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Messages - ΚΑΤΑΝΑΛΩΤΗΣ
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301
« on: November 15, 2016, 12:31:20 AM »
Anyways, I don't think Trump planned on winning. I think he was running to prove a point on how fractured the Republican party was. He's been quoted saying how he's having trouble accepting that he won.
Doubt it. The dude's a businessman, he doesn't give a shit about public service. I bet he ran simply because his friends in Moscow told him to. They're just using him to incite divisions within our country and to paint a negative image of American democracy and leadership to the world as a whole. I don't think he ever expected to win either, I imagine he only ran so as to possibly expand his real estate name into Russia.
Russia helped. No question there. Still, There's nothing showing he really intended to win.
Oh, I know and I completely agree he never intended for this to come as far as it did. He'll probably follow Dumbya's lead by stepping aside to let Pence take the reigns while appearing on certain occasions for pr purposes so that he can continue to run his private ventures. I still find it utterly disgusting that American voters are willing to stick it to "the establishment" by putting a Kremlin stooge in the white house.
What the hell is McCarthy I mean MSNBC doing on this forum?
302
« on: November 14, 2016, 11:15:12 PM »
how do I add more than 3 colors or change up the shapes or add shapes or whatever
303
« on: November 14, 2016, 07:26:23 PM »
I'd love to know who this "Credible inside source" is.
304
« on: November 14, 2016, 12:28:12 PM »
I always used to doubt the "liberal MSM" meme until recently. One of the few perks of this election, for me, is the media being exposed and having to reflect on its behavior. They decided Hillary would be our next President, that Trump didn't have a chance in hell of winning. They ran a rigorous campaign against the guy, with little regard for whether the Claim of the Week™ was even an honest one, or just grasping for straws, while underreporting issues damaging to Hillary such as her leaked emails.
I'm actually currently writing an argumentative essay about this for my College Writing course. I was worried I'd have trouble coming up with enough content from popular sources, but the media meltdown after the election, and the subsequent finger-pointing and self-reflection among the media community has given me a ton of content to make use of. The point I intend to make is that the for-profit mass media in this country has absolutely failed to keep the public well-informed in a nonpartisan manner. The fact that the media itself has started to agree with that sentiment is very encouraging. My original plan was to avoid any mention of the election at all, but now I feel like it's too relevant to the discussion to leave out.
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« on: November 14, 2016, 12:23:19 PM »
306
« on: November 13, 2016, 01:22:03 PM »
307
« on: November 12, 2016, 10:34:31 PM »
http://sep7agon.net/serious/don't-normalize-trump-simply-because-he-won/
(This is the first of many ways that Trump's supporters will attempt to silence and demonize their opposition over the next four years.)
Nobody is trying to silence the opposition. People like Icy, President Obama and most of the political class have been totally reasonable. They've been critical of Trump from the go, but are willing to accept the loss and their position, and act like rational human beings for the next four years.
The fact of the matter is that our entire political structure (one I don't even like that much) relies entirely on the general understanding that its methods of election, appointment and regulation are legitimate. When the losing side begins to deny the legitimacy of those things just because it doesn't like the results, that political structure is undermined.
Donald Trump is not going to kill you, send you away or hurt you. He is not going to restrict your political freedoms. You have been indoctrinated by two years of propaganda and hyperbolic rhetoric into thinking that the US has been taken over by a neo-Nazi in some kind of illegal coup. The simple truth of the matter is that Donald Trump, as well as his supporters, genuinely wants to Make America Great Again. Whether or not his plans for doing this are going to work is a matter very much up for debate, but it is quite apparent (to those willing to unplug their ears and take their hands away from their eyes) that the man really does mean well for this country and its inhabitants.
Stop acting like a child. Obama is not a Muslim communist who wants Islam to take over the United States. Donald Trump is not a fascist who wants to exterminate nonwhites and liberals.
WOW. LOL.
Orange Hitler campaigned sixteen months on a platform that flatly advocated the dismissal of most constitutional rights for a safer society.
You mean exactly what Clinton's been doing? Don't forget what happened under the Obama administration with her as secretary of defense, or her outright rejection of the second amendment. I'm sooner going to take Trump at face value than believe some deranged Internet poster (who perhaps a year or two ago was adamantly against government overreach) who habitually puts words in Trump's mouth. I'm going to expect the worst and hope for the best. I'm still opposed to government overreach. The difference is that a year ago I considered the existence of a government to be overreach. I've calmed down quite a bit in that respect. If I'm wrong about him, I'll be the first to admit it, you have my word. But as of right now, I have zero reassurances from the president-elect himself that he isn't going to do this stuff.
Except, you know, every single comment he has made since winning.
308
« on: November 12, 2016, 10:24:24 PM »
It hasn't even been a week. I think people are allowed a bit of time to come to grips with it. It happens every election.
I don't recall anything nearly this childish happening after Bush 2 or Obama.
Bush and Obama also didn't agree with a proposal to make Muslim Americans wear special identification.
That sounds familiar
Oh, so I'm being baited. Okay.
309
« on: November 12, 2016, 10:23:20 PM »
http://sep7agon.net/serious/don't-normalize-trump-simply-because-he-won/
(This is the first of many ways that Trump's supporters will attempt to silence and demonize their opposition over the next four years.)
Nobody is trying to silence the opposition. People like Icy, President Obama and most of the political class have been totally reasonable. They've been critical of Trump from the go, but are willing to accept the loss and their position, and act like rational human beings for the next four years. The fact of the matter is that our entire political structure (one I don't even like that much) relies entirely on the general understanding that its methods of election, appointment and regulation are legitimate. When the losing side begins to deny the legitimacy of those things just because it doesn't like the results, that political structure is undermined. Donald Trump is not going to kill you, send you away or hurt you. He is not going to restrict your political freedoms. You have been indoctrinated by two years of propaganda and hyperbolic rhetoric into thinking that the US has been taken over by a neo-Nazi in some kind of illegal coup. The simple truth of the matter is that Donald Trump, as well as his supporters, genuinely wants to Make America Great Again. Whether or not his plans for doing this are going to work is a matter very much up for debate, but it is quite apparent (to those willing to unplug their ears and take their hands away from their eyes) that the man really does mean well for this country and its inhabitants. Stop acting like a child. Obama is not a Muslim communist who wants Islam to take over the United States. Donald Trump is not a fascist who wants to exterminate nonwhites and liberals.
310
« on: November 12, 2016, 10:09:49 PM »
It hasn't even been a week. I think people are allowed a bit of time to come to grips with it. It happens every election.
I don't recall anything nearly this childish happening after Bush 2 or Obama.
311
« on: November 12, 2016, 09:44:34 PM »
Kill yourself or leave the country. Whatever you do, fuck off. I'm not baiting or trolling when I say that. If you are one of the hundreds of people who are- having lost the race they once defended as totally fair and balanced- not willing to at least hear the opposition out, you are the problem.
A republic is a political system which requires cooperation and compromise in order to function. This is especially true of republics that integrate the democratic process as much as ours does. These things cannot exist with you or people like yourself in it. People like you destroy the usefulness of the electoral system. Why even hold an election if the losing faction is going to riot, attack people, spread lies and try to rewrite the rules of the game?
It is you people, not Donald Trump, who threaten American freedom and democracy.
So, again. If you're one of these people, kill yourself or get out. You have no place here.
312
« on: November 12, 2016, 09:32:21 PM »
313
« on: November 11, 2016, 09:48:06 PM »
. The most radical Presidential candidate in recent memory
There is nothing radical about Donald Trump. He's the most centrist figure in American politics since Bill Clinton was in power. He just says mean things about people he dislikes.
314
« on: November 11, 2016, 09:45:48 PM »
Nah but it was totally cool when the corrupt people who like abortion and gay marriage had that power!
Fucking ridiculous overreaction coming out of the butthurt battalion.
315
« on: November 11, 2016, 01:32:07 PM »
Don't tread on me faggot
316
« on: November 11, 2016, 01:31:30 PM »
317
« on: November 11, 2016, 02:45:01 AM »
318
« on: November 11, 2016, 01:30:32 AM »
Once again, this is alleged. The only reason we have to believe that it was the Russians and not whoever the fuck else it could have been is that Clinton said so, and the Russians didn't like Clinton. For all we know they could have been internal. I know that it's alleged, and there's zero solid evidence available to the public about it.
What I find preposterous here is that even if the Russian's email meddling was true, you'd actually support Russia doing that, by your own admission.
Further, if you see that as interfering with or obstructing our democracy, you need a reality check. Exposing this kind of information is a boon to democracy. If you had information suggesting that a potential British PM was offering government offices to donors, making millions off of favors done for big businesses, and rigging their party's internal elections, wouldn't you try to inform the British people? I don't even believe in democracy as the ideal political system but come on, how on earth is it better to leave the demos uninformed about extremely important matters like this?
I agree. WikiLeaks did the right thing by revealing these emails, regardless of who provided them. I never meant to sound like I was downplaying WikiLeaks, if that's how I came across.
I know you're not downplaying Wikileaks, but I really don't see how you can jump from supporting Wikileaks, which is not an American organization (led by an Australian, based mostly in Sweden I believe), to condemning Russia for supplying Wikileaks with information. This isn't like Saudis paying our politicians for favorable treatment in policy, this is the publication of information relevant and important to voters.
319
« on: November 11, 2016, 01:10:38 AM »
Going back on topic, you cheered for a foreign power meddling in our sovereign country's democratic election, regardless of whether or not they actually did. I don't see how any of this digression disputes that fact.
The fact that I never did what you're saying I did, and the post you linked as evidence did not say what you're saying I've said disputes that "fact". I've made myself clear already.
This is not """""nuance"""""
Unless you want to count them ALLEGEDLY aiding Wikileaks in exposing institutional corruption, which would have been a goddamn service to the people of this country.
I support Trump because I do not want foreign entities affecting our politics.
This is a contradiction.
Once again, this is alleged. The only reason we have to believe that it was the Russians and not whoever the fuck else it could have been is that Clinton said so, and the Russians didn't like Clinton. For all we know they could have been internal. Further, if you see that as interfering with or obstructing our democracy, you need a reality check. Exposing this kind of information is a boon to democracy. If you had information suggesting that a potential British PM was offering government offices to donors, making millions off of favors done for big businesses, and rigging their party's internal elections, wouldn't you try to inform the British people? I don't even believe in democracy as the ideal political system but come on, how on earth is it better to leave the demos uninformed about extremely important matters like this?
320
« on: November 11, 2016, 12:53:25 AM »
Going back on topic, you cheered for a foreign power meddling in our sovereign country's democratic election, regardless of whether or not they actually did. I don't see how any of this digression disputes that fact.
The fact that I never did what you're saying I did, and the post you linked as evidence did not say what you're saying I've said disputes that "fact". I've made myself clear already.
321
« on: November 11, 2016, 12:51:32 AM »
 >Mexican Senator's Solution To Crime: Arm Citizens >A Mexican senator has a radical and controversial plan to combat rising violence in his country: Let citizens legally arm themselves in their cars and businesses. >The lawmaker seeks to seize on Mexicans' anger and frustration at the dismal state of justice in a country where only one percent of crimes are punished, according to an impunity study by University of the Americas Puebla. >Mexico is "a failed state in terms of security. We aren't asking (the authorities) to defend us. We are telling them, 'Let us defend ourselves,'" Preciado told AFP in an interview in the Senate. >Banning people from defending themselves with guns is "the equivalent of prohibiting the use of fire because it burns or the use of water because it drowns," he said. http://www.ndtv.com/world-news/mexican-senators-solution-to-crime-arm-citizens-1620434
322
« on: November 11, 2016, 12:01:21 AM »
I promoted the concept of Donald Trump being in contact with the Russians. Well yes. Their government can now admit they were in contact with the Trump campaign.
And thank God for that.
I support Trump because I do not want foreign entities affecting our politics.
I'm going to stop pretending you have any intellectual credibility, because you don't.
In what way do you think the Russian government has affected our politics aside from A) existing, and B) talking to a candidate? Communicating with a potential President's advisers is not interference. Stop deluding yourself, the reds haven't taken over.
You're putting words in my mouth.
Read my posts again, because I never made the assertion you think I did. Russia attempted to sway our politics, and you welcomed that.
In what way did Russia attempt to sway our politics short of Putin saying "I like this guy" and talking to a candidate who was already promoting a path of isolationism? There is no evidence to suggest that Trump's position on Russia came from anyone but himself, nor was there anything for him to reasonably gain from them for saying what he said. Trump and Putin are only friends as far as their interests align- and they do align quite a bit, which is good for us as well as for them. I have made it very clear that I consider communicating with Russian officials to be different and distinct from taking advice, guidance, money, or orders from them. Trump's statements and proposed policies regarding foreign lobbies in our government are not in Russia's interest; they are in no interest but that of the American people. You may continue accusing me of intellectual contradiction all you want, but I will maintain in response that you are incapable of understanding nuance. WikiLeaks, bless its soul, confirmed mostly what we already knew or guessed about Hillary--that she's an opaque corporatist shill who probably didn't actually believe half the things she campaigned on. Confirmed. Confirming these things is very important, yes. After seeing how the election ultimately played out, it's difficult to believe that the leaks, apparently supplied by Russia, swayed the election in any significant way. Hillary was always going to lose.
Allegedly supplied by Russia. They could have come from anywhere- supposedly at least 5 foreign intelligence services accessed her private server. And if you don't think the constant stream of leaks and the resulting FBI investigations hurt Clinton, you are deluding yourself. Clinton herself is rumored to have blamed her loss in part on the leaks, as well as Obama for not stopping the FBI investigations sooner. Her apparent and confirmed corruption was a huge factor in undermining public opinion of her and alienating the more liberal elements within her own party.
323
« on: November 10, 2016, 11:36:44 PM »
Don't go on 4chan. That'll be the worst decision of your Internet life.
/tg/ and /his/ aren't so bad.
/his/ always seems pretty autistic whenever I glace its way.
take my opinion with a grain of salt.
I only went there once, and it was a thread mocking weaboos for thinking a Samurai would curbstomp a European Knight in a fight, so I immediately loved the board.
that's the historical academic equivalent of talking about why Justin Bieber "le totally sucks" ie not original, insightful or interesting.
324
« on: November 10, 2016, 11:28:18 PM »
What? I've been more than uplifted since the end of the election, even if I was hungover. I feel like I can focus again and have a general sense of assuredness with a dash of apprehension.
How do you people exist?
Quite a few of us deplorables felt marginalized and threatened by the rhetoric and ideas flying out of Clinton and her supporters. Tim Kaine openly cheered about the end of the white majority- in Spanish. If he was speaking about any other demographic he'd have been run out of the political scene and publicly humiliated. The fact that he was allowed to get away with that kind of talk should tell you what the powers that be think of our people. Having a national leader who isn't celebrating the marginalization of my people is pretty fucking relieving, considering what we could have had.
325
« on: November 10, 2016, 11:22:41 PM »
I promoted the concept of Donald Trump being in contact with the Russians. Well yes. Their government can now admit they were in contact with the Trump campaign.
And thank God for that.
I support Trump because I do not want foreign entities affecting our politics.
I'm going to stop pretending you have any intellectual credibility, because you don't.
In what way do you think the Russian government has affected our politics aside from A) existing, and B) talking to a candidate? Communicating with a potential President's advisers is not interference. Stop deluding yourself, the reds haven't taken over.
326
« on: November 10, 2016, 10:35:47 PM »
Whelp. The derogatory slurs began on campus today.
My sister's friend at Harvard is here illegally. She's been staying at a friend's house because one of the roommates turned on her.
We had a couple "Fuck Muslims", "Fuck Gays", "Go Trump" written on bathroom walls. Nothing to cause alarm, but still disheartening.
327
« on: November 10, 2016, 10:31:37 PM »
Well yes. Their government can now admit they were in contact with the Trump campaign.
And thank God for that.
Your reaction to this sounds nearly treasonous. A foreign power attempting to violate the sovereignty of this country is unacceptable. Shame on you for cheering it on.
Trump did not receive funding from the Russians (as opposed to Clinton, who took money from all sorts of foreign entities), and as far as we know did not cooperate with them in any way. Some of his campaign managers had some kind of contact with them. If he or the Russians had anything illicit going on, Russia would not have admitted to being in contact with him at all. Trump and the Russians had a common interest- keeping Hillary Clinton out of the White House, and discrediting the mass media entities demonizing both of them. Trump is also promoting a more isolationist, inwardly focused national direction, which the Russians are happy to see given how demonized they were by Obama, Clinton, and the American political mainstream. Their interests do not necessarily still converge, but this common interest has been the basis for a friendly relationship. The enemy of my enemy could well become my friend.
My reaction is no more treasonous than a Jew wanting the US to have good relations with Israel. Tens of millions of Russians are my coreligionists, and I do not want my country to be engaged in hostilities with them. Nothing good can come of the world's two biggest nuclear arsenals being pointed at each other with ill intent.
Since when have the left been the fear mongers and xenophobes? Liberal McCarthyism is a strange thing.
Nice backtracking. You literally just promoted the concept of a foreign entity affecting the outcome of a democratic election. Trump having an explicit connection to Russia is completely irrelevant to the conversation.
Do not put words in my mouth. I promoted the concept of Donald Trump being in contact with the Russians. The Russians did not actively interfere in this campaign, nor did they fund a candidate like, say, the Saudis did. Unless you want to count them ALLEGEDLY aiding Wikileaks in exposing institutional corruption, which would have been a goddamn service to the people of this country. I support Trump because I do not want foreign entities affecting our politics. You'll find, if you look at is first 100 days plan, that he does not want that either. He is planning to put in place policies that would limit the ability of foreign entities to interfere with our internal politics. Does that sound like something a Kremlin plant would do?
328
« on: November 10, 2016, 09:59:48 PM »
Well yes. Their government can now admit they were in contact with the Trump campaign.
And thank God for that.
Your reaction to this sounds nearly treasonous. A foreign power attempting to violate the sovereignty of this country is unacceptable. Shame on you for cheering it on.
Trump did not receive funding from the Russians (as opposed to Clinton, who took money from all sorts of foreign entities), and as far as we know did not cooperate with them in any way. Some of his campaign managers had some kind of contact with them. If he or the Russians had anything illicit going on, Russia would not have admitted to being in contact with him at all. Trump and the Russians had a common interest- keeping Hillary Clinton out of the White House, and discrediting the mass media entities demonizing both of them. Trump is also promoting a more isolationist, inwardly focused national direction, which the Russians are happy to see given how demonized they were by Obama, Clinton, and the American political mainstream. Their interests do not necessarily still converge, but this common interest has been the basis for a friendly relationship. The enemy of my enemy could well become my friend. My reaction is no more treasonous than a Jew wanting the US to have good relations with Israel. Tens of millions of Russians are my coreligionists, and I do not want my country to be engaged in hostilities with them. Nothing good can come of the world's two biggest nuclear arsenals being pointed at each other with ill intent. Since when have the left been the fear mongers and xenophobes? Liberal McCarthyism is a strange thing.
329
« on: November 10, 2016, 05:59:34 PM »
Well yes. Their government can now admit they were in contact with the Trump campaign.
And thank God for that.
Cooling down tensions with Russia was a wise move on Trump's part. Simply by getting elected, Donald Trump has accomplished more for our relationship with Russia (and by extension the security of Europe) than any President since the Cold War. The Russians under Putin are paranoid as fuck and convinced that NATO and the EU are trying to destroy their sovereignty and independence, and that the Chinese will join in soon. Every aggressive move they make is intended to ensure Russia's position is defensible. Having a President who isn't trying to revive the Red Scare is a very important thing for us and them.
330
« on: November 10, 2016, 05:53:24 PM »
There's a lesson about hubris here, but it seems like a lot of people are too busy blaming others to learn it.
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