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9751
On the other hand, an incorporated business isn't a requirement to sell or trade things; Craigslist and eBay are two examples of private selling mediums that are perfectly legal. And if, as I asked in the OP, pirates paid some sort of nominal fee (or maybe not even nominal; what if alternatives to Steam sold cracked game keys for competitive prices, like $30 for new games), would that justify it? Is the simple act of a transaction enough to eliminate the moral issues?

I think the bigger issue here is that used sales and rentals involve a single copy trading hands (and a rental is more or less like a repeated used sale), rather than a pirated version being highly distributed. But there's just something off about retailers making money off the sale of used or rented games. Surely anyone that copied or distributed any other form of IP for profit would be smacked with a lawsuit.
Well, do you think they should be smacked with a lawsuit? I think that seems a little predatory--I think maintaining a large collection or library of legally acquired games is a fair and honest business, and I don't necessarily believe in game publishers making double revenue for one singular copy of a game that was already paid for, either.

You bring up a good point with the Craigslist thing, though, and I'm reading a little bit about that now. Obviously, it shouldn't be illegal for private individuals to sell and trade shit with each other, which is why I draw the line at unlawful reproduction.

9752
This is actually something I haven't thought of. Technically renting is worse than piracy.
But not in the least.
Why not?
I already explained above. Retailers are legally permitted to provide paid rental services.

Morally, why should I not be able to try out a game--or any product--before committing to a purchase?

It's consumer protection, if anything.

9753
Gaming / Re: Breath of the Wild Thread - Make Way For GOTY
« on: April 08, 2017, 12:56:00 PM »
I haven't been playing because of work. I really really want to get back in, but it's hard lately. Fuck me sideways.

9754
Is the justification in the scale of the distribution, i.e., one purchased copy may be pirated thousands of times, whereas a single rental disc may only be used a handful of times? At that point, when does rental becoming piracy -- 20 times, 50, 100, etc.? What if a user buys a game, uploads it, and it's only downloaded once?
It never does, because it's still just one copy. 7 billion people could use that copy and it wouldn't be piracy, especially if it was paid for 7 billion times. Hyper-generalized example, but I think you know what I'm saying.

"What if a user buys a game, uploads it, and it's only downloaded once?"

Then that's an illegally reproduced copy, as I discussed earlier. Bad.

9755
tbh systemrequirements lab is full of shit, youll run games at max it says you dont meet minimum requirements for and itll say you can max games with a toaster
Maybe there's a better website, I don't know. Not a PC gamer.

9756
because that person never intended to buy the game in the first place, therefore no sale was lost. Regardless of how dubious and absurd that premise is
Why is that such an absurd premise? It holds true for pretty much everything I end up downloading.
Because it rather blithely misses the point, and that because "loss of sales" is not the more pertinent issue.

You don't have the right, ethically, to use any good or service that was intended to be paid for, if you indeed chose not to pay for it. It doesn't matter how you personally feel about that--whether you personally intend to pay for the product is irrelevant. You have to, regardless of how you feel.

9757
This is actually something I haven't thought of. Technically renting is worse than piracy.
But not in the least.

9758
But you don't pay to play it; the publishers (and developers) get nothing from rentals or used sales. If you feel this way, how would you respond to my question about paying a nominal fee for a pirated copy? And at that point, how are rentals and used sales not worse than pirating, since those retailers get profit from selling the game, whereas people that upload copies of games make no money at all?
Retail is a business, and like all business, you need a license to legally conduct it. I imagine this also applies to manufacturers. Does anyone have the right, ethical or legal, to "manufacture" (upload) copies of game software (because every download is essentially a new copy produced) and distribute them for free without any sort of licensing agreement? I don't think so--and if they do, they shouldn't.

Like I said before--I'm okay if the pub and devs don't make a profit as long as someone's palms are crossed with silver for the one copy, legally. The original copy was already paid for, just as Psy said, and now it's just trading hands, which is perfectly fine. Producing multiple copies without permit is probably the bigger issue.

9759
I think there is actually a clause in the EULA about pay for play and renting.
Basically, you are not permitted to rent out a game and if you do, you are breaching the eula.
So renting is as bad as piracy.
Wow, I really doubt that.

edit:
Yeah, I'm not getting any results for that. Probably because renting has been a heavily commercialized facility of the industry for years and years, and if there were any sort of legal quandaries surrounding it whatsoever, I'd suspect they'd have been dealt with and put to rest by now.

Even then, strictly from a moral standpoint, I don't see how renting could possibly be considered as bad as piracy.

9760
I look at it in a much simpler manner tbh

If you buy a game, you paid to play it.
If you rent a game, you paid to play it for a short time.
If you buy a used game, you still paid to play it but someone else paid to play it first.

If you steal it, you are paying nothing to play it and you are a god damn thieving dindu who deserves the gibbet rather than gibs.

I personally like the ''''b-b-b-b-b-b-ut i'm trying it out to see if i like it/can run it abubububub''''
Steam has done refunds for a while now, there is no excuse.
This 100%, it really is that simple in my mind as well.

Demos also exist, as well as SystemRequirementsLab.com.

9761
Well, first of all, piracy isn't seen as bad. Only weirdos like me think it's bad.

Anyway, my contention has always been that somebody should be getting paid for supplying the game. I don't care if it's the developers, the publishers, or the retailer. All of them provide one common service: providing me with a valuable product, and that to me is worth money.

9762
Gaming / Re: Fallout 4 is based
« on: April 08, 2017, 08:58:33 AM »
Forgot I made this thread lmao
lay off the alcohol

9763
Gaming / Re: Fallout 4 is based
« on: April 08, 2017, 12:42:25 AM »
You use the mouse to move in the isometric games, not WASD.

Bit like Habbo Hotel innit.
oic

that's fine i guess but it still looks gross

9764
Gaming / Re: Fallout 4 is based
« on: April 08, 2017, 12:14:48 AM »
1 & 2 might actually be playable if they weren't isometric vomit
i would treat them like different games given the gameplay

obviously the people who enjoyed 1 and 2 and whatever else in between were expecting something different from 3
oh i know, i just can't stand that aesthetic, it's so ugly and disorienting

like, hitting D, expecting to go diagonally upward, but i go diagonally downward instead

my favorite

9765
Gaming / Re: Fallout 4 is based
« on: April 07, 2017, 10:56:45 PM »
1 & 2 might actually be playable if they weren't isometric vomit

9766
Gaming / Re: Fallout 4 is based
« on: April 07, 2017, 09:54:46 PM »
but yeah no for real, this is exactly what i'm talking about

9767
Gaming / Re: Fallout 4 is based
« on: April 07, 2017, 09:17:45 PM »
OH GOD WHAT HAPPENED TO MY TEXT
You've got a case of the aesthetics, but to be honest text quirks are a bit tacky. Please be more like everyone else in the future.
brb playing 1 & 2 so that i can carefully explain how bethesda did it better

9768
Gaming / Re: Fallout 4 is based
« on: April 07, 2017, 09:09:19 PM »
OH GOD WHAT HAPPENED TO MY TEXT

9769
Gaming / Re: Fallout 4 is based
« on: April 07, 2017, 09:08:47 PM »
SEE THIS IS WHAT I’M TALKING ABOUT

9770
Gaming / Re: Fallout 4 is based
« on: April 07, 2017, 08:30:17 PM »
"Verb, you're generalizing, I'm a Fallout fan and I'm super cool!"

i'm just waiting

i'm JUST waiting

9771
you might even say that i just call them as i see them

9772
Gaming / Re: Fallout 4 is based
« on: April 07, 2017, 08:26:24 PM »
is their any fan community that isnt though
It's a spectrum. Not only are some communities more insufferable than others, they can also be insufferable in many different ways. Fallout fanboys are of the whiny elitist variety--they tend to go hand-in-hand with PC elitism and other cancerous shit.

9773
does she watch this or something

isnt she like a staunch feminist
it's one of her favorites if i recall correctly

she is a """""sex-positive""""" feminist, which is just another way of saying closet misogynist really
You never really shut up do you?
never ever

9774
Don't let the demons in
that is a really nice theme you got going there

i like that color

9775
Gaming / Re: Fallout 4 is based
« on: April 07, 2017, 07:59:12 PM »
Really, the Fallout community in general has turned me away from the franchise almost completely. They're just really bratty.

9776
Gaming / Re: Fallout 4 is based
« on: April 07, 2017, 07:52:25 PM »
There was a time when I thought Fallout 3 was bad, and everyone and their mother gave me shit for it.

Having beaten it several years later, I can honestly say that I enjoyed it quite thoroughly.

Then, all those people who gave me shit for not liking it before suddenly decided that they hate the game now.

That's my life in a nutshell.

9777
Gaming / Re: Fallout 4 is based
« on: April 07, 2017, 07:48:43 PM »
I was able to enjoy Fallout 3 mainly because I don't give a fuck about the first two games.

I don't really care about 4, either, but I may try New Vegas some day. Maybe.

9778
The Flood / Re: Cooking thread
« on: April 07, 2017, 07:41:22 PM »

still more appetizing than pineapple

9779
The Flood / Re: bungie.net in 2k17 lol
« on: April 07, 2017, 06:53:29 PM »
Baccano! ?
on the list

you've given me incredibly high hopes for it

9780
was 2 nukes not enough?
in 2010+5+2, it should be common knowledge that even 10 nukes wouldn't have been enough

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