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Messages - Turkey
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7051
« on: February 11, 2015, 08:46:33 AM »
I'm all for independent groups and artists crowdfunding, but at least don't look and act like you're hungover from the night before while mumbling your way through the video.
7052
« on: February 10, 2015, 09:57:02 PM »
Wow that baby is a slut.
7053
« on: February 10, 2015, 09:53:31 PM »
So I actually understand very little of the paper itself, but it seems like they're taking the big bang model and putting the singularity at the asymptote of time --> - ∞...meaning, in their model, as we approach the "beginning" of the universe the universe gets smaller and smaller, but never actually reaches singularity.
tl;dr: They're proposing that instead of an infinite cycle of crunches and bangs, it's actually just an infinitely long bang. Supposedly their model eliminates the the problem of dark energy and mass, though it replaces them with another hypothetical material.
7054
« on: February 09, 2015, 07:45:58 PM »
Door's been duped by ClickHole.
7055
« on: February 09, 2015, 07:14:29 PM »
So recently I got into a heated Facebook discussion with a fervent feminist
7056
« on: February 08, 2015, 01:42:17 PM »
So I've been researching evidence of the gospels because Meta's been on an epistemological soul search lately, and I came across this awesome little story of an alternative Jesus figure named Yoheshua, or Yeshu for short. It was written by medieval Jews as a parody of the Christian gospels. tl;dr Joseph was a stud and hooked up with a girl named Miriam, who gave birth to Yeshu, he went to Egypt and learned their magic, came back to Jerusalem, broke into the temple and stole the name of God, giving him unlimited power, then went around proclaiming his power, seducing women, and doing miracles and fulfilling the prophecies of Isaiah. Spoiler “In the year 3671 (in Jewish reckonging, it being ca 90 B.C.) in the days of King Jannaeus, a great misfortune befell Israel, when there arose a certain disreputable man of the tribe of Judah, whose name was Joseph Pandera. He lived at Bethlehem, in Judah. Near his house dwelt a widow and her lovely and chaste daughter named Miriam. Miriam was betrothed to Yohanan, of the royal house of David, a man learned in the Torah and God-fearing. At the close of a certain Sabbath, Joseph Pandera, attractive and like a warrior in appearance, having gazed lustfully upon Miriam, knocked upon the door of her room and betrayed her by pretending that he was her betrothed husband, Yohanan. Even so, she was amazed at this improper conduct and submitted only against her will. Thereafter, when Yohanan came to her, Miriam expressed astonishment at behavior so foreign to his character. It was thus that they both came to know the crime of Joseph Pandera and the terrible mistake on the part of Miriam… Miriam gave birth to a son and named him Yehoshua, after her brother. This name later deteriorated to Yeshu (“Yeshu” is the Jewish “name” for Jesus. It means “May His Name Be Blotted Out”). On the eighth day he was circumcised. When he was old enough the lad was taken by Miriam to the house of study to be instructed in the Jewish tradition. One day Yeshu walked in front of the Sages with his head uncovered, showing shameful disrespect. At this, the discussion arose as to whether this behavior did not truly indicate that Yeshu was an illegitimate child and the son of a niddah. Moreover, the story tells that while the rabbis were discussing the Tractate Nezikin, he gave his own impudent interpretation of the law and in an ensuing debate he held that Moses could not be the greatest of the prophets if he had to receive counsel from Jethro. This led to further inquiry as to the antecedents of Yeshu, and it was discovered through Rabban Shimeon ben Shetah that he was the illegitimate son of Joseph Pandera. Miriam admitted it. After this became known, it was necessary for Yeshu to flee to Upper Galilee. After King Jannaeus, his wife Helene ruled over all Israel. In the Temple was to be found the Foundation Stone on which were engraven the letters of God’s Ineffable Name. Whoever learned the secret of the Name and its use would be able to do whatever he wished. Therefore, the Sages took measures so that no one should gain this knowledge. Lions of brass were bound to two iron pillars at the gate of the place of burnt offerings. Should anyone enter and learn the Name, when he left the lions would roar at him and immediately the valuable secret would be forgotten. Yeshu came and learned the letters of the Name; he wrote them upon the parchment which he placed in an open cut on his thigh and then drew the flesh over the parchment. As he left, the lions roared and he forgot the secret. But when he came to his house he reopened the cut in his flesh with a knife an lifted out the writing. Then he remembered and obtained the use of the letters. He gathered about himself three hundred and ten young men of Israel and accused those who spoke ill of his birth of being people who desired greatness and power for themselves. Yeshu proclaimed, “I am the Messiah; and concerning me Isaiah prophesied and said, ‘Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.’” He quoted other messianic texts, insisting, “David my ancestor prophesied concerning me: ‘The Lord said to me, thou art my son, this day have I begotten thee.’” The insurgents with him replied that if Yeshu was the Messiah he should give them a convincing sign. They therefore, brought to him a lame man, who had never walked. Yeshu spoke over the man the letters of the Ineffable Name, and the leper was healed. Thereupon, they worshipped him as the Messiah, Son of the Highest. When word of these happenings came to Jerusalem, the Sanhedrin decided to bring about the capture of Yeshu. They sent messengers, Annanui and Ahaziah, who, pretending to be his disciples, said that they brought him an invitation from the leaders of Jerusalem to visit them. Yeshu consented on condition the members of the Sanhedrin receive him as a lord. He started out toward Jerusalem and, arriving at Knob, acquired an ass on which he rode into Jerusalem, as a fulfillment of the prophecy of Zechariah. The Sages bound him and led him before Queen Helene, with the accusation: “This man is a sorcerer and entices everyone.” Yeshu replied, “The prophets long ago prophesied my coming: ‘And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse,’ and I am he; but as for them, Scripture says ‘Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly.’” Queen Helene asked the Sages: “What he says, is it in your Torah?” They replied: “It is in our Torah, but it is not applicable to him, for it is in Scripture: ‘And that prophet which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.’ He has not fulfilled the signs and conditions of the Messiah.” Yeshu spoke up: “Madam, I am the Messiah and I revive the dead.” A dead body was brought in; he pronounced the letters of the Ineffable Name and the corpse came to life. The Queen was greatly moved and said: “This is a true sign.” She reprimanded the Sages and sent them humiliated from her presence. Yeshu’s dissident followers increased and there was controversy in Israel. Yeshu went to Upper Galilee. the Sages came before the Queen, complaining that Yeshu practiced sorcery and was leading everyone astray. Therefore she sent Annanui and Ahaziah to fetch him. The found him in Upper Galilee, proclaiming himself the Son of God. When they tried to take him there was a struggle, but Yeshu said to the men of Upper Galilee: “Wage no battle.” He would prove himself by the power which came to him from his Father in heaven. He spoke the Ineffable Name over the birds of clay and they flew into the air. He spoke the same letters over a millstone that had been placed upon the waters. He sat in it and it floated like a boat. When they saw this the people marveled. At the behest of Yeshu, the emissaries departed and reported these wonders to the Queen. She trembled with astonishment. Then the Sages selected a man named Judah Iskarioto and brought him to the Sanctuary where he learned the letters of the Ineffable Name as Yeshu had done. When Yeshu was summoned before the queen, this time there were present also the Sages and Judah Iskarioto. Yeshu said: “It is spoken of me, ‘I will ascend into heaven.’” He lifted his arms like the wings of an eagle and he flew between heaven and earth, to the amazement of everyone…Yeshu was seized. His head was covered with a garment and he was smitten with pomegranate staves; but he could do nothing, for he no longer had the Ineffable Name. Yeshu was taken prisoner to the synagogue of Tiberias, and they bound him to a pillar. To allay his thirst they gave him vinegar to drink. On his head they set a crown of thorns. There was strife and wrangling between the elders and the unrestrained followers of Yeshu, as a result of which the followers escaped with Yeshu to the region of Antioch; there Yeshu remained until the eve of the Passover. Yeshu then resolved to go the Temple to acquire again the secret of the Name. That year the Passover came on a Sabbath day. On the eve of the Passover, Yeshu, accompanied by his disciples, came to Jerusalem riding upon an ass. Many bowed down before him. He entered the Temple with his three hundred and ten followers. One of them, Judah Iskarioto apprised the Sages that Yeshu was to be found in the Temple, that the disciples had taken a vow by the Ten Commandments not to reveal his identity but that he would point him out by bowing to him. So it was done and Yeshu was seized. Asked his name, he replied to the question by several times giving the names Mattai, Nakki, Buni, Netzer, each time with a verse quoted by him and a counter-verse by the Sages. Yeshu was put to death on the sixth hour on the eve of the Passover and of the Sabbath. When they tried to hang him on a tree it broke, for when he had possessed the power he had pronounced by the Ineffable Name that no tree should hold him. He had failed to pronounce the prohibition over the carob-stalk, for it was a plant more than a tree, and on it he was hanged until the hour for afternoon prayer, for it is written in Scripture, “His body shall not remain all night upon the tree.” They buried him outside the city. On the first day of the week his bold followers came to Queen Helene with the report that he who was slain was truly the Messiah and that he was not in his grave; he had ascended to heaven as he prophesied. Diligent search was made and he was not found in the grave where he had been buried. A gardener had taken him from the grave and had brought him into his garden and buried him in the sand over which the waters flowed into the garden. Queen Helene demanded, on threat of a severe penalty, that the body of Yeshu be shown to her within a period of three days. There was a great distress. When the keeper of the garden saw Rabbi Tanhuma walking in the field and lamenting over the ultimatum of the Queen, the gardener related what he had done, in order that Yeshu’s followers should not steal the body and then claim that he had ascended into heaven. The Sages removed the body, tied it to the tail of a horse and transported it to the Queen, with the words, “This is Yeshu who is said to have ascended to heaven.” Realizing that Yeshu was a false prophet who enticed the people and led them astray, she mocked the followers but praised the Sages. Now obviously this is taken seriously by nobody, but it's still an interesting read. Hell, I'd see the movie.
7057
« on: February 08, 2015, 09:20:07 AM »
He's largely been supporting the same progressive policies we've seen from the Vatican for the past few decades, it's just that the press has framed him as a revolutionary and people these days feel no need to verify what they read.
7058
« on: February 08, 2015, 08:27:28 AM »
epistemological
Meta's word of the week.
OT: I dunno, there doesn't seem to be a significant difference except in certainty of the belief.
This really is an issue for me because I hear atheists say it all the time (see: Armoured Skeptic on Youtube). Whether or not you assert the falsehood of an entity or assert a lack of belief of an entity. . . It seems the same to me.
It's fucking with my head.
Goji would point out the importance of linguistics here. There's definitely a difference in intent between the two statements.
7059
« on: February 08, 2015, 07:54:10 AM »
epistemological
Meta's word of the week. OT: I dunno, there doesn't seem to be a significant difference except in certainty of the belief.
7060
« on: February 07, 2015, 02:43:46 PM »
I may have to redact my offer of a potential conversation tonight, since I'm going out to celebrate my 18th >.>
Damn man, happy birthday. I'd buy you a pint, but the invite must've been lost in the mail.
7061
« on: February 07, 2015, 10:00:21 AM »
I'm on a cross-country trip to Florida, so that kind of discussion isn't really meant to be done from a phone. Tonight at the hotel, maybe?
7062
« on: February 07, 2015, 09:54:55 AM »
You're just restating arguments I've already addressed. I think this is less of an argument against the existence of a god, and more of an argument of the futility of pursuing the knowledge of one. It's a helpful reassurance of one's atheism, but not particularly compelling to me, at least.
7063
« on: February 07, 2015, 09:19:00 AM »
Can't watch the video, can someone highlight the main points?
The past is fake because you can't prove that everything wasn't created last Thursday.
Even if it was, I can't think of any significant repercussions.
7064
« on: February 07, 2015, 02:32:19 AM »
Can't watch the video, can someone highlight the main points?
7065
« on: February 06, 2015, 05:50:18 PM »
it just has a very high probability (near certainty) of being alive and dead. did you mean to use the word "and" there or did you mean "or"
because i think i get what you're saying, but your choice of words isn't very, uh good
"and" still implies simultaneity
The probability that the cat is alive is high, and the probability that the cat is dead is high. That is simultaneous. The error is in thinking it is both until observed.
7066
« on: February 06, 2015, 05:06:10 PM »
The cat isn't alive AND dead simultaneously, it is that we can't conclusively say that it is alive or dead until it is viewed.
Well yeah, but that sounds like basic probability. I was under the impression that superposition was when a particle held two seemingly contradictory states simultaneously.
Here is why quantum mechanics is not just basic probability: Schrödinger's cat is not simultaneously dead and alive, it just has a very high probability (near certainty) of being alive and dead. Normally those would be inversely related, as probability of death goes up, probability of life goes down. The idea of entanglement and the principle of superposition dictate that the probability of either event (a discrete event to which there ought to be a single, definitive answer) is greater than zero.
7067
« on: February 06, 2015, 03:25:59 PM »
Well, you're the first person who's made any such concession. Every other discussion I've ever had about this was with the other guy trying to tell me that it is undeterministic.
You're familiar with Schrödinger's cat, yes?
Yes, in fact Schrodinger's techniques actually support a more deterministic universe than what others in quantum mechanics had postulated. Anyone that's argued that uncertainty implied stochastic processes is just wrong, period (and I will admit to falling into that trap a few years ago). In fact, the very idea that the cat is in fact alive and dead simultaneously is a completely incorrect way of looking at superposition, and we have Einstein to blame for that interpretation. That view of superposition directly violates the Pauli Exclusion Principle. And back to the titular issue of the moon, it was a poor example by Einstein to make quantum theory seem ridiculous. In reality, quantum mechanics is not concerned with the moon, which is covered just fine by classical mechanics. Quantum mechanics is concerned with the tiniest of particles. Spoiler Also, I'm super excited about having a serious, intelligent, and mature conversation about quantum mechanics on this board.
7068
« on: February 06, 2015, 03:06:18 PM »
Do you have anything to qualify that statement? Logic. Hard determinism. There is no randomness in the universe--you just didn't take every variable into account. So it appears random.
Uncertainty is not non-determinism. There's nothing stochastic about the properties.
7069
« on: February 06, 2015, 02:59:03 PM »
I amend my statement to "the uncertainty principle is fucking bullshit."
I don't wanna act like I know everything about quantum physics, but... there is no uncertainty in the universe.
Do you have anything to qualify that statement?
7070
« on: February 06, 2015, 01:53:58 PM »
That proves my point...?
It refutes it. Those ceremonies are not duties incumbent to his office.
7071
« on: February 06, 2015, 01:39:38 PM »
Ironically, this article has nothing to do with whether the moon exists when you're not looking, so I'd try not to make that the focal point of the discussion. So we know Bell's Theorem basically shit on Einstein's criticism of quantum theory. In layman's terms, Einstein thought that the reason observations affect results is that there must be some interaction between the device we use to observe, and the object being observed. There's no other reasonable explanation, to him. Bell proved, in ostensibly the most profound discovery that's ever been made in physics, that Einstein is just plain wrong, and that there is in fact an uncertainty to some characteristics of things. In this case, it's just not possible to know the position and momentum (spin) of an electron simultaneously. It's a weird quantum property of electrons, and it isn't an issue of determinism. And that leads to what I think is the crux of this paper: Orthodox quantum metaphysicians would, I believe, say no, nothing has changed at A as the result of the measurement at B; what has changed is our knowledge of the particle at A (Somewhat more spookily, they might object to the naive classical assumption of localizability or separability implicit in the phrases “at A” and “at B”). This seems very sensible and very reassuring: N-color does not characterize the particle at all, but only what we know about the particle. But does that last sentence sound as good when “particle” is changed to “photon” and “N-color” to “polarization”? And does it really help you to stop wondering why the lights always flash the same colors when the switches have the same settings? So I think this ties in nicely with the discussion yesterday about abstract objects, such as numbers. Previously we considered electrons to be specifically characterized by their traits, like spin. But what this paper is saying is that what is changing is just the effect that those characteristics are having on our perception of them.
7072
« on: February 06, 2015, 01:21:31 PM »
I don't really understand why anyone should be forced to perform a ceremony that they disagree with.
If he only wants to marry straight people, what's the problem?
The problem arises when performing that ceremony is part of their job description. In this case it isn't, so there should be no problem.
7073
« on: February 06, 2015, 12:44:14 PM »
I'm really struggling to see how people are forgetting two exceptionally important facts:
- The Baby Boomer generation is made up of individuals. - They were, all of them, a product of their time.
No Meta, I'm pretty sure they had giant meetings where they figured out how to screw over their kids. They twirled mustaches and stroked white cats while lounging on luxurious high-backed leather chairs. They very carefully orchestrated everything that has gone wrong over the past 60 years.
7074
« on: February 06, 2015, 10:17:43 AM »
Some people like spending time with others and derive more enjoyment from sharing activities with their friends; fuck them, right? I honestly don't understand the resentment introverts feel for extroverts.
7075
« on: February 05, 2015, 11:03:59 PM »
So, in English:
You want Philosophy to be taught in schools? It already is
Philosophy or ethics aren't required education in public schools, and even when they are offered, it's at a very basic level.
7076
« on: February 05, 2015, 09:38:51 PM »
Got about $2400 in refunds, used it for a down payment on a car.
7077
« on: February 05, 2015, 09:35:15 PM »
But this long run is a misleading guide to current affairs. In the long run we are all dead. Economists set themselves too easy, too useless a task if in tempestuous seasons they can only tell us that when the storm is long past the ocean is flat again.”
-John Maynard Keynes Fuck the next generations, right? We're dead anyway.
7078
« on: February 05, 2015, 09:29:27 PM »
LOL
Just shut the fuck up.
lol
7079
« on: February 05, 2015, 07:11:54 PM »
when you kick a ball is it moving because you kicked it or because contradictions would exist if the ball were to not move, or if it were to move a little to the left or right, or essentially exist in any other state than what it moves in? It is moving because you kicked and it's moving in that path because there's a single possible result when combining vectors of force. Yes, it is moving that way because any other way would be a contradiction of the laws of reality. For quantum mechanics, we wonder why particles can pop in and out of existence, or how photons pop into existence when you turn on a light, or how electrons can be everywhere around an atom at once, or how they can teleport around an atom. These mass-less objects don't cause a contradiction when they behave like this. Which particles phase in and out of existence? Photons don't just spring out when you turn on a light, it's a result of a reaction caused by running electricity through a filament. And electrons can't be anywhere around the nucleus at the same time, it's just that it's position can sometimes not be known. I don't want you to think I'm condemning your thread. I really like it and want you to expand on the ideas. LOL
Just shut the fuck up.
7080
« on: February 05, 2015, 04:16:37 PM »
Hey Meta, have you read anything by Douglas Hofstadter, and if not, why?
I've been wanting to read GEB for ages.
If this is the kind of stuff you post about after going to classes (I'm assuming that's what's inspiring you), then reading that book is going to be like opening the floodgates. It is such a good fucking book. sorry, can i get you to tell me where you got that one avatar from the one with the shattering hand
i thought it was pretty cool
i get nothing if i reverse image search it
I honestly have no idea who the original artist is. I found it on a random druggy tumblr while looking for surrealist gifs.
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