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Messages - Jim
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10831
« on: December 11, 2014, 05:58:28 PM »
gg reading the rest of my post thanks i didn't care enough about the rest of the post to respond to it
i'd probably immerse myself in metal communities for decades, and i'd still consider tool to be progressive metal
You wouldn't last in a metal community
10832
« on: December 11, 2014, 05:58:00 PM »
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_death_metal_bands,_!%E2%80%93KWhy would you ever be so masochistic as to sift through this pile of bands to find good ones? not to mention the leave out so many great bands. plus they put bands in there like Acid Bath which I'm sure Deci will agree ARE NOT DEATH METAL. The real way to get recs is engaging the community. Not wikipedia. to learn the history, you talk to veterans of the genre who've been with it since the beginning.
10833
« on: December 11, 2014, 05:54:41 PM »
No, you've just chosen to ignore the reasons WHY it isn't metal. Music theory reasons, which apply to all music and how they fall into genres. You know, like I tried to explain about classical genres? yeah, and you sucked the big one at that, too
you're the only person i know who can say stuff like "some classical music isn't classical music"
be right back, i'm gonna go listen to some metal music
like tool
No, you're just too retarded to understand it seems. I never said "some classical music isn't classical", I said "some classical music will be completely different from other classical music". You really love twisting words.
In a fun little word game, we can actually say that most classical music isn't classical.
You see, the first classical refers casually to the big umbrella of western classical music, and the latter one refers specifically to the classical period.
this is also true.
10834
« on: December 11, 2014, 05:54:06 PM »
I said "some classical music will be completely different from other classical music". so right there
in that very sentence, you are conceding that all classical music is classical music
no matter what subgenre it is
Why would someone ever go to Wikipedia for music? so i can learn about music
gg reading the rest of my post thanks
10835
« on: December 11, 2014, 05:52:29 PM »
No, you've just chosen to ignore the reasons WHY it isn't metal. Music theory reasons, which apply to all music and how they fall into genres. You know, like I tried to explain about classical genres? yeah, and you sucked the big one at that, too
you're the only person i know who can say stuff like "some classical music isn't classical music"
be right back, i'm gonna go listen to some metal music
like tool
No, you're just too retarded to understand it seems. I never said "some classical music isn't classical", I said "some classical music will be completely different from other classical music". You really love twisting words.
And to clarify, he is saying Penderecki is in a different sub-genre than Bach and so on.
10836
« on: December 11, 2014, 05:51:34 PM »
so if wikipedia is generally not a good source for music genres
why don't you edit it
that's what wikipedia is for
apparently music snobs are really, really stupid
Why would someone ever go to Wikipedia for music? The best way to immerse yourself into a genre and find new music is to become a part of the culture. Like Jazz? Find a Jazz band if you can play in one, find some Jazz forums, do some studying on sites like Jazzstandards and whatever. Like Metal? Check out some forums for different labels and distros, look in places you might not find easily. Metal doesn't like being in the spotlight. Like Punk? Same with Metal. Wikipedia should only be gone to for information on the album, and even then it'd be better to find it elsewhere.
10837
« on: December 11, 2014, 05:48:52 PM »
b-b-b-b-b-but suck my dik fgt oh okay
so swamp song is metal
i'm listening to it right now
this is... absolutely indistinguishable from their other music (in terms of genre)
same guitars
same drums
same vocals
tool's totally not metal though, because: ...
I never said that song is Metal.
10838
« on: December 11, 2014, 05:46:29 PM »
Hey Jim, what if I said that as an album, Undertow hits a little more metal than Rock, but only that album.
You would be wrong.
But muh Swamp Song
b-b-b-b-b-but suck my dik fgt
We all know that you're the bottom in our relationship.
ok
10839
« on: December 11, 2014, 05:46:15 PM »
it almost seems like you just don't WANT tool to be metal
I don't because they don't belong. Subgenres exist for a reason, and should remain the way they were founded. The culture of music is important to me, and the culture of Metal isn't going to change because you decide Tool is Metal. Just like the culture of Jazz will never accept Kenny G as anything other than a hack
10840
« on: December 11, 2014, 05:44:14 PM »
Hey Jim, what if I said that as an album, Undertow hits a little more metal than Rock, but only that album.
You would be wrong.
But muh Swamp Song
b-b-b-b-b-but suck my dik fgt
10841
« on: December 11, 2014, 05:44:00 PM »
Tool is objectively not Metal you've done an unbelievably shitty job of proving that
in fact... you didn't
If you're a shitty student, there's only so much someone can teach you
10842
« on: December 11, 2014, 05:42:36 PM »
Hey Jim, what if I said that as an album, Undertow hits a little more metal than Rock, but only that album.
You would be wrong.
10843
« on: December 11, 2014, 05:36:01 PM »
You seem to forget that I don't care what you think. Nor does anyone else. okay
Tool is metal.
get pissed please
I don't honestly give a shit, but Tool is objectively not Metal. I don't need to prove anything to you. It's like arguing about whether or not the sky is blue. It is, so it doesn't matter
10844
« on: December 11, 2014, 05:32:51 PM »
This fucking thread.
Emo is objectively better than all of this.
How did I miss this post?
Post-hardcore>Emo
they're the same thing with different names
10845
« on: December 11, 2014, 05:32:11 PM »
I would also like to point out that Metalheads are more serious about genres because of the cultural aspects of Metal. It's silly and ridiculous mostly, but it's part of the culture, and if you don't like it then stay out. so what terms should i use, if metal is wrong
i don't agree with progressive rock, at all
when i think rock, i think rolling stones
i don't fucking think tool
You seem to forget that I don't care what you think. Nor does anyone else.
10846
« on: December 11, 2014, 05:30:30 PM »
Genres are subjective.
Wrong
yes of course. I had forgotten that humanity was a hive mind and unanimously agreed upon the nature of music and it's classification.
the rules we have set aside that were implemented to help understand composition define genres. Absolutely people push boundaries, but most of the time when that happens, new genres are created, or they simply fall under Avant Garde. Theory is not a rule set to determine the RIGHT WAY TO COMPOSE, it is necessary for understanding and exploration of the ways a genre was written. Stravinsky said that theory in hindsight doesn't exist. This is true, because the rules of music we have made up, and therefore don't actually exist. However, Stravinsky also acknowledges the importance of theory to understand music, as it gives you an understanding of the way the music was created, and how to replicate it yourself.
10847
« on: December 11, 2014, 05:24:53 PM »
I would also like to point out that Metalheads are more serious about genres because of the cultural aspects of Metal. It's silly and ridiculous mostly, but it's part of the culture, and if you don't like it then stay out.
10848
« on: December 11, 2014, 05:23:13 PM »
also, i don't really understand what progressive rock even really is, but whenever i ask that, people usually tell me to listen to comfortably numb by pink floyd
take the song comfortably numb
and then take vicarious by tool
say the words, "these two songs are the same genre"
aaand you have the stupidest possible statement
ever
Progressive Rock is harder to classify without using eras to classify them as well. 70's Prog MOSTLY is cheesy, nerdy, and somewhat complex. They like odd time signatures, metre and tempo changes frequently,sci-fi, and Classical structures. Pink Floyd is mostly progressive on Dark Side of the Moon, but outside of that album they drift off into typical Classic Rock territory. But I would say Tool is closer to Dark Side of the Moon than they are to Rush, but Tool also shares similarities with King Crimson. A lot, actually.
I also can't neglect Tools Industrial/No Wave influences, as I am pretty sure they are big Swans fans.
Oh I forgot to add that most Modern Prog had a tendency to "mature", but it depends. Tool is hard to classify because they have a unique sound, but I mostly hear Progressive Rock and Grunge.
10849
« on: December 11, 2014, 05:21:49 PM »
Genres are subjective.
Wrong
10850
« on: December 11, 2014, 05:20:13 PM »
also, i don't really understand what progressive rock even really is, but whenever i ask that, people usually tell me to listen to comfortably numb by pink floyd
take the song comfortably numb
and then take vicarious by tool
say the words, "these two songs are the same genre"
aaand you have the stupidest possible statement
ever
Progressive Rock is harder to classify without using eras to classify them as well. 70's Prog MOSTLY is cheesy, nerdy, and somewhat complex. They like odd time signatures, metre and tempo changes frequently,sci-fi, and Classical structures. Pink Floyd is mostly progressive on Dark Side of the Moon, but outside of that album they drift off into typical Classic Rock territory. But I would say Tool is closer to Dark Side of the Moon than they are to Rush, but Tool also shares similarities with King Crimson. A lot, actually. I also can't neglect Tools Industrial/No Wave influences, as I am pretty sure they are big Swans fans.
10851
« on: December 11, 2014, 05:11:49 PM »
It's like if I said I wanted Jazz, I want stuff like Coltrane, not Steely Dan.
If I wanted Jazz Fusion I'd ask for it.
10852
« on: December 11, 2014, 05:10:58 PM »
Second of all, I don't really give a shit about genres in the grand scheme of things, but they help classify what music you like. That way, instead of saying "hey I would like some metal recs" and getting Tool as a response, you can say "Hey I like Black Metal and Doom Metal, favorites are Darkthrone and Candlemass, recs?" i agree, if you wanted to listen to black metal or doom metal and got tool as a response, that would be obnoxious
good thing i never said anything about black metal or doom metal
Theoretically, yes Well, that's the stupidest thing I ever heard.
So, what about people like me?
You know, people who don't give a cunt about the tempo or the fucking time signature or any of that shit? What would I ask? Because if I asked for metal, and you gave me Tool, I'd be happy. If you gave me Iron Maiden, I'd be just as happy. Because they're like Tool, but different!
you're acting like i'm trying to say justin bieber is metal
Well if I asked for Metal and got Tool or some shit like Soundgarden, I'd be asshurt. I like both bands, but I do not want Grunge or Progressive Rock, I want Metal.
10853
« on: December 11, 2014, 05:09:35 PM »
Look at it this way, Verb.
God forbid, lets say you have children
Are your children YOU because they share your genes? No, but they came from you.
Sure, Tool has some influence from Metal, I won't deny that, but that doesn't make them Metal. The influence is not strong enough to make them Metal.
Infest shares some qualities of Metal, does that make them Metal? No, they're still Punk because that's how they sound and the way they write.
Penderecki certainly got influence from probably people like Bach, but they are not one in the same
10854
« on: December 11, 2014, 05:05:08 PM »
you are a fucking idiot if you think composition doesn't affect how something sounds. so if i sped up a song using youtube's speed-up thing
i could change the song's genre?
because i'm changing the tempo, which is part of the composition
and that apparently makes all the difference you need to have different genres
Theoretically, yes. That is what Electronic musicians often do, but they don't just copy the song because that would be gay af
Actually, p sure that's exactly what Vaporwave is, but Vaporwave is for retarded manchildren
10855
« on: December 11, 2014, 05:03:18 PM »
you are a fucking idiot if you think composition doesn't affect how something sounds. so if i sped up a song using youtube's speed-up thing
i could change the song's genre?
because i'm changing the tempo, which is part of the composition
and that apparently makes all the difference you need to have different genres
Theoretically, yes. That is what Electronic musicians often do, but they don't just copy the song because that would be gay af
10856
« on: December 11, 2014, 05:02:05 PM »
I don't care what YOU think because the MAJORITY thinks you are wrong. the majority of people are religious
arguments from majority mean nothing to me, and i refuse to blindly follow majority
Metal is something more easily described through the music, but a band like Infest is all about speed, violence, anger, hatred, sloppiness, and politically charged lyrics. you... you mean like tool?
Metal is not politically charge most of the time, or if it is it's more subdued. Metal was about creating a thematic idea akin to Horror films and high fantasy. Black Sabbath's self titled song is more or less a horror movie in song form. It is not meant to be fast, angry, or anything. It's just slow, heavy, and evil sounding. Incantation is taking what Black Sabbath did and putting a shitload more distortion on it, using a different vocal style, and making it slightly faster in some places. Incantation is the same idea but more advanced in its development. so why cant tool be just another one of those subversions of metal
Tool does not straddle the line, it simply is NOT Metal. Their themes, composition, vocals, instrumentation, etc. do not fit with the Metal framework. thats all you're doing is saying that they don't
but i see it very plainly
K first of all, I said INFEST shares those qualities, so by saying that you agree Tool sounds more Punk (which Grunge is a subgenre of) than Metal. Second of all, I don't really give a shit about genres in the grand scheme of things, but they help classify what music you like. That way, instead of saying "hey I would like some metal recs" and getting Tool as a response, you can say "Hey I like Black Metal and Doom Metal, favorites are Darkthrone and Candlemass, recs?"
10857
« on: December 11, 2014, 04:53:23 PM »
One in the same according to Verb kinda, yeah
10858
« on: December 11, 2014, 04:52:39 PM »
I usually just write off Jim's ramblings as /mu/ elitist douchebaggary, but he actually mostly knows what he's talking about here.
Now we can get into the ideological and cultural differences that can separate Metal. this is indeed Metal in the technical way of thinking, but it's shitty false poser scum Metal for babymen. Whereas this is trve Metal, reserved only for those welcomed into Valhalla.
10859
« on: December 11, 2014, 04:49:18 PM »
One in the same according to Verb
10860
« on: December 11, 2014, 04:47:55 PM »
I know for a fact that he occasionally listens to Iron Maiden yeah, and i can't distinguish it aesthetically from any of the music you posted
the fact that they all use different technical stuff--like, what does that have to do with genre
i thought it was ALL about how it sounded, not the composition
you are a fucking idiot if you think composition doesn't affect how something sounds. I don't even think I should bother arguing, since you don't seem to even know what composition IS
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