Tbh it doesn't really matter how much disdain Verbatim has for modding because, if I'm on any non-vanilla game and having fun, his opinion is virtually meaningless and insignificant. THUG Pro is one of my favorite games ever, the entire thing is essentially one giant mod, and when I get on it I'm not sitting there thinking, "oh god I hope Verby doesn't find out that I'm playing with mods," nor am I thinking, "wow how could Verby not like something like this, it's fuckin' preposterous."

No, in fact, in that moment I really just don't give enough of a shit to consider his perspective on the matter worth contemplating at all. So I find it at least a little peculiar that some of you have to defend your stance on mods rather vehemently as if his stance on things has really offended you or something. I mean he's not god or anything.

what i do is question people for their interests
if you like something, you should be able to explain precisely why, and if you can't, then you're just... not very smart

irony

and when i point out that truth to people, they get butthurt

so basically, they're crybabies

Well, no, you've repeatedly said that mods are stupid, making mods is stupid, playing mods is stupid, and that it's essentially playing the game "wrong". So at this point they're not upset that you don't like mods, they're upset that you're repeatedly insulting them in a very childish way. That doesn't make them crybabies, it just makes you a bit of an ass.

Quote from: Kupo on March 31, 2015, 12:41:27 AM

Quote from: Verbatim on March 31, 2015, 12:28:36 AM

Quote from: BritishLemön on March 31, 2015, 12:26:03 AM

>hyperbole

i don't even agree with the underlying statement being made that mods are good, though

Um.

Um...

Uhmm...

UM...

Could you get to your fucking point, please? god

His point is that there are mods that fix games. The mod article he linked for KoTOR 2 is a restoration mod. That mod adds content to the game that was cut. Some of the content that was cut was major story elements like the HK factory. You want through the whole game having the HK droids trying to kill you and you tried to find out where they came from. With the mod you are able to to that. Then for the other mods they ended up being their own game. Mods like Team Fortress and Counter-Strike ended up becoming their own games. So because of people making mods we are able to restore content to a game that was going to play a major rule or having games that started out being a mod.

So would you say people piss all over Halo whenever they use Forge mode, in order to make maps that are better than the vanilla ones?

No, because Forge is an actual part of the game.

The mod article he linked for KoTOR 2 is a restoration mod. That mod adds content to the game that was cut. Some of the content that was cut was major story elements like the HK factory.

So why the fuck was it cut in the first place?

Here's a solution: Don't cut out important parts of the game.
Don't have the community do your fucking work for you.

Now I hate the modding community even more.

You want through the whole game having the HK droids trying to kill you and you tried to find out where they came from. With the mod you are able to to that.

Shouldn't have been cut out in the first place.

Then for the other mods they ended up being their own game. Mods like Team Fortress and Counter-Strike ended up becoming their own games.

And they're both godawful.

Jesus fucking Christ

Quote from: Cocos on March 31, 2015, 05:16:47 PM

It's arguable that the Creation Kits that developers like Bethesda release to the public are just as much an "actual part of the game", regardless of the fact that it's a separate program.

It has to be inside of the game itself to be part of the game.

Who dictates that?
Also, I guess I'm supposed to say a game is trash whenever the launcher that allows me to adjust the resolution of the game to something I can see is its own .exe, hence "not inside the game itself".

There was nothing to respond to.

I wouldn't call developers idiots or bad at their jobs for giving tools like those to the public. I'd say that they don't have their heads lodged up their asses, since they're not believing that their art is perfect, not improvable, must stay pure, and must be looked at the same way by everyone.  Maybe those developers aren't pissed, because those modders show how the game inspired people to try and make their own art, using the game engine that the team's programmers slaved over.

Who dictates that?

Me. Feel free to disagree with me, I don't care. But that's my personal interpretation.

Also, I guess I'm supposed to say a game is trash, since the launcher that allows me to adjust the resolution of the game to something I can see is its own .exe, hence "not inside the game itself".

I would say the resolution of the game is inside the game itself, yeah. You can fucking see it, with your eyeballs, on the screen.

I wouldn't call developers idiots or bad at their jobs for giving tools like those to the public. I'd say that they don't have their heads lodged up their asses, since they're not believing that their art is perfect, not improvable, must stay pure, and must be looked at the same way by everyone.  Maybe those developers aren't pissed, because those modders show how the game inspired people to try and make their own art, using the game engine that the team's programmers slaved over.

Okay.

I don't care what you'd say. I obviously disagree.

i'm hardly a "gamer"

not a single person has demonstrated how my opinion is "wrong"

Lol verbatim

Quote from: Cocos on March 31, 2015, 05:23:11 PM

Who dictates that?

Me. Feel free to disagree with me, I don't care. But that's my personal interpretation.

Those set of rules seem a little...picky, for lack of a better word. 

You're entitled to your own opinion, just like I am with mine, and it's not as if my end-goal is to sell the concepts of mods to you.  I really don't care if you hate mods, PC gaming, drinking, etc... but would rather you not voice those opinions so aggressively/offensively/stubbornly.

Anywho: sometimes creation kits and whatnot are separate because the devs want to give players the creative medium of something like Forge, but want to give them tools that run off a separate architecture what the actual game itself runs in.  Good examples of this are Halo 2 Vista's map editor (it's pretty much a beefed up Forge mode that ran in a separate .exe, but was included in the install) and Starcraft II's editor.

Also consider the tool-creation aspect of making a game.  A massive chunk of development goes into slaving over a custom game engine, and as someone who's slaved over game engines, I'd personally be extremely happy to see that my work didn't serve one purpose and then fade into oblivion, and that someone picked my engine to make a custom MLP-themed space-adventure, or some shit, rather than just using Unity or GameMaker.

Quote

Also, I guess I'm supposed to say a game is trash, since the launcher that allows me to adjust the resolution of the game to something I can see is its own .exe, hence "not inside the game itself".

I would say the resolution of the game is inside the game itself, yeah. You can fucking see it, with your eyeballs, on the screen.

Yes, but the component that allows me to adjust what I can "fucking see, with my eyeballs, on the screen" is sometimes in an .exe separate from the game itself, and sometimes it's not even that, but is a text file that I have to edit manually.  That would make it an edit to a game done from outside, or *pulls sunglasses* a mod.

Okay.

I don't care what you'd say. I obviously disagree.

But why not let the developers decide whether or not they consider it "pissing on their art"?  Why are you insulted on their behalf?  If they're giving out the tools to the public, I doubt they see it that way.

It's also pretty snobbish, and just plain wrong, to believe that your own creation is infallible, and to believe that no one is better at your job than you.

Quote from: EnderWolf1013 on March 31, 2015, 06:06:15 PM

Mods improve games (well most of them anyway)

Tell me right now how i'm supposed to play Skyrim without mods?

By not playing Skyrim, because it's a bad game.

>opinions

It isn't a very good game, it could have been better, I will agree with that.

But my point is that modding can make a bad game good for PC users.