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Messages - More Than Mortal

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11881
Serious / Re: A story you won't hear from Sharpton and the race-baiters
« on: October 17, 2014, 02:11:56 PM »
white person kills a black person and isn't punished.

You're saying whites have to be punished
YES, FOR FUC­KING KILLING A PERSON.

Jesus Christ almighty.

11882
Serious / Re: >yfw Mississippi is richer than the EU
« on: October 17, 2014, 01:52:02 PM »
He's right that a lot states should not have been allowed to join the EU though.
If it were comprised of, say, Britain, France, Germany, Benelux, the Netherlands and Scandinavia - with a smaller policy remit - it really wouldn't be a problem.

Benelux?
Belgium, the Netherlands and Luxembourg.

I don't know why I mentioned the Netherlands twice. I think I meant Switzerland.

11884
Serious / Re: >yfw Mississippi is richer than the EU
« on: October 17, 2014, 01:44:32 PM »
He's right that a lot states should not have been allowed to join the EU though.
If it were comprised of, say, Britain, France, Germany, Benelux, the Netherlands and Scandinavia - with a smaller policy remit - it really wouldn't be a problem.

11885
Serious / Re: >yfw Mississippi is richer than the EU
« on: October 17, 2014, 01:10:03 PM »
That's probably because the European Union fuc­king sucks.

11886
Serious / Re: The British Green Party is both great and retarded
« on: October 17, 2014, 12:55:28 PM »
Every party has great and retarded stances tho.
I know, I'm just surprised at the extent of bipolarity I feel.

It's as if the policies it does well are absolutely fantastic and simply necessary for our society, but the ones they get wrong are just as spectacular in their atrocity.

11887
Serious / The British Green Party is both great and retarded
« on: October 17, 2014, 12:49:47 PM »
I'm going to search their policy website, and pick out at least one seriously retarded policy from a few categories (because there are so bloody many) - just to underline how goddamn retarded this party can be. In order to not be too opinionated, I'll also include a decent policy in further spoilers, just to show the best and worst. Form your own judgement about the Green Party.

Animal Rights
Spoiler
The Green Party would ban all experimentation and research which harms animals, including harmful procedures used to obtain animal-derived materials. 'Harmful' is defined in this context as 'having the potential to cause pain, suffering, distress, lasting harm or death in animals, except where it is designed to benefit the individual animals concerned
Spoiler
The Green Party opposes all lethal or harmful uses and treatment of cetaceans (whales, dolphins, porpoises). In particular, whaling is a premeditated, deliberate and unnecessary cause of animal suffering.

Crime and Punishment
Spoiler
In a just society everyone should be protected from crimes motivated by hatred and discrimination based on ethnicity, colour, gender, trans, sexual orientation, religion, social origin, age, disability including learning difficulties or any other prejudice. A comprehensive strategy will be adopted to tackle, significantly reduce and ultimately end hate crime.
Spoiler
Wholly unacceptable levels of men, women and children are currently imprisoned at great cost to their future rehabilitation, as well as to their families, the taxpayer and society in general. The Green Party is therefore committed to significantly reducing the prison population.

The Economy
Spoiler
Interest rates on the lending of money should be capped at a reasonable rate linked to the Bank of England interest rate.

Large and medium sized companies will be required to pay a living wage.

In the interests of economic and financial stability, strict controls should be placed on lending by all banks, including lending to individuals.
Spoiler
A Citizen's Income sufficient to cover an individual's basic needs will be introduced, which will replace tax-free allowances and most social security benefits

A system of Land Value Taxation (LVT) will be introduced to replace the Council Tax and the National Non-Domestic Business Rates. LVT rates will be set at a local level, and will be based on the annual rental value of the land.

Science and technology
Spoiler
The Green Party accepts that certain uses of genetic engineering may be benign and may lead to enhanced quality of life, but believes that the release of GMOs (genetically modified organisms) into the environment potentially poses substantial risks to biodiversity, human health and animal welfare and that there is currently insufficient research to quantify risks.
Spoiler
Scientific research requires proper funding. We value basic research and will ensure it is properly funded. We believe that it is important to have a wide body of research that is not funded or controlled by large corporations.

We will increase public spending on R&D to at least 1% of GDP.

Energy
Spoiler
We will accelerate the deployment of both onshore and offshore wind power generation at rates sufficient to ensure the change to a stable electricity-based energy system of 87GW by 2030, but stabilising thereafter.

We will cancel construction of new nuclear stations and nuclear power will not be eligible for government subsidy; the Green Party opposes all nuclear power generation
Spoiler
We will support the rapid commercialisation of tidal stream and wave-powered generators to ensure they are able to contribute at least 5GW each by 2030, and a combined input of at least 20GW by 2050.

 Rapid deployment of solar photovoltaics will be fully supported, as a key source of decentralised generation, making full use of domestic, commercial and industrial roofspace and limited deployment of ‘solar farms’.

That's all I can be arsed to do at the minute.

11888
Serious / Re: A story you won't hear from Sharpton and the race-baiters
« on: October 17, 2014, 12:15:55 PM »
>Meta
>Not being a butthurt, opinion pushing, narcissist damage-control fracktard
I'll gladly accept opinion pushing since that's sort of the point of a board centered around political discussion.

As for damage control? No. I have no recollection of ever engaging in damage control.

I'll leave butthurt, narcissist and fracktard up to the good judgement of the other users.

11890
Serious / Re: A story you won't hear from Sharpton and the race-baiters
« on: October 17, 2014, 12:11:41 PM »
>RC
>Not being a shit-tier troll
>Kinder
>Not being a damage-controlling racist

11891
Serious / Re: A story you won't hear from Sharpton and the race-baiters
« on: October 17, 2014, 12:07:28 PM »
Yet if it was a white guy that killed two blacks, people will be throwing shit
I'm not disputing that.

I'm saying you're just as racist as the people who throw their shit.

11892
So does that mean Democrats created the recession since they had majority hold of Congress?
No. The Federal Reserve created the Recession.

11893
Serious / Re: A story you won't hear from Sharpton and the race-baiters
« on: October 17, 2014, 12:00:37 PM »
No, you're just as racist as they are by making this about race.

This is to do with the mental stability of the offender (who is likely antisocial in some considerable respect), not his race.

11894
Serious / Re: Republicans are better at funding science
« on: October 17, 2014, 11:58:45 AM »
Considering they support the green party over the libertarian party...
I don't know what the USGP is like, but the one over here is a fuc­king joke.

11895
From the Washington Post.
Spoiler
The White House hailed a return to "fiscal normalcy" Wednesday, reporting that the  federal budget deficit shrank to $483 billion last year, the lowest level as a share of the economy since 2007, before the Great Recession.

Driven by higher tax revenues, the shortfall for the fiscal year that ended in September was sharply lower than the $680 billion tallied in fiscal 2013 and about a third the size of the record $1.4 trillion deficit hit in 2009, the year President Obama took office. At roughly 2.8 percent of the overall economy, last year's deficit also achieves a White House goal for deficit reduction two years earlier than expected.   

In a briefing for reporters, Treasury Secretary Jack Lew and White House budget director Shaun Donovan touted the year-end numbers, noting that the good news comes at a time when government spending has risen slightly and Washington has abandoned "harmful excessive budget austerity," as Donovan put it.

While Obama remains committed to bringing down the nation's debt -- which remains dangerously elevated at $17.8 trillion -- Lew said, "What I don't think we have is an emergency right now ... The challenge we have is to sustain the economic engine."

Lew declined to answer questions about rising global financial fears and the tumbling U.S. stock market. A Treasury spokesman cut off questions about the broader economy, instructing reporters to stick to the happy fiscal news.

Lew and Donovan meanwhile argued that Obama's policies -- from the 2009 stimulus package to the Affordable Care Act to the continuation of the George W. Bush-era tax cuts for most Americans -- had helped the U.S. economy rebound from the darkest days of the recession, which in turn produced more tax revenue and smaller budget deficits.

“Not since World War II, more than 60 years ago, has there been faster and more sustained deficit reduction," Lew said. “The American economy today is better positioned than any other advanced economy in the world.”

According to the Treasury Department, government expenditures rose to $3.5 trillion in fiscal 2014, up about 1 percent from the previous year. Tax receipts, meanwhile, rose to more than $3 trillion, up 9 percent over fiscal 2013 thanks in part to falling unemployment and stronger economic growth.

The higher tax collections were also due, however, to the end of a payroll tax cut for most workers and the expiration of a variety of tax business breaks that many companies are pressing Congress to restore when lawmakers return to Washington after the Nov. 4 elections.

The fate of the so-called "tax extenders" is one of several fiscal issues yet to be resolved in a year-end "lame duck" session before a new Congress is seated in January. Political analysts say Republicans could win control of the Senate as well as the House in the elections, creating the possibility that budget fights between the Capitol and the White House could break out anew.

Washington spent much of Obama's first term embroiled in nasty budget fights that pushed the nation to the brink of default and shut down the government for 16 days last fall. They also ushered in sharp automatic budget cuts, known as the sequester, which are scheduled to hit federal agencies again in 2016.

Republicans have vowed to abide by sequester spending levels for domestic agencies if they win control of Congress, though many hope to find extra cash for the Pentagon. On Wednesday, Lew and Donovan cautioned against that approach, arguing that investing in domestic priorities such as education and infrastructure will bolster economic growth without increasing annual deficits.

"Six years after the Great Recession, thanks to the hard work of the American people and, in part to the policies the president pursued, our economy has bounced back more strongly than most others around the world," Donovan said. "We cannot afford a return to manufactured crises or austere anti-growth fiscal policy" when lawmakers come back in November.

Progress of a kind.

Shame it was done with higher taxes, though.

11896
Serious / Re: Republicans are better at funding science
« on: October 17, 2014, 11:47:55 AM »
Either way, only about 6% of all scientists identify under the republican party.
I'm not at all surprised. Although, I think liberals get a free pass sometimes for their own failing when it comes to science and conservatives get a tougher time than they should.

I'd be interested to know how many identify as socially liberal and fiscally conservative.

11897
Serious / Re: Republicans are better at funding science
« on: October 17, 2014, 11:24:34 AM »
Anyway, if it is true, it's most likely due to how large corporations (generally headed by fiscal conservatives) have to fund science teams in order to stay competitive.
That's pretty much Tyson's rationale.

11898
Serious / Re: Republicans are better at funding science
« on: October 16, 2014, 06:11:33 PM »
I'm curious if anything about this has changed since 2009...

Here's a nice infographic:
Spoiler

11899
Serious / Republicans are better at funding science
« on: October 16, 2014, 05:20:10 PM »
YouTube


I'm wearing my skepticals.

11900
Well she's right, you've seen to become quite the islamophobe Meta.
Criticising Islam =/= bigotry.

I have no problem with Muslims as people.

11901
Ignorance, not knowing how or what to think, not learning or being taught how to, is basic in Humans when confronted with a new or complex situation. I really do not see how you got the idea that religious beliefs cause this. Maybe I'm misunderstanding.
I'm not saying religious belief is, in some way, the psychological cause of ignorance. I'm saying dogmatism, and by extension religion, causes the extension and propagates such behaviour. I'm not claiming ignorance is a specifically religious phenomenon.


11902
Do you mean a person's Religious/Spiritual belief being the biggest cause of their action? While it is indeed a factor that can have the biggest sway in how someone acts, I don't see how one draws the conclusion that 'Islam'(in this case) is inherently bad,
All religions are inherently "bad", by my own conclusion. They vary wildly on this spectrum, it's just that Islam has the unfortunate situation of being at the end.

Quote
because a small group of those Muslims utilize that belief in a way that causes harm to others.

Again, it really isn't a small group. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Jihadists, Islamists and Conservative Muslims made up over half of the Muslim population. As I already noted to Icy, over half of British Muslims are perfectly happy with the suppression of free speech to protect their religious sensibilities. Just take a minute to consider what an intellectual offensive idea that is to liberalism.

Quote
Likely the reason that group acts that way is because they are pressured by the current, and long history of conflict in the region, they are not well educated, and are swayed easily because their lack of education makes it easier for them to not think critically about what they're told.
I don't disagree, the point is that religion is the thing which produces this inability - or unwillingness - to think critically in the first place. I'm not saying we're born as logical positivists, but the presence of faith or any sort can cloud a person's judgement regardless of their "education".

If you want me to illustrate this point, just consider the difference between Jainism and Islam. If you need any convincing at all that doctrine is a massive motivator of behaviour - when other variables are controlled for - just consider for a minute the likelihood of violence among Jains and Muslims respectively, and you should reach the conclusion that the results will differ wildly.

If you want me to concede anything, then I'll say the problem isn't just religion. Not even by a long shot. It's dogma and groupish mentality. It's just exceedingly unfortunate that religious perpetuate both of these things to a considerable degree, and some do it better than others.

11903
I'm not saying criticizing the Islamic teachings and cultures is bad - but outright saying it is a religion that is fundamentally broken and only works to breed extremists is no better.
This is where we disagree, it would seem.

All religions, in my eyes, are fundamentally broken. Metaphysically, epistemologically and ethically. I'm not saying Islam only breeds extremism; you bring up the Islamic cultures of old, notable for the invention of algebra and other great feats of intelligence. However, we don't have a conception of "Islamic mathematics" because that domain isn't a religious one. In the same way, metaphysics nor ethics should be. This is why religions, to me, are broken. Not only are they intellectually and morally bankrupt, they have next to zero effective utility.

Now, as for the breeding of extremism? Like I've said, the extent to which Christians and Jews - most notably the latter - are acceptable in Civil Society is the extent to which they aren't really religious, without trying to sound conceited. Has this come from theological enlightenment, or religious nuance? No, it's come from the sheer force of secularism, humanism and modernity. Islam is breeding extremism because it is, essentially, the last bastion of Fideism against these moderating forces.

I'm rushing a bit, but I hope that clears it up.

11904
I want to make it clear I'm not at all minimising the extra-religious social, economic and political issues with the regions you mentioned. However, this isn't to excuse the actions of Muslims either in this region or not.

The democratically-elected government of Gaza is explicitly genocidal. The Ayatollah of Iran issued a 10-year fatwa for the writing of a novel. I've already linked you to the British Muslims in the case of the Danish cartoonist, and even in Denmark there was rioting and the smashing of embassies. The man who published those cartoons has a panic room and has even suffered an attempt on his life.

This absolutely cannot be brushed off as a few extremists. Islam breeds violence; it perpetuates an "us vs. them" mentality which becomes necessarily true when one side has got this in their psyche. The extent to which Christians and Jews are acceptable in Civil Society is, really, the extent to which they aren't religious.

If Jews followed the teachings of Deuteronomy and Leviticus, we'd condemn them regardless of where they were. When Mitt Romney goes against Mormonism by proclaiming the Constitution to have primacy, we have to realise the implications of this. When the Leninists murdered tens of millions of people in Russia, we condemned them and quite rightly so despite the fact that Russia was rife with poverty.

You can try to split the difference and point out the Soviets suffered from violent institutions rather than a generally violent population, but Islam also has exceedingly violent institutions. To try and claim that anything besides doctrine is what caused the Taliban to shoot Malala Yousafzai in the face, or causes Hamas to launch rockets from besides schools and hospitals, is nothing but an intellectual joke.

Spoiler
I also have this article from Foreign Affairs in my bookmarks which corroborates the Telegraph story. I believe it links a number of academics.

11905
Are you really implying it is wrong to be of the belief that the terrorists/extremists have other motives for their actions than their interpretation of the Qur'an?
Not at all; I'm a big admirer of Durkheim when it comes to sociology.

To brush their doctrine off as inconsequential, however, as Jonathan Haidt can sometimes do, is nothing short of stupidity. Are you honestly going to tell me that a person's belief is not the biggest proximate cause of their action?

11906
You also have to take into account that social and economic problems in countries that are predominately Islamic are vastly worse than the predominately Christian western world. These problems also contribute to the rise of the extremists in said religion - not simply a problematic text.
And are we to ignore that the adoption of such barbaric ideas perpetuates this poverty? There are two options when it comes to human interaction: discussion or violence. Faith cuts the conversation short.

I'm not going to pretend that the poverty of the region isn't a big issue, but when Muslims in Britain believe such things (and even go to fight for them) and when the relationship between poverty and extremism is questionable in countries like Pakistan I'm not going to get dewy-eyed because I might run the risk of hurting some people's feelings.

11907
I refuse to see the common sense of opposing a religion for the few extremists who take the religious text word for word. It would be like hating all of Christianity for the WBC.
Well I think that criticism relies on the assumption that somebody opposing Islam doesn't also oppose Christianity - which I, personally, do. To claim that Christianity, however, presents as similar a threat to liberal society as Islam does is just farce.

It's hardly a "few", either. 78pc of British Muslims thought the Danish cartoonist should've been prosecuted, and that only drops by 10pc on the question of whether people who insult Islam in general should be prosecuted.

This is in the U.K. . .

11908
The Flood / Your honest opinion of me
« on: October 16, 2014, 01:52:19 PM »
I'm more important than Rocketman, so if he gets one I do too.

11909
The edge.
I know you're kidding, but I genuinely think it'd be edgier to be an apologist for Islam.

11910
I don't see why one would blame the religion itself for these problems.
You're getting dangerously close to implying that the reason these "radicals" behave the way they do isn't because of their faith.

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