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Topics - Verbatim

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631
The Flood / give me one reason why "slut-shaming" is a bad thing
« on: May 30, 2015, 12:20:01 PM »
without saying "being a slut doesn't hurt anyone"

slut-shaming doesn't hurt anyone either

632
The Flood / Post formatting experimentation thread
« on: May 29, 2015, 05:30:56 AM »
look at how COOL this looks

V̡̡̡͎̳̤̜͚͓͚̥̄̋͐̈́͋̿͛͠ ė̒̌ͭ͌ͦ͋ͦ̎̀̔̀̒̂̓̚҉̶͖͇̙͍̳͚̞̕͞͠ r̴̰̫̗̼̰̲̗̮̙͍̭͍̠̬͖͇̥̒ͫ̽̈́̾ͪ̀͌͐͗͒́͟ͅͅ b̴̷̪͙̺͍̱͉̖̠̝̘͔͔ͮ̅̽͌ͩ̏͑̃̌ͨͮ͌ͤ̐ͣ͋̀͜ a̠̤̺̪̻̠̠̱̳͉̤̭̝͒̐̓̅̆̂̎ͥ̓ͬ̈́́ͭ̿̃̓͌̀̚͢͞ t̨̳̜͔͍̦̪̱͇̳̮̦̯̤̲̰̉̄̌̍ͪ́̐̿ͤ́ͪ́͘ i̶̞̦͔̜̱͎̝̩̣͙̳̩̫̟̬͋̽͑̈͒ͬ͗̇ͦ̃ͬͫͯͤ̂͆ͤ̎́̕͞ͅ ṃ̴̷̧͉̟̪͎̯̗̝̲̦̳̮̬̓̒̆̃̓͠ͅͅ  ̵̧̖̺͖̫͎̺͂̏̍̇͐̔́͆̇̾̈́̀͌̅͜͡͠ ĭ̶ͫ̃ͭͪ̋ͩͦͨ̔͒̐̊̓͂͒̈́̓͟͝͏̙͉̱͚͉̲͔̜͓̹̝̳̭͍͖̱̜ͅ s̸̖̤̘̰̙̱̻̱̻͈ͦ̉ͯͦ͆̂̂͊̽̀̆̐ͮ́̚͝  ̴̗͖̹̼͍͓͖̋̉̒̾͐͟͡ t̵͚̼̖̝̰̠̭͉̝ͤͣͣ̃ͤ̋ͤ̄̄̒̾͒̑́̚͢ h̨͕̺̖̲̏́̆͗ͧ̆ͧ͋ͬ̓ͧ̈́̀́ͅ ę̵̢͙̮͚̩͍̱̙͇̯͕̿͑͌͆ͭͨ͠͞  ̡̨̰̱̦̯̓̉ͥ̂ͪ̊͗ͯ͗̃́ͭ̈͘͠͝ g̸̢̈́͌͑̽ͬ̈ͭ͒͟͢҉͎̦̙̖͓̖̟͍̺̤̳͈͓̠ͅ r̐͊̅͆͋̽ͭ͘͏̷͕̯̻̗̜̮͈̻ e̵̲̳̻͔̥̯͎ͣ͑͐̊̑̈̃ͭ͗̀ a̢̛͖̹̞͇͍͕͚̰̻̞̤͍̗͍͓͉̠ͫ̄́͐̋͂̂̓̾̍̂ͤ̏ͫ̍ͮ͊͒ͫ t̉̒̃͗́͌ͨ̍͋̆ͪ͏͏̶̮̗͕̫̥͔̝̜̜̺̹̰ͅ e̴͒͛̎͘҉҉̹͔̜͚̺̳̙̱̦̣̫̺ s̨͓̜̺̹̬̮̞̹͔̟͉̳̗̮̭̱̟͚̘ͮͩ́̿̓́ͥ͐̂̃ͪ͜ t̥̟̺̙͍̻̬̰ͦͦ̋̄̓ͪͧ̀ͬͧͫ́ͧͮͭͥ͘̕͡  ̢̨͌̈̇ͨ͆̑ͪ̂ͩ̿̌͡͞҉͚̰̹̣̦̬͓̳͚̻̺̰̣͈ p̵̩̘͔̞̳̮̦̙̼͎͒́̑ͣ̓̀͊̇͌̈ͦͬ̀ ơ̢̨̜̠̭͍͚̳͎͎̤̞̣̺̦̺͈̰͖̠ͧ͋̄͑̄̈́̀ͯ̓ͫ̚͠͠ s̩͓͎̼̑̍ͫͪ́ͩ̉̽̃̽͗̀̕͝ t̢̿͂̆͒ͭ̑̊̇̅͑͆ͥ́̆̌̓̊̚̕͏̘̩͍͚͎̯̘̥͇͓̀ͅ e̷ͮ̓̅͛̈́̽̚͘͢͏̧͚̞͚͎̣̥̲̜̯̣͚̳̱̫̯ ŗ̼̥̻̣͙͉̻̭̮͚̹͙̯̜̣̻̫͊͆̓̍̈̊́͘ͅ  ̸͉̲̖͇͙̇͒ͣͫ̏͛͂̌͛̀͘ ǫ̘̘̰̦͎̙̯̮͙̜̪̳̦̺̼͋̒̔̑ͧ̒̊̂̌̽ͭ̎̾̒̎̔̒ f̷̖͙̫̥̙̬̮̻̻ͨ̃̄̒̽ͤ͂ͭͨ͆̒̂ͤ͂̕͝  ̓͐̇̆ͫ̋́̄̔͗ͣͤ͊̇ͤ̊̚͠҉̴̸̹̣̭͓̙̳̮̖̘͔͚͇̬͚̖͜ aͭ̾̑̅ͣ̒ͩͥ̉̓ͩ́͑̆̓̈̐̅҉̷̨̛̥͈̺̮̖̺̞ l̢̲̭͚͙̬͔̰̬̺̬̝͇͙͉͕͓̹̅ͥ̐̇ͬ̈́ͤ́͑ͫ͗͋͛͋͡͠ͅͅ l̞͓̙̞͕͔̭͕̼̣̼͕͚̝̼ͬͯͣ̑͋́͘  ̽̓̄ͮͭ͊ͥͬ͊ͬ̿ͫ̆҉̪̼̪̣̹̘̙͓̯͕̙̱̜͎̺̞̝ ţ̷̪͈̝̠̲̟̠̠̖̒̽̃͑̃́͘͘ͅ į̴̧̺̰̟̺̼̙̫̬ͯ͊̽̀̂ͫ̈́͌͌ͯͩͦͯ́̕ m̷̨̨̥̲̞͉̻͓͉̠̩͉̗͚͔̗͂̓̎̾̉̕͞ͅ ḙ̶̵̭͙̺͉̘̩̥͓̞̭̩̻̠͋ͥ̿̑̋͋͘͜ .ͯ͊̈̽ͮͣ̇̉̋͂̄̽̐͌̆͊̐̚̚͜҉̢̡͔͖͓͓̰̲͓͔̳̪͍̰̬̝

^
that shit is text

http://www.stuffbydavid.com/textcolorizer
http://www.zalgotext.net/

633
Serious / "Death is the worst thing that could happen to you."
« on: May 26, 2015, 11:55:58 PM »
I have a simple question.

Do you agree with the following premise:

"Death is the worst thing that could happen to you."

Consider this a litmus test. There IS a correct answer, and I know most of you will get it right.
I'd just like to see where your priorities lie.

634
Inconvenient truths, paradoxes, etc.

These are some of my favorite things:
  • There is no god (obligatory).
  • 99.99...% of people don't care about you or your accomplishments.
  • 99.99...% of people, whether they're willing to admit it or not, only care about themselves, and that's not okay.
  • Weight loss requires hard work and dedication. There are no shortcuts to fitness.
  • If the human race went extinct, the universe would not weep for us.
  • 99.99...% of things considered valuable by humans are not actually of any intrinsic value.
  • Gender, as opposed to sex, is a meaningless social construct.

More.

635
The Flood / opinions you don't think anyone else has
« on: May 26, 2015, 02:49:47 AM »
i have one or two

for example:

i thought anchorman sucked

636
The Flood / This video is fucking immaculate.
« on: May 23, 2015, 09:17:31 PM »
YouTube

i know, i know
>veganism
>inmendham
>50 minutes

Look, I don't even care. I just have to share this.

There are many "best parts", but here's one of the best parts:

"You don't deserve the privileges of civilization, the rights that you gain access to, the benefits, if you're going to accept exploitation and torture as a way of extracting those goodies from the universe."

637
Serious / Logical fallacies that are the bane of your existence.
« on: May 23, 2015, 01:13:45 PM »
When having a debate with someone, your opposition might commit a logical fallacy that is so infuriating, so overused, and so hair-ripped-out-of-your-skull fallacious, that seeing it used by an individual who considers himself intelligent one more time might actually make you go fucking insane.

I can think of two loathsome cunts at the top of my head, but there'll certainly be more as I remember them.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_nature

In order to understand how much I hate this fallacy, consider this website. As of posting this, there are 700,000 posts in 35,000 topics in this entire forum. Each post can contain a maximum of 10,000 characters. If I were to replace the text of each and every one of these posts with the word "HATE", I would be able to fit 2500 repeated instances of it in each and every post (if I did not include spaces). So if each post is worth 2500 "hate", and there are 700,000 posts, that would equal 1,750,000,000 "hate".

This does not equal one one billionth of the hate that I have for this logical fallacy.

People who treat nature like it's the arbiter of reason are no better than religious fanatics. I'm convinced that there are no real atheists, because 99% of atheists (damn near), as soon as they figure out the obvious truth that there is no god, the next thing they do is convert to "Gaiaism". Yeah, that's right--Gaia is their new god. Nature is infallible. Evolution is perfect. Darwinism is intelligent. Everything about nature is perfect and sublime and flawless and we should all strive not to transcend our humanity, but maintain our humanity. Keep being the stupid fucking animal that Gaia "wants" you to be.

"Having children is okay, Verb! It's completely natural!"
"Eating meat is okay, Verb! It's completely natural!"

Murder, anger, rape, torture, pain, suffering. Sadness. Depression. Humanity.
You know what these all have in common? They're all NATURAL! :D

And they all fucking suck. Especially that last one.

I'm extremely anti-nature, in the sense that I think nature is absolutely fucked. I have no respect for nature's design of sentient life. No intelligent force could ever create life the way it is, and it's the #1 reason why I think the perpetuation of the species is wrong. Everything about us is a fucking burden. We're essentially trapped in a big bubble in space with limited oxygen, limited resources, and limited intelligence. Very limited intelligence. To the extent that so many "intellectuals" who consider themselves "enlightened" can't get over the simple truth that life fucking sucks. Not that life sucks, like, "Oh, wow, life is really unenjoyable." No, not that kind of suck. Life sucks as a function. It functionally... sucks. It's something that it does. It SUCKS. Get it? And we shouldn't fucking embrace it. Everything about the human condition is shit, and we ought to change it. Because luckily, we have enough intelligence to rationally deduct that 90% of the shit we're doing on this rock is for the birds.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_fallacy

I don't hate this one as much, but it is a pretty big pet peeve of mine, simply because nobody knows how to fucking use it.

Here's how it happens:

I'm having an argument with you, and I notice that you made an appeal to nature fallacy. So I go to yourlogicalfallacyis.com to link you to their page on that particular fallacy. It's a good go-to website to politely notify your opposition of their argumentative ineptitude.

And then you respond by posting the link to this page: https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/the-fallacy-fallacy

Sigh.

No. That's not how the fallacy works. You don't get to tell me that I'm wrong simply for pointing out that a logical fallacy has been made. If you could do that, it would nullify the entire website, wouldn't it? No one would ever be able to point out any logical fallacies, ever, because you can just call fallacy fallacy.

The way you're supposed to apply the fallacy is if I say, "You made an appeal to nature; therefore, your argument is false." That would be a fallacy fallacy. Simply pointing out that you made a fallacious argument, however, isn't fallacious in itself. How could it be? All it means is that you argued for your cause poorly. Even if your case happened to be the correct one, do you honestly think the appeal to nature is going to be a good way to convince people? It shouldn't.



Your turn.

638
Gaming / Banned on Showdown
« on: May 22, 2015, 09:34:09 PM »
For "impersonation".

Again.

There happens to be another mod who goes by Verbatim there, so when I posted one thing in the chat, all the dumbfuck mods thought I was impersonating him. Because they're dumbfucks. Because I've been through this with them already.

Dumbfucks.

Anyway, I'm only posting this thread here to help prove that I'm not impersonating anyone, and I've been going by "verbatim" for fucking years now. I'll post them the link to this thread here. They probably won't appreciate me calling them "dumbfucks", but then again, I don't really appreciate being banned for stupid shit, either.

639
The Flood / Attn: Meta (okay i guess the rest of you can come too)
« on: May 21, 2015, 10:45:19 AM »
YouTube


i think you'll get a kick out of this

640
The Flood / How would you feel if everything you've created...
« on: May 20, 2015, 03:38:26 PM »
How would you feel if everything you've created, and everything you will create, will be attributed to someone else for the rest of time?

Would you stop creating things, or would you continue for the sake of it?

641
The Flood / Perfect Grammar Thread
« on: May 19, 2015, 05:30:36 PM »
Only post in this thread if you have perfect grammar.

All posts containing imperfect grammar will be contemptuously and meticulously scrutinized.

642
The Flood / New artists that deserve exposure
« on: May 16, 2015, 08:47:28 PM »
Nah.

YouTube

What sounds like a shameless Death Grips wannabe is actually a surprisingly well-crafted EP.

He does everything himself.

I hope this guy goes places.

643
The Flood / How does this make you feel?
« on: May 15, 2015, 11:34:50 PM »
YouTube

644
The Flood / (☠) memes that need to die
« on: May 15, 2015, 12:37:24 PM »
besides all of them
which would be my first answer

>calling anime "chinese cartoons"

LOL IT'S FUNNY BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT ACTUALLY CHINESE
except no, it was never funny
ever

inb4me

645
Gaming / Jade - Positive Female Characters in Video Games
« on: May 12, 2015, 12:29:57 PM »
TRIGGER WARNING:
This video contains feminism. If you are a small-minded bigot/misogynist, proceed with caution.

YouTube
Transcript
Jade – Positive Female Character Transcript

Jade: My name is Jade. And I haven’t the foggiest how we’re gonna get out of here.

Jade is the protagonist of the 2003 third-person action adventure game Beyond Good & Evil. She’s a brave photojournalist who sets out to uncover a conspiracy between alien invaders and her own corrupt government.

Jade: They’re coming! Quick, Venn, jump up!

We start getting a sense of who Jade is from the moment we see her, and refreshingly…

Jade: Go tell Pey’j! I’ll take care of the shield.

…she actually looks the part of the active, practical young woman of color who has a job to do.

Computer 1: Shield activated.

We learn about who characters are not just from the things they say and do, but also from how they look: visual design is an important way for game designers to communicate information at a glance about a character’s experience and personality traits. Sadly, women in games are often depicted in wildly impractical, sexualized clothing designed to make them appealing to straight male players. But Jade isn’t designed to fulfill someone else’s fantasy. The midriff top is a little silly, but for the most part, she looks like someone who is dressed to accommodate her own needs. I mean, you don’t get much more practical than cargo pants.

Games often give us heroes who are either fantastically wealthy, like the Bruce Waynes and Lara Crofts of the world, or who at least don’t have practical, everyday concerns about money. But money is not just an abstract concept for Jade. She’s a working class character with real financial struggles. This is established at the very beginning of the game, when we learn that the orphanage’s electricity has been shut off, and Uncle Pey’j’s hovercraft is in dire need of repair.

Computer 1: Shield disabled.
Computer 2: Your Optima account is…

Computer 1: 350

Computer 2: …units short. Your electrical supply has just been blocked.

Jade: You’ve got to be joking!

These are characters who struggle just to make ends meet, and for them, concerns about their economic situation have real implications for their ability to provide for themselves and their adopted family.

Jade: We’re stuck here. No hovercraft, no shield. Optima has cut off the power, the account is empty.

In order to pay the bills, we’re introduced to a mechanic that establishes one of Jade’s creative talents: photography. Throughout the game, she is paid to document and catalogue the diverse animal life on the planet with her camera.

Science Center Director: Hi Jade. I see Secundo already talked to you about the job. The war is taking its toll. We need a complete inventory of all species living on the planet.

Instead of just showing or offhandedly telling us about her skills in cutscenes, the designers have built character development right into the gameplay, giving players a pleasant, nonviolent way of interacting with and appreciating the beauty of the game’s world while simultaneously reinforcing that Jade is a woman of many talents. Edge Magazine insightfully observed that part of what makes Jade so memorable is “the fact that she views this strange world and all of its careworn inhabitants through the lens of a camera, rather than the scope of an assault rifle.”

Pey’j: Hey, Jade! A school of blue scorpion fish!

This not only gives Jade more depth, but also encourages the player to view the lifeforms of Hillys with some measure of respect, rather than seeing them solely as enemies to be destroyed.

Science Center Director: From the same family as the scorpion fish. Very difficult to photograph.

While many games center on so-called “heroes” who are out for personal glory or revenge, Beyond Good & Evil’s narrative establishes Jade’s altruistic desire to achieve social justice. It’s worth noting that Jade avoids falling into the tired cliché of the tough as nails, solve-all-problems-with-violence “strong female character” archetype. Her quest is not about her pain, nor is it about taking satisfaction in exacting violent retribution.

Jade: If there’s a way to stop this war, we can’t let it pass us by.

It’s about protecting her world and the people she cares about, and unlike so many one-dimensional brooding heroes who are characterized by their own suffering, Jade does not wear the mantle of hero like a heavy burden; instead she retains her warmth and humanity over the course of her quest.

Pey’j: Ha ha ha! Not bad for a little girl and an old ham!

Jade: We did it Pey’j! Heh. Not bad for an old fart.

Together with Uncle Pey’j, a mechanically savvy anthropomorphized boar, Jade looks after a group of war-orphaned children, sheltering them in a lighthouse on the mining planet of Hillys.Though Hillys is, on the surface, a colorful and inviting place, not all is well in this world. We learn early on that an alien race has been attacking and abducting residents.

Reporter: Here on Hillys, war has once again reared its ugly head, striking the civilian population. Luckily our elite forces have once again arrived in the nick of time. I’m coming to you live from the southern lighthouse shelter. Here is where some of the children whose parents have been captured by the Dons have been taken in by two devoted and courageous Hillyans. Miss, a word for our listeners…

Jade: Uhh…

Pey’j: Yeah, yeah. Well you guys are not what I call as fast as a speeding bullet. Keep doing nuthin’ and next time, thery’ll be nuthin’ left here to see!

Reporter: Cut!

Recruited by a resistance organization called the IRIS network, Jade uncovers a vast conspiracy between the invading aliens and the government, with the corporate news media complicit in covering up the truth.

Mino: Here’s what we know. The victims are kidnapped by Alpha Section agents. They are then taken to the Nutripills factory. Shuttles are then used to take them to the old slaughterhouses. And from there, they are loaded into military cruisers headed for the moon.

There’s a subtle but subversive political dimension to Beyond Good & Evil’s narrative which highlights the importance of questioning mass media messages and challenging institutions of power that perpetuate injustice.

As a member of a resistance group, Jade uses her talents as a photographer to collect evidence documenting the conspiracy,

Science Center Director: Upper floor? Ok, I see where you’re at. We’ll start the deciphering program.

and her combat skills to help rescue kidnapped members of the IRIS Network. But she rarely goes it alone. Jade starts out the game with Uncle Pey’j by her side, and the way the characters interact makes Pey’j feel more like a partner than a mere sidekick.

In this early scene, Jade is trapped until Pey’j appears, throwing her a staff she uses to free herself and overcome the destructive alien force.

Pey’j: Hang on Jade! I’m coming! Free yourself, Jade. I’ll create a diversion.

It may seem like a minor detail, but the fact that Pey’j tells Jade to free herself, instead of doing it for her, is incredibly important. He assists her but doesn’t rescue her. He knows that even in this situation, she’s far from helpless, and the fact that Pey’j treats her as a capable partner encourages us to see her that way, too.

This moment also evokes a sense of mutual respect and partnership between these two characters, in a way that is all too rare for female characters in gaming.

Eventually, Uncle Pey’j is kidnapped, and Jade is determined to rescue him.

As a quick side note, It’s important to point out that a kidnapped male character saved by a woman and a kidnapped female character saved by a man are not equivalent, because while a damsel in distress reinforces longstanding regressive myths about women as a group being weak or helpless specifically because of their gender, a dude in distress does not reinforce any such ideas about men. For more on the relatively rare dude in distress inversion, see part 3 of my videos on the damsel trope.

Many games present an image of bravery and courage that suggests heroes are fiercely independent, rugged individualists. In those games in which heroes do have sidekicks, those sidekicks often serve as cheerleaders and ego boosters for the player, complimenting them on their skill and accomplishments, or as impediments, preventing them from progressing to a new section until they’ve completed some task. In Beyond Good & Evil, Jade’s sidekicks, Pey’j and later Double H, feel not like cheerleaders or roadblocks but like active companions who want to use their unique skills to assist Jade when they accompany her on a mission.

Pey’j: Ha ha! Say when, Jade! Jet boots attack!

There’s a sense of both good-natured humor and respect written into the banter between Jade and her sidekicks: she’s warm but also assertive, and the tone of their interactions makes it clear that they aren’t designed just to make her or the player feel better.

Pey’j: Ok. We’re going to have to keep on our toes now, Jade.

Jade: Don’t worry, uncle Pey’j. We’ll just take some pictures and get home.

The mechanics aren’t significantly different from those associated with sidekicks in many other games: these characters fight enemies and are attacked by enemies; and often their special abilities, Pey’j’s jet boots and Double H’s bull rush, must be used to advance. But because the writing so effectively creates a sense of respect and camaraderie between Jade and her companions, these relationships become much more than simple gameplay interactions.

Pey’j: Thanks, Jade. I’d’ve ended up on a silver platter with an apple in my mouth if it wasn’t for you.

Jade: Mmmm. Shut up. You’re making me hungry. I’m gonna regret saving you.

They become a vital and memorable part of the experience of playing Beyond Good & Evil, and work to emphasize the game’s themes of friendship and cooperation.

For years there have been rumours and even a teaser trailer about a Beyond Good and Evil 2. I hope this actually happens but whether or not that sequel ever gets made, we definitely need more games with warm, compassionate, multitalented characters who have realistic and relatable concerns, and more narratives in which taking a stand against corrupt systems of power is more important than personal gain or revenge.

The newest installment of Anita Sarkeesian's new series, which I love.

Deal with it.

646
Serious / "You should absolutely be forced to be vegan."
« on: May 11, 2015, 08:48:01 PM »
So there's a YouTuber by the name of Freelee the Banana Girl. Though she has over 350K subscribers, I've never actually seen any of her videos until today, but after taking a cursory perusal of her channel, it looks as though she just makes vlogs about dieting, nutrition, and suchlike.

A few days ago, she uploaded this rant video, entitled "What do YOU think? ...", wherein she expresses, quite militantly, her philosophy of veganism, and how "you should be forced to be vegan."

YouTube
Transcript
Hey, fruit bats.

So, I just woke up, and I was thinking about something in bed which I think about quite often, and that's whether people who continue to eat meat and dairy, even though they know the impact of their diet choices on the planet, on the animals, they've watched Earthlings, they know all the facts, they've been educated, but they choose to continue eating animal products—whether they actually deserve to continue living.

And that might be, like, so extreme-sounding to you, so dramatic, but I gotta break it to you—we live in an extreme, dramatic world. There's a lot of fucked-up shit going on. There's a lot of negative shit going on. And, I know there's a lot of unicorn-huggers out there, you unicorn-huggers are like, "Oh, Freelee, you're so negative! You always focus on the negative! Oh, Freelee, be more positive! Freelee this, Freelee that! Oh my God, you know, you create your own reality, Freelee!"

And, you know what? I agree to a certain degree you create your own reality. But, the slaughterhouses still exist. The fur farms still fucking exist. They are still there regardless of you turning a blind eye to them and focusing on other things. They are still there. Animals are still having their fur ripped off their back. Animals are still having anal electrocution. They're still having their throats slit, their skulls crushed. That shit is still going on. And yes, it's negative. And we need to bring attention to it to make a positive change! That's what's positive about the focus of, you know, animal rights activists and people who actually give a shit about the planet. And focus on these negative things to turn them into positives.

So, ignoring that stuff is not being positive. It's not being enlightened. It's just being ignorant. So, it's important to make that distinction. And am I being too extreme? And yes, it does include family members of mine who actually continue eating meat and dairy, and I love them very much, but we are in this situation where drastic change needs to happen, and people aren't taking it fucking serious enough. And if they—if their position on the planet was threatened because of their dietary choices, they would change to vegan in a heartbeat. That's the truth of the matter. Because it's so fucking easy to be vegan, as well.

And people kind of just treat it like, you know, it's just like a casual thing, like, anyone can, you know, "You can make your choice, I make mine. Just, mind your own business." You know, I'm sure you've had that sort of, like, comment as a vegan—"Oh, I'm really, like, happy for you that you choose vegan, good on you! That's fantastic! But, no, I could never do it." It's like, you shouldn't have the choice! You should be forced to be vegan. You should absolutely be forced to be vegan. The situation the planet is in, we cannot wait for you to fucking get your shit together. We cannot wait. The animals cannot wait.

Yeah, so, as you can see, I'm really passionate about this. And do I wanna kill people? No, I don't wanna kill people. And yes, I was in that situation before where I didn't know. I didn't know about the meat and dairy industry. No, I didn't have a fucking clue. But I educated myself. So these people who have educated themselves, but are like, "Nah, I don't feel like doing it right now. I don't feel like doing it. You know, I've heard—I knew a vegan once, and they were like, they were, you know, a little bit weak, and they couldn't do this and that," and you know, like, just some, you know, "I knew a vegan once who had a child, and the child had deficiencies," or some shit, you know, like, just looking for excuses. No, you should not have that option! You just gotta step the fuck up. Or you really don't deserve to live on this planet.



Now, I'm a vegan, so for me, this video was great propaganda. I do, on occasion, like to hear my own opinions echoed back at me, and I do happen to agree with the majority of the points she made in her video. Naturally, however, this video is blowing up—I discovered it after having seen three video responses on my YouTube feed, all of a bunch of indignant meat-eaters defending their ethically-questionable dietary choice. Currently, the video has a 2:3 like-to-dislike ratio, which is a pretty bad sign if you're a YouTuber with a six-digit subscriber count. Though, it seems like she's taking it rather well.

The point I wanted to focus on, however, was the point that I personally found the most interesting (or the point everyone else is up-in-arms over), and that's her argument that everyone should be forced to become a vegan.

It's an interesting point, because when I was first watching the video, I was thinking to myself, "Yeah, totally. Of course," but then soon after, I was like, "Eh, nah, that wouldn't be right. She's just being too extreme."

But then I thought about it even more.

Coercion, of any sort, is something that, as most of you should know by now, I'm wholly against. Though, as a vegan, I believe killing a sentient animal is essentially the same thing as murder—the same thing as killing a human being. They are both just as bad as one another. The difference, of course, is that murder is illegal. As a result of our speciesist value system, we have sanctioned that slaughtering animals is okay, because that's the dictum of nature—"survival of of the fittest", and other speciesist platitudes.

But how do you force someone into something, anyway? Are we forced not to murder people, because murder is illegal? I would argue that, if murder was decriminalized (or, hell, straight-up legalized), most of the human race would still refrain from killing anybody. Sure, there would be a lot of crazy fucks who might go on a killing spree shortly thereafter, but generally speaking, I think it's a safe argument to make that people don't need the law to tell them what not to do. Just like you don't need God to tell you what not to do.

As a result, I don't think anyone here on this forum would make a bold statement like, "I want to be a murderer, but I'm being forced not to by the state!" That would be a little bit silly. "Force" implies direct action, and you really can't actually force anyone not to kill—you can only convince them, logically, that killing is wrong, and if they don't agree, then you can incarcerate them if they fail to abide by that basic law.

How could anyone, then, be forced to become a vegan? If vegans had it their way, and the meat & dairy industry was not only destroyed once and for all, but the slaughtering of animals was also criminalized, does that necessarily entail any coercive measure to turn everyone into a vegan? No, I don't think so. If you like to eat meat, and there's no industry to provide you with meat, you have two options at that point:
1. Suck it up.
2. Break the law.

I'm not condoning that you break the law, here, either. Just the opposite. All I'm saying is, this idea you should be "forced" into veganism is nonsensical, because you cannot feasibly do it. There are laws already in place that fail to "force" anyone into doing anything. All Freelee is saying, essentially, is that everyone should be a vegan—using words like "force", as I interpreted it, was merely a hyperbolic gushing of passion. It irritates me that everyone is scrutinizing this particular bit, because the idea behind what she's saying is rather clear, but because she had to use the word, now she's being labeled an extremist, and a Nazi, and all these other ridiculous names.

The other thing that people hate, of course, is just her tone, as if that has anything to do with her arguments. Not only does she seem angry—she seems to really want to get under meat-eaters' skin. She really wants to get a rise out of them. So she's a bit of a rabble-rouser. She uses words like "ignorant", "we cannot wait," and "get your shit together". And a lot of people in the comments section don't like that. I'll be responding to a couple here.



Except at no point in her three-minute video did she ever make any remark that resembled "humans aren't as important as animals." Personally, I don't think of humans as less important than animals—they represent the same level of value. Animals are worth no more or less than humans. Humans are worth no more or less than animals. Humans are animals. We don't kill humans for food. We shouldn't kill animals for food, either. It's really not that complicated.



I'm not sure what her "unspoken failings" have to do with the fucking video, actually. Ad hominem attacks are a classic for indignant meat-eaters. If someone dares to exert any level of ethical superiority to another, don't expect any rational discussion from the meat-eaters. Responses like this are truly indicative that most meat-eaters have about as many legs to stand on as their chopped livestock.



Yes, anyone who's not a good, rational person who understands basic, fundamental ethical standards of value should probably die. Yes. I know, I'm just horrible. But once again, we just have another literal-minded, easily-offended, weakly-constituted individual who's going to take passionate, hyperbolic statements out of context, inflate them, and conflate them with decidedly evil, unscrupulous individuals.



You're a spineless, petty cunt.

And you obviously never wanted to become a vegan anyway. So that makes you a duplicitous cunt, too.



As an addendum, I think this Freelee chick is very aware that she's not going to make any friends with this video, let alone convert anyone into veganism. She woke up and decided to spit some fire at the people she so despises, which... I can relate to. You can argue that she's only making it harder on herself, and for all vegans, to spread her message, because people don't respond well to vitriol. Not to mention being told what to do. But the thing is, she's absolutely right. We live in a very dark, serious world, and sometimes, if there's something colossally fucked up in society, it takes a lot more than a cordial, meek, capitulating tone to get one's message across. Some of us have been vegans for a very long time, and as a result, we are confronted with the same stupid arguments time and time again. It's very trying, and some of us simply lack the patience to hold your hand through the simple choice that is veganism. And it is a simple choice.

Do I harbor any animosity towards meat-eaters? Maybe a little bit. If you were running short on time, and you simply ran to McDonald's to pick yourself up a chicken sandwich, will I hold that against you? No, I won't. No more than I'd hold it against you if you killed a spider in your house, instead of releasing it outside. But what irritates me the most is when meat-eaters try to justify themselves. A lot of my friends do that. They'll say stuff to me, like, "Uhhh, I had a hamburger for lunch," and then they'll add, "...but that was it," nervously, as though I'm going to lash out at them for doing what 99.99% of the human race does on a daily basis. Or they'll say, "You know, I only eat meat when I have to, you know what I mean? Like, I had nothing else to eat."

The truth is, you never have to, and you most certainly have other alternatives. But it really weirds me out when I have my friends try to walk on eggshells around me whenever they bring up the fact that they've been eating animal products. The truth is, I'm not that anal about it. I'll only ever get annoyed when people start trying to placate me. I'd much rather people look at themselves and say, "I eat meat. I know it's wrong, but I can't help it, because I am too x." And that x isn't going to be a flattering term. But my point is, if you eat meat, own it. Don't try to defend yourself. You're just making yourself look bad. Worse.

647
The Flood / Music that gets you "right there".
« on: May 07, 2015, 11:28:44 AM »
Right there:
 
YouTube

648
The Flood / Favorite music collaborations
« on: May 01, 2015, 10:47:06 AM »
YouTube

This is a song created for Sound City, a documentary by Dave Grohl about the history of a special recording studio. The song features Dave Grohl on drums, Josh Homme on bass, and Trent Reznor on keyboard. It's pretty tight, as one may imagine from these three artists.

Here's a version with guitar & vocals. I prefer the instrumental I posted above, if not only to see Trent's cheesy grin at the end when they finish recording.

Are there any sweet collaborations you know of?

649
The Flood / It has been one year since the canon died.
« on: April 24, 2015, 06:54:55 PM »
Where were you when?

I was celebrating.

650
The Flood / we're arguing about irony now
« on: April 19, 2015, 07:05:12 PM »
original title: elegiac surpassed byrne's post count

http://sep7agon.net/index.php?action=mlist;sort=posts;start=0;desc

this matters

how does it feel to be second banana again, byrne

651
The Flood / Random superpower.
« on: April 19, 2015, 01:56:13 PM »
Click here to receive a random superpower.

i think i saw a thread like this before on bnet, and it was fun

I got Sacred Darkness Manipulation.
I don't know what that is, but it sounds cool.

652
The Flood / 10/10 albums
« on: April 19, 2015, 08:30:08 AM »


ever since last year, i've been heavily broadening my musical horizons
but i've yet to hear a single album, other than the one above, that i'd rate a perfect 10

so, i'll try seek one out

what albums would you consider perfect 10s, if any

653
Serious / When does an analogy become too extreme?
« on: April 15, 2015, 07:46:03 PM »
Trick question: It can't.

An analogy cannot be too extreme. In any discussion, you should be able to analogize any two distinct things without anyone saying, "Wow, I can't believe you're trying to compare murder with something so innocuous," as if the point of the analogy was to compare murder and the innocuous thing.

Analogies are meant to establish parallels between the logical thread of two things. They're not meant to be perfect comparisons. To attack the imperfections of an analogy rather than the analogy itself is, in my opinion, an ad hominem. You're attacking someone's verbal capabilities, their eloquence, rather than the actual argument.

It is fallacious to assume that an argument is false simply because it was poorly argued. Sometimes, people compare innocuous things to extreme things like murder or rape simply because they really want to apply your logic to a real circumstance. And if your logic doesn't hold up in any REAL circumstance, it probably shouldn't hold up in any case.

I wish I could come up with examples at the top of my head, but I'd like to see other people's opinions on this first.

654
The Flood / is anyone else like this
« on: April 14, 2015, 09:47:42 PM »
procrastination has become such a part of my work ethic (or lack thereof), that i tend to work the hardest--i tend to do my very best and put in the most effort--when i only have a couple hours to finish the project

if i'm given a week to write an essay, and i don't want to write the essay, i'll wait until the last hour
and in that hour, i will be in the zone

and it always ends up working out--i always get an A

but i mean... that's kinda bad, ain't it
does anyone else function this way

655
there IS a correct answer

oh, and if you think it wouldn't make a difference, you're fucking stupid

656
Gaming / Anita Sarkeesian - Positive Female Characters in Video Games
« on: March 31, 2015, 02:56:27 PM »
YouTube


This new series appears to be what a lot of Anita's detractors have been looking for--instead of complaining about poor examples of female representation in video games, this series is about celebrating female characters that aren't damsels in distress, aren't sexualized, and aren't objectified by any other means.

I recognize that she's sort of a pariah in the gaming community, but regardless, I've always enjoyed her videos, and this Tropes vs. Women series she's been doing is my favorite in her repertoire--if not just because it's funny seeing so many people get pissed off over her opinions.

I don't really see how anyone can fault her for this particular series, however.

657
Gaming / Favorite Pokémon Picker
« on: March 30, 2015, 06:37:34 PM »
http://www.dragonflycave.com/favorite.html

there's like, 721 of these things out right now--almost a 500% jump from where we started
so you might think you know your favorite pokemon, but you probably don't

so use this thing to help you determine it

i would keep going until you produce a top 5, or a top 10 if you wanna go that far



they're like... all Gen I, lol
but i can't say it's at all inaccurate

trust me, i'm not a genwunner

658
Serious / Genocide and such
« on: March 27, 2015, 05:38:47 PM »
topic:

anti-natalism isn't genocidal, and if you think so, you're wrong

i thought challengerX was trolling when he first said it, but it seems like he REALLY IS that fucking insane



according to you, we're all already killing babies by not having them, so
I said forcing people to not have babies is genocide, not whatever the fuck it is you're saying.
so you're saying EXACTLY what i said you were saying, then

you think not having children = killing children

that is EXACTLY what you just said

659
The Flood / how do you choose between "lol", "lmao", and "rofl"
« on: March 26, 2015, 03:22:59 PM »
i don't use acronyms, often

so this kinda confuses me

from what i can tell, there's sort of an innate hierarchy going on where "lmao" is more intense than "lol"
but "LOL" in all caps can also be an intensifier

and what's a more intense expression of laughter--"lmao" or "rofl" or "LOL"?
how are you supposed to choose

do you even put that much thought into it, or is it all just arbitrary and you just pick whatever

660

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