The new zoom mechanic for Halo 5 is great.

Mr. Admirals · December 20, 2014, 12:43:50 PM

Quote from: Kinder der Mörder on December 20, 2014, 12:40:36 PM

Quote from: Mr. Admirals on December 20, 2014, 12:39:15 PM
Quote from: Kinder der Mörder on December 20, 2014, 12:36:48 PM
I assume you're playing early access

Would you say it plays like Halo 4 or more like 2/3/arena feel? Basically, is it better than Halo 4 or what
Way, way, way better than Halo 4. It certainly has that arena feel, but with a much heavier emphasis on mobility.
Alright, that's great to hear. Knew it would have been better when learning Bravo became their community manager

When I mean mobility has a much greater emphasis, I'm serious.

I just want you to understand that. Because for some people, the added mobility ruins what made Halo, Halo.

Flee · December 20, 2014, 12:46:23 PM

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Mr. Admirals · December 20, 2014, 01:00:56 PM

Quote from: Flee on December 20, 2014, 12:46:23 PM

Quote from: Ossku on December 20, 2014, 12:30:02 PM
Quote from: Flee on December 20, 2014, 12:28:58 PM
Halo is growing ever closer to CoD.
Lemme cast a flame resistance spell on you.
Eh, I don't need it. I'm pretty sure that even the most dedicated Halo fans have to admit that we are straying away from Halo's roots and are becoming more and more like CoD.

See, I don't understand that statement. Because yeah, the visuals and UI are becoming more modernized or "codified", but the gameplay itself still centers around team plays, power weapons, and map control.

It's an arena shooter. Which is as far away from CoD as you can get.

Flee · December 20, 2014, 01:14:03 PM

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g💚jira · December 20, 2014, 01:38:36 PM

Quote from: Flee on December 20, 2014, 01:14:03 PM

Quote from: Mr. Admirals on December 20, 2014, 01:00:56 PM
Quote from: Flee on December 20, 2014, 12:46:23 PM
Quote from: Ossku on December 20, 2014, 12:30:02 PM
Quote from: Flee on December 20, 2014, 12:28:58 PM
Halo is growing ever closer to CoD.
Lemme cast a flame resistance spell on you.
Eh, I don't need it. I'm pretty sure that even the most dedicated Halo fans have to admit that we are straying away from Halo's roots and are becoming more and more like CoD.
See, I don't understand that statement. Because yeah, the visuals and UI are becoming more modernized or "codified", but the gameplay itself still centers around team plays, power weapons, and map control.

It's an arena shooter. Which is as far away from CoD as you can get.
But that's the thing, Halo is becoming less and less of the arena shooter it was. Loadouts? Perks? Ordinance drops? All things that fundamentally go against what makes a game an arena shooter.

All things absent from Halo 5.

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The UI and visuals aren't becoming more modern, they are just becoming more like CoD.

But CoD's visuals are dull grey-browns in the name of "supar gritty." This is like smack in-your-face lights and explosions [which is also concerning but still.

The rest of your post I'm fairly sympathetic towards [or I'll wait to play before I judge] aside from your dismissal of it being an arena shooter [which it is, far more so than Reach/4, even with the added abilities]. Seems like change for the sake of change, but sometimes that can be good. The pro team stream for the game makes the changes look great [but initial, early beta looks can be fairly deceiving].

Flee · December 20, 2014, 01:43:00 PM

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God · December 20, 2014, 02:18:58 PM

Quote from: Flee on December 20, 2014, 01:14:03 PM

From a completely match-to-match based system to XP, upgrades and levels.

Honestly this is what bothers me the most. I don't mind changes to gameplay (the only things really I don't like about CoD's gameplay are the awful gunplay and killstreaks), but having the emphasis shifted away from winning and getting achievements to endlessly grinding points is a travisty.

I have so many good memories of working with my friends to get various achievements for halo 3 and ODST, but Halo 4 was just a forgettable timesink.

Mr. Admirals · December 20, 2014, 02:45:17 PM

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But that's the thing, Halo is becoming less and less of the arena shooter it was. Loadouts? Perks? Ordinance drops? All things that fundamentally go against what makes a game an arena shooter.

Yeah, but isn't that entirely irrelevant since we're talking about Halo 5, which has an emphasis on Arena gameplay?

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The UI and visuals aren't becoming more modern, they are just becoming more like CoD.

Just like Halo defined modern shooter gameplay attributes, Call of Duty defined modern shooter UI.

I think you're being silly if you refuse to accept if Call of Duty isn't modern.

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Instead of trickjumps, grenade jumps and free/basic movement, we're moving to vaulting and climbing. Instead of barebones gameplay and movement, we're moving to sprinting, jetpacks, thrusters, sliding, slamming and groundpounds.

Yeah, but the basic movement wasn't replaced by them. Basic movement is still there. More often than not, I find myself getting destroyed because I stupidly sprinted into combat instead of actually taking it slow. I really don't get your point of view on this, because you're acting like these new abilities destroy the emphasis on base movement. Players are still strafing, players are still backpedaling and jumping our of the way of grenades.

These new abilities, using them incorrectly in combat will literally get you killed. If I wasn't so liberal with wanting to use them, I'd be doing much better. Frankly, you're not even forced to use them. And not using them really won't give you a disadvantage, unless you're up against a guy who really understands when to fundamentally use the abilities.

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From toggled zoom to "hold down LT to aim down sights".

If you're completely incompetent at changing your control scheme, then yeah, you'll be stuck in "Hold LT to use Smart Scope". But I never once have used LT to use smart scope. Took a look at the default controls and immediately switched to the "Halo 4" control scheme. Smart Scope is on a Toggle by clicking the right stick.

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From a completely match-to-match based system to XP, upgrades and levels.

Match to match based skill ranking is back. And it's really cool too. Has a meter to show you how much your skill has improved/decreased, and when you'll be deranked or promoted.

The SR system is still there, yeah, but it's only for armor this time around.

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I don't know how familiar you are with the core arena experience of games like Quake or UT, but I'm growing more and more reluctant to consider Halo as a genuine arena shooter.

Halo was never a 'genuine' arena shooter. Back when CE came out, many old school shooters viewed it in the same light we see CoD in.

To put it bluntly, Halo is one of the most casual arena shooters ever created when you compare it to competitive giants like Doom or Quake, and other obscure titles that have faded away.

Assassin 11D7 · December 20, 2014, 03:07:10 PM

Quote from: Mr. Admirals on December 20, 2014, 02:45:17 PM

I think you're being silly if you refuse to accept if Call of Duty isn't modern.

Now, I think that's wrong. Call of Duty created a different kind of UI for FPS and Shooter games in general, but it's only modern if you equate modern with popular. There's nothing in my mind saying you can't have a more classic Halo UI scheme that's still modern, as in it's how Halo is for this period in time. Diversity is always good, and we shouldn't all change to something because it's more popular. Note: I'm not entirely sure what we're talking about here by using UI(user-interface).

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Yeah, but the basic movement wasn't replaced by them. Basic movement is still there. More often than not, I find myself getting destroyed because I stupidly sprinted into combat instead of actually taking it slow. I really don't get your point of view on this, because you're acting like these new abilities destroy the emphasis on base movement. Players are still strafing, players are still backpedaling and jumping our of the way of grenades.

He was talking about how they subtract, if not eradicate, the concept of trick jumps, grenade jumps, and having all movement be basic. With all these extra mechanics, movement is no longer basic, it becomes more complicated, while more options can be good, it can also go to the point of having too many options making it seem impossible to prepare for everything, which makes it seem random and bad. I've not played it, so I can't say which I think it's closer to.

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These new abilities, using them incorrectly in combat will literally get you killed. If I wasn't so liberal with wanting to use them, I'd be doing much better. Frankly, you're not even forced to use them. And not using them really won't give you a disadvantage, unless you're up against a guy who really understands when to fundamentally use the abilities.

You will be forced to when others find out how best to use them, that is the key. It's the beta, everybody sucks now, but when the final game releases people will have their experience from the Beta and will have time to further get these mechanics down. Then, and only then, will we be seeing their true extent over gameplay. We will see it to an extent with Pros and as the more competent players spend time in the Beta, but it won't be the same as later on.

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If you're completely incompetent at changing your control scheme, then yeah, you'll be stuck in "Hold LT to use Smart Scope". But I never once have used LT to use smart scope. Took a look at the default controls and immediately switched to the "Halo 4" control scheme. Smart Scope is on a Toggle by clicking the right stick.

Really, that's what decides it? They really should make it a toggleable option in the menu like with crouching. I don't know how much sway you and Halo Follower have with 343i, but I'd really suggest that to them. It sounds like something really simple to me. What are the control schemes by the way, same as usual with a new default?

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Match to match based skill ranking is back. And it's really cool too. Has a meter to show you how much your skill has improved/decreased, and when you'll be deranked or promoted.

The SR system is still there, yeah, but it's only for armor this time around.

Is it like Halo 2/3 Truskill ranking, or what?

That's the Reach/Halo 4 EXP based system, right? Just for buying armor like in Reach? Can you confirm that means we won't have them tied to Commendations like they stupidly were in Halo 4?

Mr. Admirals · December 20, 2014, 03:46:38 PM

Quote from: Statefarm on December 20, 2014, 10:04:33 AM

Quote from: Mr. Admirals on December 20, 2014, 01:34:35 AM
Quote from: Statefarm on December 19, 2014, 09:07:24 PM

Quote from: Assassin 11D7 on December 19, 2014, 09:06:44 PM
Quote from: Statefarm on December 19, 2014, 09:05:35 PM

Quote from: Assassin 11D7 on December 19, 2014, 08:57:51 PM
Quote from: Statefarm on December 19, 2014, 08:56:48 PM

Quote from: Assassin 11D7 on December 19, 2014, 08:54:02 PM
Is this satire? Please let this be satire.

The zoom in is actually a nice improvement and fits the current gameplay style.

Doesn't mean you will like the new style though
Does it at least give you a menu option to toggle whether or not you hold it to zoom, like it does for crouching?

I can't find it
For the zoom, or for crouching?

Crouching is there "toggle zoom" is not
The fuck control scheme are you using?

Default

Is toggle zoom worded differently or something

Any of the ones where it's mapped to the stick is on toggle.

Mr. Admirals · December 21, 2014, 12:22:23 AM

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Now, I think that's wrong. Call of Duty created a different kind of UI for FPS and Shooter games in general, but it's only modern if you equate modern with popular.

Not really.

mod·ern
ˈmädərn/Submit
adjective
1.
of or relating to the present or recent times as opposed to the remote past.
"the pace of modern life"

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There's nothing in my mind saying you can't have a more classic Halo UI scheme that's still modern, as in it's how Halo is for this period in time. Diversity is always good, and we shouldn't all change to something because it's more popular. Note: I'm not entirely sure what we're talking about here by using UI(user-interface).

UI is what allows the player to understand what's going on with the game. Graphics are UI, the gun having kickback and producing a flash while vbrating your controller is UI, the HUD is a UI.

My examples aren't necessarily what has been modernized though.

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He was talking about how they subtract, if not eradicate, the concept of trick jumps, grenade jumps, and having all movement be basic. With all these extra mechanics, movement is no longer basic, it becomes more complicated, while more options can be good, it can also go to the point of having too many options making it seem impossible to prepare for everything, which makes it seem random and bad. I've not played it, so I can't say which I think it's closer to.

They can still be basic if you want. You're not forced to use them.

And there's a formula to them. Once two or more players have engaged in combat, the use of things like Sprint or clamber stop. Really the only movement ability which is used is Thruster Pack, which functions similarly to how it does in Halo 4 (can't fire while using it). Of course sprint and those abilties are used when fleeing combat, which is why I'm advocating for their further nerfing/rebalancing.

Lastly, these abilities, they are used in very predictable scenarios, making them easy to adapt to.

Player Sprinting at you with their thrusters flaring = Charge (Or Slide, but no one uses that and it's not useful)
Player hovering above you = Ground Pound (pretty much a death sentence if you miss a player with it BTW)
Player Hovering with gun at ready = Hover
Player pulling themselves up over a ledge = clamber (literally the same thing as jumping up to the ledge)

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You will be forced to when others find out how best to use them, that is the key. It's the beta, everybody sucks now, but when the final game releases people will have their experience from the Beta and will have time to further get these mechanics down. Then, and only then, will we be seeing their true extent over gameplay. We will see it to an extent with Pros and as the more competent players spend time in the Beta, but it won't be the same as later on.

Which is entirely true. It creates a skill gap and a learning curve, does it not? Is that a bad thing?

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Really, that's what decides it? They really should make it a toggleable option in the menu like with crouching. I don't know how much sway you and Halo Follower have with 343i, but I'd really suggest that to them. It sounds like something really simple to me. What are the control schemes by the way, same as usual with a new default?

Totally, totally.

Apologies if the video quality is shitty.

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Is it like Halo 2/3 Truskill ranking, or what?

That's the Reach/Halo 4 EXP based system, right? Just for buying armor like in Reach? Can you confirm that means we won't have them tied to Commendations like they stupidly were in Halo 4?

Take a look.

I think it's better than 1-50. Also, gaining XP for your SR is HEAVILY tied to if you win or lose the match. I'm only an SR10 after 2 days of continuous play. Doesn't look like there's any commendations, but we are a year out.

Assassin 11D7 · December 21, 2014, 12:40:12 AM

Quote from: Mr. Admirals on December 21, 2014, 12:22:23 AM

They can still be basic if you want. You're not forced to use them.

And there's a formula to them. Once two or more players have engaged in combat, the use of things like Sprint or clamber stop. Really the only movement ability which is used is Thruster Pack, which functions similarly to how it does in Halo 4 (can't fire while using it). Of course sprint and those abilties are used when fleeing combat, which is why I'm advocating for their further nerfing/rebalancing.

Lastly, these abilities, they are used in very predictable scenarios, making them easy to adapt to.

Player Sprinting at you with their thrusters flaring = Charge (Or Slide, but no one uses that and it's not useful)
Player hovering above you = Ground Pound (pretty much a death sentence if you miss a player with it BTW)
Player Hovering with gun at ready = Hover
Player pulling themselves up over a ledge = clamber (literally the same thing as jumping up to the ledge)

That's no different than saying that you don't need to use AA's, Sprint, and Perks in Halo 4. Players haven't learned how to fully utilize them, they're still playing around. Sooner or later, if not currently, you will be punished and be at a severe disadvantage if you choose not to use these abilities. Choosing not to utilize a feature you dislike doesn't make the feature go away, or be less problematic.

Adapt. Gee, first time I've heard that one.

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Which is entirely true. It creates a skill gap and a learning curve, does it not? Is that a bad thing?

Just as the Jetpack adds to the skill gap, right? You can move vertically with ease, do you have any idea what levels of skill the Jetpack added to the game in Halo Reach and 4?! And of course, the legendary skill of Armor Lock!

What does Sprint & Zoom/Smart-Link & Zoom mean? What does Zoom mean? Are Assassinations gone? That would seem like a mistake on 343i's part.

Mr. Admirals · December 21, 2014, 01:16:05 AM

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That's no different than saying that you don't need to use AA's, Sprint, and Perks in Halo 4. Players haven't learned how to fully utilize them, they're still playing around. Sooner or later, if not currently, you will be punished and be at a severe disadvantage if you choose not to use these abilities. Choosing not to utilize a feature you dislike doesn't make the feature go away, or be less problematic.

Adapt. Gee, first time I've heard that one.

Wait. I seriously just said to adapt in a non-passive aggressive way. Wow. That actually slipped past me. In an effort to amend that, I will say that these abilities are very natural. At least Sprint, Thruster Pack, Smart Scope, and Clamber. The other three you can really get away with not using and aren't staples of the game's current required mechanics.

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Just as the Jetpack adds to the skill gap, right? You can move vertically with ease, do you have any idea what levels of skill the Jetpack added to the game in Halo Reach and 4?! And of course, the legendary skill of Armor Lock!

Here's the thing, those didn't really add anything because not everyone in the match had them. It lead to an unbalanced playing field and map flow.

Armor lock in general is just a stupid idea because it just prolongs combat. That's not good game design.

If Jet Pack was made a player trait, and the maps were designed accordingly, then I'd acknowledge a legitimate skill gap. Granted, the mechanics would have needed to be changed because the Reach and Halo 4 jetpacks were too straightforward.

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What does Sprint & Zoom/Smart-Link & Zoom mean? What does Zoom mean?

Could you elaborate a bit? I don't fully understand the questions.

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Are Assassinations gone?

They are still in the game. We're just seeing a lot less of them because of the increased mobility. Really makes it difficult to actually pull them off. I like it that way. Assassinations appear to be carried over from Halo 4. Unsure if they are placeholder, but I doubt it because they have updated sound design for them.

Assassin 11D7 · December 21, 2014, 01:52:51 AM

Quote from: Mr. Admirals on December 21, 2014, 01:16:05 AM

Wait. I seriously just said to adapt in a non-passive aggressive way. Wow. That actually slipped past me. In an effort to amend that, I will say that these abilities are very natural. At least Sprint, Thruster Pack, Smart Scope, and Clamber. The other three you can really get away with not using and aren't staples of the game's current required mechanics.

Uh huh. Yeah, I don't care for 'natural', whatever it's supposed to mean. Seeing my Spartan move around more "realistically" like it's Mirror's Edge/Titanfall/CoD really does nothing at all for me, and when that comes in as something that intrudes on the game for me, it starts to do negatives for me.

Would you be willing to bet on that in a week? Two? Next year?

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Here's the thing, those didn't really add anything because not everyone in the match had them. It lead to an unbalanced playing field and map flow.

That wasn't the end-all problem with AA's. That was a fraction of the problem AA's caused.

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Armor lock in general is just a stupid idea because it just prolongs combat. That's not good game design.

Sprint?

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If Jet Pack was made a player trait, and the maps were designed accordingly, then I'd acknowledge a legitimate skill gap. Granted, the mechanics would have needed to be changed because the Reach and Halo 4 jetpacks were too straightforward.

Uh, no. Just no. Jetpack was bad in the same way Sprint, AL, AC, and PV were bad. It wasn't that everybody didn't have them, it was that it was terrible for map design and for gameplay. Splash damage from Rockets? Worthless. Hide behind cover? Flies above you. It was broken for basic gameplay.

My point was that you were forced to use those things, they didn't add to the skill gap, they were crutches for bad players and you'd be at a disadvantage without using them too. What's stopping the new things from being any different? Admirals, question everything, be cynical, the Beta is the time for that.

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Could you elaborate a bit? I don't fully understand the questions.

In the video you linked me about the controller schemes. Why is Zoom separate from Smart-Link? Does it mean something else now?

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They are still in the game. We're just seeing a lot less of them because of the increased mobility. Really makes it difficult to actually pull them off. I like it that way. Assassinations appear to be carried over from Halo 4. Unsure if they are placeholder, but I doubt it because they have updated sound design for them.

Well, that's good and bad, I guess. Everyone's all over the place like a bunch of flies, huh? Seems a bit too frantic, then. They weren't easy to pull off in the first place, man, what you on about?

No new animations? They made that retarded Pistol running animation, couldn't they have at least done a good assassination one?

Mr. Admirals · December 21, 2014, 02:35:06 AM

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Uh huh. Yeah, I don't care for 'natural', whatever it's supposed to mean. Seeing my Spartan move around more "realistically" like it's Mirror's Edge/Titanfall/CoD really does nothing at all for me, and when that comes in as something that intrudes on the game for me, it starts to do negatives for me.

Well, it certainly seems you've made up your mind. No point in trying to alter your opinion.

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Would you be willing to bet on that in a week? Two? Next year?

I'd be willing to bet that up until January 18th. A year from now, I have no idea how the game will play.

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Sprint?

It's a double edged sword. You've just got to dull the bad blade. Which is what I'm advocating for.

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Uh, no. Just no. Jetpack was bad in the same way Sprint, AL, AC, and PV were bad. It wasn't that everybody didn't have them, it was that it was terrible for map design and for gameplay. Splash damage from Rockets? Worthless. Hide behind cover? Flies above you. It was broken for basic gameplay.

That's what I'm saying though. There were so many different abilities, and all the players in the game were going to have different ones, that the maps or even the game couldn't be adequately designed.

IE, if Jet Pack was a player trait, I envision a game where the maps are fantastically vertical, and explosive power weapons (like the rocket launcher), have a slight lock on to other players.

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What's stopping the new things from being any different? Admirals, question everything, be cynical, the Beta is the time for that.

I've been taking note, looking at bullshit scenarios. Whenever I use a Spartan Ability decently or poorly, it either doesn't help me, or gets me killed. When I use them well though... That's where the magic happens.

I'll keep my eye out, but frankly, the both of us have always tended to have a language disconnect. We misinterpret what we mean. I appreciate all the question you've been asking, keep them coming, but I suggest giving the beta a go for yourself. What I've learned is that you've got a very particular list of things you like and dislike in video games. I'm trying my best to meet that list adequately, but only you can really test it against the game.

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In the video you linked me about the controller schemes. Why is Zoom separate from Smart-Link? Does it mean something else now?

It shouldn't. My only guess for that is that not all weapons classify for Smart Scope?

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Well, that's good and bad, I guess. Everyone's all over the place like a bunch of flies, huh? Seems a bit too frantic, then.

Not exactly. I mean that because the mobility is up, it's generally harder to stay below radar, that and the map flow is really nice, so when layers have control of a section of the map, which frequently happens, it's hard to sneak up on them.

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No new animations? They made that retarded Pistol running animation, couldn't they have at least done a good assassination one?

Hey, at least it actually looks like you're running the way you would with a pistol, and not start to hold it like a rifle. =P

Flee · December 21, 2014, 04:49:23 AM

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Mattie G Indahouse · December 21, 2014, 06:27:14 AM

Quote from: Flee on December 20, 2014, 12:28:58 PM

Halo is growing ever closer to CoD.

The zoom had to be redone. The left trigger thing is a lot easier to use than constantly clicking the analog stick to get in and out of it. Simply holding the trigger in to zoom and letting go of it to get out is faster. It's also a good idea to have a type of zoom feature for the weapons that don't have a scope like the AR.

For the climbing thing that makes sense as well. It is dumb that if there's a wall in front of you that you can't jump over you have to go around it. with this you simply have your super solider climb over it.

Word Wizard · December 21, 2014, 11:18:35 AM

Quote from: BerzerkCommando on December 21, 2014, 06:27:14 AM

Quote from: Flee on December 20, 2014, 12:28:58 PM
Halo is growing ever closer to CoD.
The zoom had to be redone. The left trigger thing is a lot easier to use than constantly clicking the analog stick to get in and out of it. Simply holding the trigger in to zoom and letting go of it to get out is faster.

Then they could have just had a button layout with it.

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It's also a good idea to have a type of zoom feature for the weapons that don't have a scope like the AR.

I don't see how. They were niche weapons so having them work past their original range clutters the original weapon niches. Aside from damage buffers a AR and needler don't need to be able to zoom in to kill people medium to long range.

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For the climbing thing that makes sense as well. It is dumb that if there's a wall in front of you that you can't jump over you have to go around it. with this you simply have your super solider climb over it.

If we are going for realism, then spartans should be able to sprint for at least several minutes, use martial arts, kick things, throw rocks, not flip tanks or elephants, hang from stuff, and more. Halo used to have features that defined it as Halo now 343 constantly have to explain why their features are Halo.

Girl of Mystery · December 21, 2014, 11:36:34 AM

Quote from: Sly Instinct on December 21, 2014, 11:18:35 AM

Quote from: BerzerkCommando on December 21, 2014, 06:27:14 AM
Quote from: Flee on December 20, 2014, 12:28:58 PM
Halo is growing ever closer to CoD.
The zoom had to be redone. The left trigger thing is a lot easier to use than constantly clicking the analog stick to get in and out of it. Simply holding the trigger in to zoom and letting go of it to get out is faster.
Then they could have just had a button layout with it.

There is. You can switch the control scheme so zoom is assigned to R3 like it always has been

g💚jira · December 21, 2014, 11:39:25 AM

Quote from: Sly Instinct on December 21, 2014, 11:18:35 AM

The new zoom mechanic is great, but not for the reasons Berzerk's listing IMO. Smart scope is basically a tool for people who can't get used to the lowered aim assist [it is objectively the lowest in the series aside from CE, which is a return that I've been waiting a long time for]. Basically "scope" is now useful for things other than long range. There's slightly heavier auto aim in smart scope and the lowered FOV psychologically boosts your precision as well.

Mattie G Indahouse · December 21, 2014, 02:15:42 PM

Quote from: Sly Instinct on December 21, 2014, 11:18:35 AM

Then they could have just had a button layout with it.

They do.

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I don't see how. They were niche weapons so having them work past their original range clutters the original weapon niches.

No what clutters there original weapon niche is by having weapons like the ones in Halo 2, 3 and Reach which are near useless. The AR having a slight zoom feature doesn't get rid of its niche. It simply makes the weapon easier to aim with. If you have someone that's a decent distance away from you it does help when you have a feature that allows you to control the weapon better.

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If we are going for realism, then spartans should be able to sprint for at least several minutes, use martial arts, kick things, throw rocks, not flip tanks or elephants, hang from stuff, and more.

Bringing up them being super soldiers was a dumb thing to say since it implies they should be/shouldn't be able to do certain things. But when it comes down to gameplay wise it is dumb having people go out of their way to get around a 3 foot wall when it simply can be climbed over. Halo always had a base around map movement so having a climbing feature does go with it. Walking around a 3 foot wall doesn't.

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Halo used to have features that defined it as Halo now 343 constantly have to explain why their features are Halo.

Features like killcam are dumb to have in a game but do you really see Halo lasting long if it stayed nearly the same since Halo 2? For certain things like the zoom and the climbing feature it does make sense to have them when a lot of your gamers are used to things like that. You do want to have certain things in your game that are common to people instead of the game playing like it has no place today.

Assassin 11D7 · December 21, 2014, 03:03:10 PM

Quote from: Mr. Admirals on December 21, 2014, 02:35:06 AM

That's what I'm saying though. There were so many different abilities, and all the players in the game were going to have different ones, that the maps or even the game couldn't be adequately designed.

IE, if Jet Pack was a player trait, I envision a game where the maps are fantastically vertical, and explosive power weapons (like the rocket launcher), have a slight lock on to other players.

The game would still be bad if it were just Jet Packs.

Again, it would still be bad. You're trying to excuse and force something that simply doesn't work.

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I've been taking note, looking at bullshit scenarios. Whenever I use a Spartan Ability decently or poorly, it either doesn't help me, or gets me killed. When I use them well though... That's where the magic happens.

That's honestly a no shit statement. Things only work when you use them properly.

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I'll keep my eye out, but frankly, the both of us have always tended to have a language disconnect. We misinterpret what we mean. I appreciate all the question you've been asking, keep them coming, but I suggest giving the beta a go for yourself. What I've learned is that you've got a very particular list of things you like and dislike in video games. I'm trying my best to meet that list adequately, but only you can really test it against the game.

>Doesn't have Xbox One until Christmas
>Doesn't have early Beta access anyway

I'm pretty sure 343i isn't going to meet my expectations, they've always fallen short since they took over Halo, but the one thing I can do is talk about what I think they should do. The game will sell regardless, it has Halo on the box, but I'd prefer for them to make something that would last.

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It shouldn't. My only guess for that is that not all weapons classify for Smart Scope?

They look like separate buttons, idk.

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Not exactly. I mean that because the mobility is up, it's generally harder to stay below radar, that and the map flow is really nice, so when layers have control of a section of the map, which frequently happens, it's hard to sneak up on them.

So, crouching isn't too effective anymore? Are there any gametypes without Motion Tracker in the Beta that allow for players to move more freely, or are the footsteps still too loud?

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Hey, at least it actually looks like you're running the way you would with a pistol, and not start to hold it like a rifle. =P

Eh, I'd prefer holding it two handed like you do when you aim. Takes less time to reset your aim when you stop moving, and it looks kinda like a toddler running. God only knows how silly it must look if you were to sprint like that while looking straight up in the air.

Word Wizard · December 21, 2014, 03:57:22 PM

Quote from: BerzerkCommando on December 21, 2014, 02:15:42 PM

No what clutters there original weapon niche is by having weapons like the ones in Halo 2, 3 and Reach which are near useless. The AR having a slight zoom feature doesn't get rid of its niche. It simply makes the weapon easier to aim with. If you have someone that's a decent distance away from you it does help when you have a feature that allows you to control the weapon better.

Those weapons didn't suck because they couldn't zoom but because Bungie had no idea how to balance the sandbox and only nerfed weapons as opposed to buffing them. They made the AR take 23 bullets to kill on top of terrible netcode making some shots not register made it horrible. The kill times for non utility and non power weapons was awful. Aside from the DMR, I thought 343i did the best job at balancing the weapon sandbox in Halo 4.

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Bringing up them being super soldiers was a dumb thing to say since it implies they should be/shouldn't be able to do certain things. But when it comes down to gameplay wise it is dumb having people go out of their way to get around a 3 foot wall when it simply can be climbed over. Halo always had a base around map movement so having a climbing feature does go with it. Walking around a 3 foot wall doesn't.

Halo had consequential movement. You could jump 7ft in the air but if you didn't crouch at the right time or messed up the timing you could die, miss a jump to a power position, or lose miss the chance to help a team mate in a crucial moment. Around the first Halo's it wasn't unique but with modern shooters it made post 2006-07 it made it unique.

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Features like killcam are dumb to have in a game but do you really see Halo lasting long if it stayed nearly the same since Halo 2? For certain things like the zoom and the climbing feature it does make sense to have them when a lot of your gamers are used to things like that. You do want to have certain things in your game that are common to people instead of the game playing like it has no place today.

So every game should sacrifice uniqueness for conformity? I understand certain changes and I believe adding cool mechanics is a better direction that perks and loud outs, just not so sure these mechanics are the right ones for a halo play style. I guess I'll see when I play the beta.

Mattie G Indahouse · December 21, 2014, 04:07:48 PM

Quote from: Sly Instinct on December 21, 2014, 03:57:22 PM

So every game should sacrifice uniqueness for conformity?

To me it depends on what it is. For Halo I think it's a good idea having the option for zoom to be what it is now simply because every FPS game now zooms like that. If you have players that are used to that you want those players to feel comfortable in your game. I'm not saying we should get things like kill streaks or perks but for simply game play mechanics like that and climbing which don't harm anyhing I don't see why not.