Spoiler Want to play Undertale the right way but can't stand the characters

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"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
โ€”Judge Aaron Satie
โ€”โ€”Carmen
Because the game, the game creator, and everyone who plays the game deeply hold onto that fact.
Genocide ending holds up perfectly well on its own. You just don't feel satisfied by it because you're a little puss who doesn't understand that tragedy is a genre.

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What the fuck? Obviously I don't believe that choices in VIDEO GAMES represent the morality of the player, I'm saying that's the attitude of the game and its players.
why can't the game make moral assessments on actions you make
it's like you're literally feeling accused of being a murderer because a game does it for the sake of trying to give you a meaningful experience. it's hilarious. calling your viewpoint autistic isn't just a meme, you literally have trouble interpreting the intentions and feelings behind communication.
You keep getting way too defensive over this, lmao. If the intent of my posts wasn't clear, I'm talking about every single fan of the game who has ever existed. I've never even beat the game, I'm talking about the attitude of the game's creator and his followers. Everyone says pacifist is the only true way to play it, and anything else is a disservice and makes you (yes, the player) immoral.

I don't give a shit at all about the NPCs reactions to my actions. I'm killing their friends, why wouldn't they hate me? I'm talking about the attitude of the game fandom, creator, and game itself toward the player.

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So many people out and out reject the dichotomous good/bad morality systems in places like BioWare games, but I think they offer a good starting point for this conversation. When you look at their achievements, they sometimes have one for each path, which implies the game should be played in both directions. I have never done it. Iโ€™ve only played good characters because I donโ€™t like being evil or a dick (in the case of Mass Effect). It just doesnโ€™t bring joy to my heart, so Undertale reinforcing that position within the game with a heavy Aesopian level of fable is perfectly suited toward that attitude. This isnโ€™t about experiencing โ€œeverything.โ€ This is about making a moral choice and seeing it through to the end with actual consequences even if theyโ€™re never dire to your actual life.
Attitudes like this. Literally advocating for playing 50% of a game.
Last Edit: April 15, 2016, 02:58:12 PM by SecondClass


Doctor Doom | Mythic Invincible!
 
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the one true God is Doctor Doom and we should all be worshiping him.
The entire game is a commentary on choosing to be evil in a video game out of boredom or curiosity. Of course you don't like it - you're the sort of player the game is mocking.


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"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
โ€”Judge Aaron Satie
โ€”โ€”Carmen
The entire game is a commentary on choosing to be evil in a video game out of boredom or curiosity. Of course you don't like it - you're the sort of player the game is mocking.
Exactly. Even though, in choice based games, it's pretty much a requirement to play both sides. Otherwise you're throwing money away.

Which is what I don't like about Undertale. It literally encourages you to only play half of the game. It wants you to only play half of the game. A game like Fallout or Mass Effect encourages you to play both branches.


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This discussion reminds me of this guy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZf9hND_G4g

With whom I couldn't disagree more, btw


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the one true God is Doctor Doom and we should all be worshiping him.
The entire game is a commentary on choosing to be evil in a video game out of boredom or curiosity. Of course you don't like it - you're the sort of player the game is mocking.
Exactly. Even though, in choice based games, it's pretty much a requirement to play both sides. Otherwise you're throwing money away.

It's not a requirement, it's a choice. You can go for a Genocide Run if you want, and you're given ample warning that there will be consequences. It'd be unfair if the game actively encouraged you to play it and then told you that, but it doesn't.

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Which is what I don't like about Undertale. It literally encourages you to only play half of the game. It wants you to only play half of the game. A game like Fallout or Mass Effect encourages you to play both branches.

A game like Fallout or Mass Effect isn't a commentary on being cruel for the sake of entertainment. Those are sandbox games. Undertale isn't.


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"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
โ€”Judge Aaron Satie
โ€”โ€”Carmen
The entire game is a commentary on choosing to be evil in a video game out of boredom or curiosity. Of course you don't like it - you're the sort of player the game is mocking.
Exactly. Even though, in choice based games, it's pretty much a requirement to play both sides. Otherwise you're throwing money away.

It's not a requirement, it's a choice. You can go for a Genocide Run if you want, and you're given ample warning that there will be consequences. It'd be unfair if the game actively encouraged you to play it and then told you that, but it doesn't.

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Which is what I don't like about Undertale. It literally encourages you to only play half of the game. It wants you to only play half of the game. A game like Fallout or Mass Effect encourages you to play both branches.

A game like Fallout or Mass Effect isn't a commentary on being cruel for the sake of entertainment. Those are sandbox games. Undertale isn't.
I guess that makes sense. Honestly, if I did a genocide run when the game released, I probably wouldn't have such an adverse reaction to it. It's mainly the fans who criticize me any time I ask for any advice or information relating to genocide in the least because "I'm a bad person for doing it".


 
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I DONT GIVE A SINGLE -blam!- MOTHER -blam!-ER ITS A MOTHER -blam!-ING FORUM, OH WOW, YOU HAVE THE WORD NINJA BELOW YOUR NAME, HOW MOTHER -blam!-ING COOL, NOT, YOUR ARE NOTHING TO ME BUT A BRAINWASHED PIECE OF SHIT BLOGGER, PEOPLE ONLY LIKE YOU BECAUSE YOU HAVE NINJA BELOW YOUR NAME, SO PLEASE PUNCH YOURAELF IN THE FACE AND STAB YOUR EYE BECAUSE YOU ARE NOTHING BUT A PIECE OF SHIT OF SOCIETY
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"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
โ€”Judge Aaron Satie
โ€”โ€”Carmen
Even in a game like Mass Effect, taking the evil route results in disgusted reactions from certain companions, different and darker outcomes for the world, etc. You're being evil, of course nothing good is going to come from it.

But yet the game itself doesn't strongly, strongly dissuade you from taking that path. It's a viable option for you to play as - in Undertale, choosing that option makes you the player a monster. How dare you kill all these peace loving villagers who just want to be your friend? No, the TRUE way to play is to never kill a soul. Anything else and you're missing the TRUE point of the game.
Yeah funnily enough people consider you a monster if you commit genocide.
Yeah funnily enough you the player didn't commit genocide, you played a video game.

Jesus Christ, even after I underlined it, you still don't get it.
literally what the fuck

This is some seriously intense autism
Why'd you and Eggsalad not get what I was saying here? I'm trying to say that this is the attitude of the game's fanbase, I wasn't saying I believed it.


eggsalad | Heroic Unstoppable!
 
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Which is what I don't like about Undertale. It literally encourages you to only play half of the game. It wants you to only play half of the game.
it knows that players will elect to try genocide out of curiosity


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"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
โ€”Judge Aaron Satie
โ€”โ€”Carmen
Which is what I don't like about Undertale. It literally encourages you to only play half of the game. It wants you to only play half of the game.
it knows that players will elect to try genocide out of curiosity
it knows that players will fully play the game they spent money on


i am karjala takaisin | Mythic Inconceivable!
 
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Ember used to be cool and funny

Now he's just gay
hombre, quiero tener un trรญo con "bratty y catty" :ยญยญP


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"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
โ€”Judge Aaron Satie
โ€”โ€”Carmen
finally fucking beat Undyne jesus christ

literally just intense memorization

I'm in Hotland right now and this is actually getting pretty sweet. I'm glad I already got way spoiled before I gave this game a second go, it's a lot better to not only get to kill all these characters, but understand the plot at the same time

I'm pretty much just playing Frisk as a complete servant to Chara

(there's also a theory I like out there, however implausible, that Frisk is the empty shell of Chara's dead body infused with a soul and determination. Doesn't make much sense, but I might go ahead with that in mind just to make it a bit more interesting. It at least explains why the two of them look nearly identical)
Last Edit: April 16, 2016, 05:06:08 AM by SecondClass


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"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
โ€”Judge Aaron Satie
โ€”โ€”Carmen
it's actually way harder to play genocide than neutral/pacifist, I've realized

that 40 monster grind was rough


 
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The entire game is a commentary on choosing to be evil in a video game out of boredom or curiosity. Of course you don't like it - you're the sort of player the game is mocking.
And they mocked me for being a goody-two-shoes in Fallout 3.

I really have to play this game some time.


 
Verbatim
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It's mainly the fans who criticize me any time I ask for any advice or information relating to genocide in the least because "I'm a bad person for doing it".
are you sure these people aren't actually being genuine, and are just playing into the game's theme

i fucking hate annoying fanbases, too--they can seriously ruin a game for me

but i have doubts that these people are being serious when they call you a bad person for playing a game a certain way


๐Ÿ Aria ๐Ÿ”ฎ | Mythic Inconceivable!
 
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His eyebrows sparkling, his white beard hangs down to his chest. The thatched mats, spread outside his chise, spread softly, his splendid attos. He polishes, cross-legged, his makiri, with his eyes completely absorbed.

He is Ainu.

The god of Ainu Mosir, Ae-Oine Kamuy, descendant of Okiku-Rumi, He perishes, a living corpse. The summers day, the white sunlight, unabrushed, ends simply through his breath alone.
It's mainly the fans who criticize me any time I ask for any advice or information relating to genocide in the least because "I'm a bad person for doing it".
are you sure these people aren't actually being genuine, and are just playing into the game's theme

i fucking hate annoying fanbases, too--they can seriously ruin a game for me

but i have doubts that these people are being serious when they call you a bad person for playing a game a certain way
Genocide is bad and people who genocide should feel bad


 
Verbatim
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Genocide is bad and people who genocide should feel bad
hitler though


๐Ÿ Aria ๐Ÿ”ฎ | Mythic Inconceivable!
 
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His eyebrows sparkling, his white beard hangs down to his chest. The thatched mats, spread outside his chise, spread softly, his splendid attos. He polishes, cross-legged, his makiri, with his eyes completely absorbed.

He is Ainu.

The god of Ainu Mosir, Ae-Oine Kamuy, descendant of Okiku-Rumi, He perishes, a living corpse. The summers day, the white sunlight, unabrushed, ends simply through his breath alone.
Genocide is bad and people who genocide should feel bad
hitler though
That wasn't genocide, it was liberation.


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โ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–€โ–€โ–€โ–€โ–€โ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–€โ–€โ–€โ–€โ–€โ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆ โ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–€โ–‘โ–‘โ–€โ–€โ–ˆโ–„โ–„โ–„โ–„โ–„โ–„โ–ˆโ–ˆโ–„โ–„โ–„โ–„โ–„โ–„โ–ˆโ–€โ–‘โ–‘โ–€โ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆ โ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–„โ–‘โ–‘โ–„โ–„โ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–€โ–€โ–€โ–€โ–€โ–€โ–€โ–€โ–€โ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–„โ–„โ–‘โ–‘โ–„โ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆ โ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–€โ–€โ–€โ–€โ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–€โ–‘โ–‘โ–‘โ–‘โ–‘โ–‘โ–‘โ–‘โ–‘โ–‘โ–‘โ–‘โ–‘โ–‘โ–‘โ–€โ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–€โ–€โ–€โ–€โ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆ โ–ˆโ–ˆโ–€โ–‘โ–‘โ–‘โ–‘โ–‘โ–‘โ–ˆโ–ˆโ–€โ–‘โ–‘โ–‘โ–‘โ–‘โ–‘โ–ˆโ–ˆโ–‘โ–‘โ–‘โ–ˆโ–ˆโ–‘โ–‘โ–‘โ–‘โ–‘โ–‘โ–€โ–ˆโ–ˆโ–‘โ–‘โ–‘โ–‘โ–‘โ–‘โ–€โ–ˆโ–ˆ โ–ˆโ–‘โ–‘โ–‘โ–€โ–€โ–€โ–€โ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–‘โ–‘โ–‘โ–‘โ–‘โ–‘โ–‘โ–ˆโ–ˆโ–‘โ–‘โ–‘โ–ˆโ–ˆโ–‘โ–‘โ–‘โ–‘โ–‘โ–‘โ–‘โ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–€โ–€โ–€โ–€โ–‘โ–‘โ–‘โ–ˆ โ–ˆโ–„โ–„โ–‘โ–‘โ–‘โ–‘โ–‘โ–‘โ–ˆโ–ˆโ–‘โ–‘โ–‘โ–‘โ–„โ–‘โ–‘โ–€โ–€โ–‘โ–‘โ–‘โ–€โ–€โ–‘โ–‘โ–„โ–‘โ–‘โ–‘โ–‘โ–ˆโ–ˆโ–‘โ–‘โ–‘โ–‘โ–‘โ–‘โ–„โ–„โ–ˆ โ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–„โ–‘โ–‘โ–‘โ–‘โ–€โ–ˆโ–ˆโ–‘โ–‘โ–‘โ–‘โ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–‘โ–‘โ–‘โ–‘โ–ˆโ–ˆโ–€โ–‘โ–‘โ–‘โ–‘โ–„โ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆ โ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–€โ–ˆโ–ˆโ–„โ–‘โ–‘โ–‘โ–€โ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–€โ–‘โ–‘โ–‘โ–„โ–ˆโ–ˆโ–€โ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆ โ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–€โ–‘โ–‘โ–‘โ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–„โ–„โ–‘โ–‘โ–‘โ–‘โ–‘โ–‘โ–‘โ–‘โ–‘โ–„โ–„โ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–‘โ–‘โ–‘โ–€โ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆ โ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–‘โ–‘โ–‘โ–„โ–€โ–‘โ–‘โ–€โ–€โ–€โ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–€โ–€โ–€โ–‘โ–‘โ–€โ–„โ–‘โ–‘โ–‘โ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆ โ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–‘โ–‘โ–‘โ–€โ–‘โ–‘โ–‘โ–‘โ–‘โ–‘โ–‘โ–‘โ–„โ–„โ–„โ–ˆโ–„โ–„โ–„โ–‘โ–‘โ–‘โ–‘โ–‘โ–‘โ–‘โ–‘โ–€โ–‘โ–‘โ–‘โ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆ โ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–„โ–„โ–„โ–„โ–„โ–„โ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–„โ–„โ–„โ–„โ–„โ–„โ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆ โ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–€โ–‘โ–‘โ–€โ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆ โ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–€โ–‘โ–‘โ–‘โ–„โ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆ โ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–‘โ–‘โ–‘โ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆ โ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–‘โ–‘โ–‘โ–€โ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆ โ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–„โ–‘โ–‘โ–‘โ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆ โ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–‘โ–‘โ–‘โ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆโ–ˆ


DID SOMEONE SAY GENOCIDE?
Last Edit: April 16, 2016, 09:10:29 PM by Mega Sceptile