We've won, Steam went back on paid mods

Girl of Mystery · April 28, 2015, 10:09:59 AM

Quote from: Verbatim on April 28, 2015, 10:02:48 AM

Quote from: Isara on April 28, 2015, 09:48:15 AM
Those people do not deserve mods
No one deserves to have their art pissed on, I agree.

stop

Isara · April 28, 2015, 10:20:09 AM

It doesn't change the very fact that it wasn't right what these people did. The internet shouldn't be what a football stadium is perceived as by some.

Quote from: Naoto on April 28, 2015, 10:08:48 AM

While I think quite a few people get too wrapped up in the emotion, and don't really think the issue out rationally, I also just don't put much stock in 'people on the internet said mean things'. Since that is always going to be the case. Usually you get better results focusing on better dialogue, and blocking out the shitheads.

ban me · April 28, 2015, 10:23:13 AM

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Isara · April 28, 2015, 12:47:26 PM

That's the whole issue, and a lot of drama and hate could have been avoided if Steam was more transparent. Instead everything was done behind closed doors, NDA's and so forth, where the general opinion outside of Valve was barred. (Some modder also commented on some issues, but they weren't heard, I don't remember which one though)

So really, it just goes back to the fundamental flaw in the industry; no transparency.

Quote from: Iberian Husky on April 28, 2015, 10:23:13 AM

Steam's system did not encourage that.

Coco · April 28, 2015, 02:45:54 PM

Is there currently a donation system in place? There should be a non-intrusive donation system in place.

big sponge · April 28, 2015, 03:21:38 PM

Quote from: Cocos on April 28, 2015, 02:45:54 PM

Is there currently a donation system in place? There should be a non-intrusive donation system in place.

There is on Nexus. Valve can't take a cut of donations though so they refuse to implement one.

CK97 · April 28, 2015, 10:32:14 PM

Isara · April 29, 2015, 07:51:11 AM

There are legal reasons as to why donations cannot be put through Steam, it's not just about the cut. (Which would make sense for Steam to take a cut, since the mod would be hosted on Steam)

Quote from: LC on April 28, 2015, 03:21:38 PM

Valve can't take a cut of donations though so they refuse to implement one.

Mattie G Indahouse · April 29, 2015, 08:15:19 AM

Here's the other problem about this shit. You have mods that replace the soundtrack in the game with something else. For example I have a mod the replaces Skyrim's music with Puella Magi music. So if there's a mod like this that ends up being a paid mod Steam and Bethesda would be making money off of someone elses work that isn't a mod. The whole idea for paid mods outside donations is just horrible.

Verbatim · April 29, 2015, 08:17:04 AM

i don't see how you people can't just go further and say that mods are bad in general

(because they are)

because you're infringing on someone else's work
which you all seem to be so against

it only matters to you when money is involved

Batch · April 29, 2015, 08:32:35 AM

Quote from: Verbatim on April 29, 2015, 08:17:04 AM

i don't see how you people can't just go further and say that mods are bad in general

(because they are)

because you're infringing on someone else's work
which you all seem to be so against

it only matters to you when money is involved

God you dont give up

*sips tea*

velox · April 29, 2015, 08:37:26 AM

Quote from: Verbatim on April 29, 2015, 08:17:04 AM

i don't see how you people can't just go further and say that mods are bad in general

(because they are)

because you're infringing on someone else's work
which you all seem to be so against

it only matters to you when money is involved

I guess fanart, let's plays, parodies and montages are wrong as well in that case.

Verbatim · April 29, 2015, 08:38:36 AM

you're not changing anything within the game itself with any of those

Batch · April 29, 2015, 08:40:09 AM

Jesus Christ just shut the fuck up

Naoto · April 29, 2015, 08:40:13 AM

Quote from: True Velox on April 29, 2015, 08:37:26 AM

Quote from: Verbatim on April 29, 2015, 08:17:04 AM
i don't see how you people can't just go further and say that mods are bad in general

(because they are)

because you're infringing on someone else's work
which you all seem to be so against

it only matters to you when money is involved
I guess fanart, let's plays, parodies and montages are wrong as well in that case.

>engaging the autism
>ever

Verbatim · April 29, 2015, 08:41:39 AM

yeah, respecting art is pretty autistic

how dare i

Batch · April 29, 2015, 08:42:36 AM

No, shut the fuck up, you arent allowed to speak anymore.

Verbatim · April 29, 2015, 08:44:07 AM

mods are bad

Batch · April 29, 2015, 08:45:13 AM

You're a poor console peasant, shut up.

*sips tea*

King pesto · April 29, 2015, 09:57:32 AM

Quote from: Verbatim on April 29, 2015, 08:41:39 AM

yeah, respecting art is pretty autistic

how dare i

all creative work is derivative.

big sponge · April 29, 2015, 02:35:17 PM

Quote from: Isara on April 29, 2015, 07:51:11 AM

There are legal reasons as to why donations cannot be put through Steam

In what country?

Flee · April 29, 2015, 02:37:58 PM

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Isara · April 30, 2015, 05:26:16 AM

I was actually talking about that grey area, and especially since the developer or publisher of that game might want to get involved. I think, that adding a donation button-- just like making paid mods available, it requires the actual developer or publisher (whoever holds the rights) to agree with that. It wouldn't normally be a concern, but a website like Nexus or a service like Steam which have a huge amount of users and mods, are special cases. They need to have a favorable relation with the publisher or developer.

But fundamentally the paid mods failed because they didn't approach it the right way, and instead went with the industry standard which doesn't really apply well to mods. It should have given a chance for players to see how messed up the industry is.

Quote from: Flee on April 29, 2015, 02:37:58 PM

Can you elaborate? I'm much more well versed in criminal law, so intellectual property isn't my strong suit, but what would the legal problems be with an agreement between Steam and a content creator that they receive part of the money? "Donation" would be an extremely poor choice of words then, but "tip" or "contribution" would probably fly.

There is of course the issue with modding being a grey area because they're relying on copyrighted material (game assets), but that's a general problem with donations for that, regardless of whether it's through Steam or not.

Luciana · April 30, 2015, 09:21:33 AM

"We just wanted to test the waters and see how much of our dick you'd take."

-Valve

Luciana · April 30, 2015, 09:23:20 AM

Quote from: Naoto on April 27, 2015, 09:34:57 PM

Quote from: Saerveyn on April 27, 2015, 09:25:48 PM
Quote from: Naoto on April 27, 2015, 09:22:15 PM
Finding a way for modders to get paid for their work is not in and of itself a bad thing.

Oh, I totally agree.

So what about the fact that the modders only made 25% of the income that their mods brought in, and only after $100 total was spent on their mod by the community?
That was one of the (many) negatives. Supposedly its the current industry standard for paid mods according to Bethesda.

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/amid-controversy-bethesda-defends-paid-steam-mods/1100-6426929/

I think they had more issues with copyright, mod ownership, mod requirements, and no contingency for a mod suddenly not working due to update or interference from another mod, etc. The the user would be s.o.l. for the money they would have spent.

I feel it should also be mentioned that any money the modders made would be put in their steam wallet, rather than an actual bank account. So they're really making nothing and Valve was getting it all.

Naoto · April 30, 2015, 10:43:37 AM

Quote from: Luciana on April 30, 2015, 09:23:20 AM

Quote from: Naoto on April 27, 2015, 09:34:57 PM
Quote from: Saerveyn on April 27, 2015, 09:25:48 PM
Quote from: Naoto on April 27, 2015, 09:22:15 PM
Finding a way for modders to get paid for their work is not in and of itself a bad thing.

Oh, I totally agree.

So what about the fact that the modders only made 25% of the income that their mods brought in, and only after $100 total was spent on their mod by the community?
That was one of the (many) negatives. Supposedly its the current industry standard for paid mods according to Bethesda.

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/amid-controversy-bethesda-defends-paid-steam-mods/1100-6426929/

I think they had more issues with copyright, mod ownership, mod requirements, and no contingency for a mod suddenly not working due to update or interference from another mod, etc. The the user would be s.o.l. for the money they would have spent.
I feel it should also be mentioned that any money the modders made would be put in their steam wallet, rather than an actual bank account. So they're really making nothing and Valve was getting it all.

I heard the mod refunds were going to steam wallet. Don't remember hearing the modders themselves being paid via steam wallet. Would think that would get a lot more press if that were the case since it'd be ridiculous. Link by chance?

Girl of Mystery · April 30, 2015, 06:53:18 PM

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