banned by this rule being invoked so far are the really cancerous ones so I'm just looking the other way for the time being.

Not true. I was banned for "outing Nuka" even though a large portion of this forum had already known due to their history on Bungie, and I wasn't being negative about it in any way. In fact, I stood up for them even though they were a prick to me and defended the stance they should live how they want and to not have to hide the way they want to feel. I even mentioned how stupid it was to make it an issue or use it as a way to mock others, and also said doing so should result in those users being banned. Originally I was permanently banned and they later dropped it down to a month.
Hm, then I can see your point in why you're against that rule. Fair enough.

I obviously don't want someone to be free just to be a gigantic douche with the information, but as long as they're being cool about it I don't see how any action can be taken against them, especially when people are free to insult each other all of the time. Shouldn't that at least be more worthy of addressing first? That's how I'm looking at this. It just makes no sense to me. Really, people should use it as a learning experience not to be so eager to share things online unless you know the security settings in and out. You should also NEVER expect anything you put on the internet to be private. That notion is just asinine. I like you, Officer. (Whoa, that was weird to say) I hope you don't think I'm addressing you in my posts specifically. I'm just making general statements that can apply to anyone.

119
The Flood / Re: HOW THE FUCK MUCH LONGER IS CHALLENGER BANNED FOR
« on: May 01, 2015, 04:48:37 AM »
you can still pry out others' personal information without their consent or knowledge.

Not really. Even if it's on a public social networking site it's still not personal information, it's information they made publically available. Of course if they are attempting to use that information in a way to harm others or do other things that actually break rules, I would understand.

Quote
But for some reason, the only users who have been banned by this rule being invoked so far are the really cancerous ones so I'm just looking the other way for the time being.

Not true. I was banned for "outing Nuka" even though a large portion of this forum had already known due to their history on Bungie, and I wasn't being negative about it in any way. In fact, I stood up for them even though they were a prick to me and defended the stance they should live how they want and to not have to hide the way they want to feel. I even mentioned how stupid it was to make it an issue or use it as a way to mock others, and also said doing so should result in those users being banned. Originally I was permanently banned and they later dropped it down to a month.

120
The Flood / Re: HOW THE FUCK MUCH LONGER IS CHALLENGER BANNED FOR
« on: May 01, 2015, 04:41:24 AM »
What was he banned for?
Tempting fate.

It was recently outed (or made into a spectacle at least) that *someone* is transgendered, so the Challenger yelled that info out and then linked Cheat to the comment. So needless to say, he was banned.

Ah, and this was in full knowing that another user was banned for 30 days for outing the same thing (which in itself was with the user fully knowing about another user who was banned for 30 days for doing a very similar thing)

That dumb rule really makes no sense. First, it's not a secret if Challenger got access to the information, and second, why the hell would they care? Why would it be a big deal if people know?
The rule was more setting an example than anything else. It wasn't so much about the information itself but rather the behavior.

There's been a recent crackdown on revealing sensitive personal information, which Noelle and S\ash both were given 30-day bans for doing so.

That's still just silly. If people are THAT sensitive of personal information, keep it freaking personal. Once others know it's public domain at that point. I have a much bigger problem with the behavior of the whiners that make a big deal about their "secrets" on a freaking forum.

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