In Fallout 1 and 2, magic was everywhere.

Ha.

What kinds of mods can the console version have?

Like character models too?

I think anything as long as it isn't child killing/ nudity/ offensive. They've said you can break your game so there won't be any limits in that regard it sounds like.

Take away VATS

Completely unrelated.

Take away perks

>implying every perk is MUHGIC

Take away fast travel

A matter of convenience, and it's not like time doesn't pass during it as if the player has travelled that distance.

Take away percentage-based speech checks

Please do, bring back New Vegas's system.

VATS is magic. How is that unrelated? I don't see people up in arms bitching about that.

90% of perks are magic. "No radiation damage in water", "your skin just magically gets tougher lol", "you're stronger but only if you happen to be holding a weapon", etc

Fast travel is still an immersion breaking gameplay element, that we forgive because of, you know, gameplay.

Glad to know you at least stand by your paradigm on that last one, though.

Quote from: BaconShelf on May 12, 2016, 03:44:40 PM

Quote from: SecondClass on May 12, 2016, 03:40:07 PM

Quote from: BaconShelf on May 12, 2016, 03:36:17 PM

The legendary system removes the fun/ uniqueness of named weapons (Like A3-21's rifle in Fallout 3) because you get them all the time.

Plus, legendaty enemies aren't fun to fight. Their regenerating health gets old quick.

They should have just done separate types of ammo to give explosive/ incendiary/ AP/ hollow point bullets rather than make it luck based.

Ammo types aren't a catch all. You can't do a two shot ammo type, an anti-ghoul ammo type, etc. That would be even worse, to imply a certain type of ammunition in the Fallout world knows whether it's hitting a ghoul or not.

But yeah, I do wish there were more true unique weapons, though, like The Deliverer, but that's a completely different thing. Legendary effects and true unique weapons could easily coexist if Bethesda put forward the effort to add them in.

Yeah but the more damage against ghouls thing is dumb

Aside from naming a ghoul slaying .44 the Rick Grimes and a robot slaying plasma rifle the John Connor, I always prefer weapons that have no legendary effect or an incendiary ammo or something else conventional. If all the legendary effects made sense in the game universe, I'd be fine with it but I don't see how a gun fires two bullets or does more damage against mutants is particularly interesting. like, the Spray N'Pray is cool, but it loses its muster when you realise you could get the exact same thing from farming enemies for a while. And how does a radroach carrying a gauss rifle make sense? A deathclaw carrying armour can be justified, but some of the drops are just ridiculous.

Also, they can't be scrapped reeeeeeeee

I get that you personally don't like it, that's fine. But if you're criticizing the lack of sense it makes in the game's universe, you have to criticize every gameplay element that doesn't make sense in the game's universe. Which there are tons of.

If it helps, I don't particulary enjoy [human] enemies that can take multiple shotgun shells at CQC either, and damage rebalance will be the first mod I install.

Similarly, I don't take some of the crazier perks that do stupid effects precisely because it kills the immersion factor (I mean stuff like enemies exploding into money).

There's a certain limit to which I have willing suspension of disbeliedlf - something like speech checks or levels, sure, because it fits. A bloatfly carrying round a minigun that somehow has the ability to do more damage to mirelurks does not.

To put it in another context, I can suspend disbelief in Halo when you have spacecraft fighting in close quarters and sending relatavistic projectiles around within the gravity well of a planet. But when you suddenly have a human tech jump in 5 years that outclasses anything the aliens did in 3,000, I'm going to call bullshit.

There's a certain threshold where things stop being a necessary part of the game, and cross into the realm of "How does that make sense?". As someone who loves playing Fallout on survival/ hardcore because ut's more immersive, I don't find legendary to be particularly engaging or even fun (The double health thing).

If the legendary system was limited to enemies that wpuld actually be legendary in the Commonwealth (IE Kellogg, raider bosses and gunner officers etc), it could make sense and I could at least accept that within the game world. But I don't understand what makes a dog legendary, or what a bloatfly has done to make it worthy of mass recognition.

Quote from: Fedorekd on May 12, 2016, 03:50:53 PM

Quote from: SecondClass on May 12, 2016, 03:47:05 PM

Quote from: Fedorekd on May 12, 2016, 03:45:54 PM

Quote from: SecondClass on May 12, 2016, 03:43:17 PM

In Fallout 1 and 2, magic was everywhere.

Ha.

Perks are magic

knowing you're in a video game is magic

being able to avoid fights because you put invisible points into an invisible skill is magic

Now you're nitpicking.

YOU are the one nitpicking. If you hate the legendary effects because it's a gameplay element that doesn't make sense in the game's universe, then that has to apply to the numerous, numerous gameplay elements that commit the exact same crime.

It's almost as if people are posturing their dislike for a system (which is fine, just say you dislike it) as some immersion breaking crime against the lore.

I don't get your weird infatuation with the Legendary system or why you feel the need to so zealously defend it.

And I did what you said at first by simply stating that I didn't like it, it's YOU that prompted this discussion by getting argumentative.

Yeah, sure, Legendary is a gameplay element. But it's a gameplay element I dislike and I don't think fits with Fallout's style at all. I've made that abundantly clear.

Quote from: BaconShelf on May 12, 2016, 03:59:44 PM

Quote from: SecondClass on May 12, 2016, 03:49:23 PM

Quote from: BaconShelf on May 12, 2016, 03:44:40 PM

Quote from: SecondClass on May 12, 2016, 03:40:07 PM

Quote from: BaconShelf on May 12, 2016, 03:36:17 PM

The legendary system removes the fun/ uniqueness of named weapons (Like A3-21's rifle in Fallout 3) because you get them all the time.

Plus, legendaty enemies aren't fun to fight. Their regenerating health gets old quick.

They should have just done separate types of ammo to give explosive/ incendiary/ AP/ hollow point bullets rather than make it luck based.

Ammo types aren't a catch all. You can't do a two shot ammo type, an anti-ghoul ammo type, etc. That would be even worse, to imply a certain type of ammunition in the Fallout world knows whether it's hitting a ghoul or not.

But yeah, I do wish there were more true unique weapons, though, like The Deliverer, but that's a completely different thing. Legendary effects and true unique weapons could easily coexist if Bethesda put forward the effort to add them in.

Yeah but the more damage against ghouls thing is dumb

Aside from naming a ghoul slaying .44 the Rick Grimes and a robot slaying plasma rifle the John Connor, I always prefer weapons that have no legendary effect or an incendiary ammo or something else conventional. If all the legendary effects made sense in the game universe, I'd be fine with it but I don't see how a gun fires two bullets or does more damage against mutants is particularly interesting. like, the Spray N'Pray is cool, but it loses its muster when you realise you could get the exact same thing from farming enemies for a while. And how does a radroach carrying a gauss rifle make sense? A deathclaw carrying armour can be justified, but some of the drops are just ridiculous.

Also, they can't be scrapped reeeeeeeee

I get that you personally don't like it, that's fine. But if you're criticizing the lack of sense it makes in the game's universe, you have to criticize every gameplay element that doesn't make sense in the game's universe. Which there are tons of.

If it helps, I don't particulary enjoy [human] enemies that can take multiple shotgun shells at CQC either, and damage rebalance will be the first mod I install.

Similarly, I don't take some of the crazier perks that do stupid effects precisely because it kills the immersion factor (I mean stuff like enemies exploding into money).

There's a certain limit to which I have willing suspension of disbeliedlf - something like speech checks or levels, sure, because it fits. A bloatfly carrying round a minigun that somehow has the ability to do more damage to mirelurks does not.

To put it in another context, I can suspend disbelief in Halo when you have spacecraft fighting in close quarters and sending relatavistic projectiles around within the gravity well of a planet. But when you suddenly have a human tech jump in 5 years that outclasses anything the aliens did in 3,000, I'm going to call bullshit.

There's a certain threshold where things stop being a necessary part of the game, and cross into the realm of "How does that make sense?". As someone who loves playing Fallout on survival/ hardcore because ut's more immersive, I don't find legendary to be particularly engaging or even fun (The double health thing).

If the legendary system was limited to enemies that wpuld actually be legendary in the Commonwealth (IE Kellogg, raider bosses and gunner officers etc), it could make sense and I could at least accept that within the game world. But I don't understand what makes a dog legendary, or what a bloatfly has done to make it worthy of mass recognition.

I absolutely agree that legendary enemies need to be removed or retooled, but the effects themselves are just a fun gameplay element to give guns more customization. I do wish there were some true unique guns, though, like Lincoln's Repeater in 3 or Deliverer. Those would sync perfectly with craftable legendary effects.

Quote from: Fedorekd on May 12, 2016, 03:59:46 PM

Quote from: SecondClass on May 12, 2016, 03:53:15 PM

VATS is magic. How is that unrelated? I don't see people up in arms bitching about that.

90% of perks are magic. "No radiation damage in water", "your skin just magically gets tougher lol", "you're stronger but only if you happen to be holding a weapon", etc

Fast travel is still an immersion breaking gameplay element, that we forgive because of, you know, gameplay.

Glad to know you at least stand by your paradigm on that last one, though.

The Pip-Boy doesn't actually freeze/slow down time in-universe. It's more you're seeing things from the perspective of the Pip-Boy which can analyse these things.

There are plenty of perks I disagree with, if we're talking Fallout 4 perks then.

Fast travel is a completely different story to weapon effects. It's not like the character is literally teleporting in-universe. The effects of the travel are still there, especially if you're playing NV's hardcore mode.

But it does freeze/slow time. In-universe, though, it doesn't. Just like how in-universe, legendary effects don't even exist.

I'm talking about perks from Fallout 1 to Fallout 4. In any given Fallout game, 90% of the perks make no sense lorewise and couldn't happen in-universe. Like toughness and weapon handling, as I mentioned above.

In-universe, you're walking there. Gameplay wise, you're not. It's gameplay and story segreation.

And Fast Travel, perks and VATS examples of gameplay-story segregation I can accept. Legendary effects on the other hand just feel way too arcadey for me.

Quote from: Fedorekd on May 12, 2016, 04:03:04 PM

Quote from: SecondClass on May 12, 2016, 03:55:17 PM

Quote from: Fedorekd on May 12, 2016, 03:50:53 PM

Quote from: SecondClass on May 12, 2016, 03:47:05 PM

Quote from: Fedorekd on May 12, 2016, 03:45:54 PM

Quote from: SecondClass on May 12, 2016, 03:43:17 PM

In Fallout 1 and 2, magic was everywhere.

Ha.

Perks are magic

knowing you're in a video game is magic

being able to avoid fights because you put invisible points into an invisible skill is magic

Now you're nitpicking.

YOU are the one nitpicking. If you hate the legendary effects because it's a gameplay element that doesn't make sense in the game's universe, then that has to apply to the numerous, numerous gameplay elements that commit the exact same crime.

It's almost as if people are posturing their dislike for a system (which is fine, just say you dislike it) as some immersion breaking crime against the lore.

I don't get your weird infatuation with the Legendary system or why you feel the need to so zealously defend it.

And I did what you said at first by simply stating that I didn't like it, it's YOU that prompted this discussion by getting argumentative.

Yeah, sure, Legendary is a gameplay element. But it's a gameplay element I dislike and I don't think fits with Fallout's style at all. I've made that abundantly clear.

Because I see this shit all the time. The legendary effects is the #1 criticism with Fallout 4, even above things the game actually did wrong. But you don't see the people bitching about how unrealistic the legendary system is get all pissy about the dozens of accepted unrealistic gameplay elements every single Fallout has.

People take issue with Legendary effects because it's significantly more arcadey than any of the other mechanics.

VATS is literally as arcadey as it gets. Looking forward to a mod that disables it out of combat.

Aiming at specific body parts is a little different to guns that can do elemental damage.

What does Jet do? I never use drugs in Fallout games.

There aren't many mods consoles can handle. Although small mods, like one that adds or retextures an armor/weapon will most likely work, larger ones such as script extenders, overhauls, and large quest mods will not work well if at all. Also, mods that have to be manually installed, such as nearly every ENB will not be available.

They may not work well bht they'll still be allowed. They're only filtering based on copyright and obscenity issues, andyou will be allowed to break the game.

Quote from: BaconShelf on May 14, 2016, 03:31:15 AM

Quote from: Stroud on May 13, 2016, 12:13:04 AM

There aren't many mods consoles can handle. Although small mods, like one that adds or retextures an armor/weapon will most likely work, larger ones such as script extenders, overhauls, and large quest mods will not work well if at all. Also, mods that have to be manually installed, such as nearly every ENB will not be available.

They may not work well bht they'll still be allowed. They're only filtering based on copyright and obscenity issues, andyou will be allowed to break the game.

How will you know if a mod is too much for your system to handle?

Because your game will start doing massive frame drops, crashing, generally bugging out, maybe not starting at all or any combination.

The usual stuff.

Quote from: BaconShelf on May 14, 2016, 04:57:05 AM

Quote from: SecondClass on May 14, 2016, 03:47:14 AM

Quote from: BaconShelf on May 14, 2016, 03:31:15 AM

Quote from: Stroud on May 13, 2016, 12:13:04 AM

There aren't many mods consoles can handle. Although small mods, like one that adds or retextures an armor/weapon will most likely work, larger ones such as script extenders, overhauls, and large quest mods will not work well if at all. Also, mods that have to be manually installed, such as nearly every ENB will not be available.

They may not work well bht they'll still be allowed. They're only filtering based on copyright and obscenity issues, andyou will be allowed to break the game.

How will you know if a mod is too much for your system to handle?

Because your game will start doing massive frame drops, crashing, generally bugging out, maybe not starting at all or any combination.

The usual stuff.

Makes sense, but I just meant from the mod list itself, before you even install it. Is it a file size thing?

Not really. There's likeoy a correlation between large mods and ones that crash often but I wouldn't use it as a judging tool. I'd use user reviews for that if you want an idea beforehand.