So why is it you guys think your liking shitty watered down games...

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"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
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I play what's personally fun to me. Sue me.

I'd rather play a "watered down" game than take video games this seriously.


 
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I'm talking about the stats governed gameplay, speech checks, skill checks, et cetera. Fallout 4 has removed these and turned the gameplay into what is essentially an FPS.

Can I get a source on those claims?

Did you watch the gameplay?


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Lol retard


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Did he say glass of juice or gas the Jews?
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> adds more complex armor system
Does that mean power armor is acting like what it does in the first two games? Which is you're basically a walking tank. Normal melee attacks do nothing to you along with small arms. 


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If I'm not here, I'm doing photography. Or I'm asleep. Or in lockdown. One of those three, anyway.

The current titlebar/avatar setup is just normal.

I'm talking about the stats governed gameplay, speech checks, skill checks, et cetera. Fallout 4 has removed these and turned the gameplay into what is essentially an FPS.

Can I get a source on those claims?

Did you watch the gameplay?

So lemme get this straight;

You're taking what little gameplay we've seen so far, which has almost certainly been vetted so that no major story is plot is gathered, (e.g. the short chat with the man has been clearly cut out, while the conversation with Codsworth is hardly to going to be anything important that needs speech checks or skills required), and basing it solely off that?

C'mon man, I thought you were better than this. I'll take back what I've said if you turn out to be right, but assuming they've removed the absolute core of Fallout from what little we've garnered so far is just insane. Closer to the mark with more gameplay preview to generate hype (and to respond to accusations such as this) will hopefully quell the doubts.
Last Edit: June 19, 2015, 07:13:20 PM by SuperIrish


 
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I'm talking about the stats governed gameplay, speech checks, skill checks, et cetera. Fallout 4 has removed these and turned the gameplay into what is essentially an FPS.

Can I get a source on those claims?

Did you watch the gameplay?

So lemme get this straight;

You're taking what little gameplay we've seen so far, which has almost certainly been vetted so that no major story is plot is gathered, (e.g. the short chat with the man has been clearly cut out, while the conversation with Codsworth is hardly to going to be anything important that needs speech checks or skills required), and basing it solely off that?

C'mon man, I thought you were better than this. I'll take back what I've said if you turn out to be right, but assuming they've removed the absolute core of Fallout from what little we've garnered so far is just insane. Closer to the mark with more gameplay preview to generate hype (and to respond to accusations such as this) will hopefully quell the doubts.

Removal of stats means no speech or stat checks. If you've actually watched the gameplay (especially the power armor segment) you'll see that it basically plays like a shooter. Every conversation we've seen is a 4 choice dialogue wheel.


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> adds more complex armor system
Does that mean power armor is acting like what it does in the first two games? Which is you're basically a walking tank. Normal melee attacks do nothing to you along with small arms.
I was referencing that there's a layered armor system now. You don't just equip "raider armor" there's legs, torso, gloves, boots etc

And it seems like power armor will be its own entity. Like a customizable vehicle that you can't use all the time or some thing


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I'm talking about the stats governed gameplay, speech checks, skill checks, et cetera. Fallout 4 has removed these and turned the gameplay into what is essentially an FPS.

Can I get a source on those claims?

Did you watch the gameplay?

So lemme get this straight;

You're taking what little gameplay we've seen so far, which has almost certainly been vetted so that no major story is plot is gathered, (e.g. the short chat with the man has been clearly cut out, while the conversation with Codsworth is hardly to going to be anything important that needs speech checks or skills required), and basing it solely off that?

C'mon man, I thought you were better than this. I'll take back what I've said if you turn out to be right, but assuming they've removed the absolute core of Fallout from what little we've garnered so far is just insane. Closer to the mark with more gameplay preview to generate hype (and to respond to accusations such as this) will hopefully quell the doubts.

Removal of stats means no speech or stat checks. If you've actually watched the gameplay (especially the power armor segment) you'll see that it basically plays like a shooter. Every conversation we've seen is a 4 choice dialogue wheel.
stats have been replaced with a more fleshed out perk system which can be seen during the crafting segment video. Instead of putting X number of points into science before you can use a laser pistol, you'll have to have taken the tier 1 Science! Perk

Your SPECIAL also has more weight on your attributes like sneak and barted now

It's safe to assume you'll need certain charisma or perks like ladykiller to accomplish certain dialog options

More numbers doesn't automatically mean it's a better system.


 
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I'm talking about the stats governed gameplay, speech checks, skill checks, et cetera. Fallout 4 has removed these and turned the gameplay into what is essentially an FPS.

Can I get a source on those claims?

Did you watch the gameplay?

So lemme get this straight;

You're taking what little gameplay we've seen so far, which has almost certainly been vetted so that no major story is plot is gathered, (e.g. the short chat with the man has been clearly cut out, while the conversation with Codsworth is hardly to going to be anything important that needs speech checks or skills required), and basing it solely off that?

C'mon man, I thought you were better than this. I'll take back what I've said if you turn out to be right, but assuming they've removed the absolute core of Fallout from what little we've garnered so far is just insane. Closer to the mark with more gameplay preview to generate hype (and to respond to accusations such as this) will hopefully quell the doubts.

Removal of stats means no speech or stat checks. If you've actually watched the gameplay (especially the power armor segment) you'll see that it basically plays like a shooter. Every conversation we've seen is a 4 choice dialogue wheel.
stats have been replaced with a more fleshed out perk system which can be seen during the crafting segment video. Instead of putting X number of points into science before you can use a laser pistol, you'll have to have taken the tier 1 Science! Perk

Your SPECIAL also has more weight on your attributes like sneak and barted now

It's safe to assume you'll need certain charisma or perks like ladykiller to accomplish certain dialog options

More numbers doesn't automatically mean it's a better system.

Care to link where Bethesda has said all of this regarding skills? Because from what I've heard they haven't said a word regarding this whole skills debacle.


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I'm talking about the stats governed gameplay, speech checks, skill checks, et cetera. Fallout 4 has removed these and turned the gameplay into what is essentially an FPS.

Can I get a source on those claims?

Did you watch the gameplay?

So lemme get this straight;

You're taking what little gameplay we've seen so far, which has almost certainly been vetted so that no major story is plot is gathered, (e.g. the short chat with the man has been clearly cut out, while the conversation with Codsworth is hardly to going to be anything important that needs speech checks or skills required), and basing it solely off that?

C'mon man, I thought you were better than this. I'll take back what I've said if you turn out to be right, but assuming they've removed the absolute core of Fallout from what little we've garnered so far is just insane. Closer to the mark with more gameplay preview to generate hype (and to respond to accusations such as this) will hopefully quell the doubts.

Removal of stats means no speech or stat checks. If you've actually watched the gameplay (especially the power armor segment) you'll see that it basically plays like a shooter. Every conversation we've seen is a 4 choice dialogue wheel.
stats have been replaced with a more fleshed out perk system which can be seen during the crafting segment video. Instead of putting X number of points into science before you can use a laser pistol, you'll have to have taken the tier 1 Science! Perk

Your SPECIAL also has more weight on your attributes like sneak and barted now

It's safe to assume you'll need certain charisma or perks like ladykiller to accomplish certain dialog options

More numbers doesn't automatically mean it's a better system.

Care to link where Bethesda has said all of this regarding skills? Because from what I've heard they haven't said a word regarding this whole skills debacle.

Did you watch the gameplay?


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uhhh...

- korrie

I'm talking about the stats governed gameplay, speech checks, skill checks, et cetera. Fallout 4 has removed these and turned the gameplay into what is essentially an FPS.

Can I get a source on those claims?

Did you watch the gameplay?

So lemme get this straight;

You're taking what little gameplay we've seen so far, which has almost certainly been vetted so that no major story is plot is gathered, (e.g. the short chat with the man has been clearly cut out, while the conversation with Codsworth is hardly to going to be anything important that needs speech checks or skills required), and basing it solely off that?

C'mon man, I thought you were better than this. I'll take back what I've said if you turn out to be right, but assuming they've removed the absolute core of Fallout from what little we've garnered so far is just insane. Closer to the mark with more gameplay preview to generate hype (and to respond to accusations such as this) will hopefully quell the doubts.

Removal of stats means no speech or stat checks. If you've actually watched the gameplay (especially the power armor segment) you'll see that it basically plays like a shooter. Every conversation we've seen is a 4 choice dialogue wheel.
stats have been replaced with a more fleshed out perk system which can be seen during the crafting segment video. Instead of putting X number of points into science before you can use a laser pistol, you'll have to have taken the tier 1 Science! Perk

Your SPECIAL also has more weight on your attributes like sneak and barted now

It's safe to assume you'll need certain charisma or perks like ladykiller to accomplish certain dialog options

More numbers doesn't automatically mean it's a better system.

Care to link where Bethesda has said all of this regarding skills? Because from what I've heard they haven't said a word regarding this whole skills debacle.

Did you watch the gameplay?
Sick turn around.


 
big sponge
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I'm talking about the stats governed gameplay, speech checks, skill checks, et cetera. Fallout 4 has removed these and turned the gameplay into what is essentially an FPS.

Can I get a source on those claims?

Did you watch the gameplay?

So lemme get this straight;

You're taking what little gameplay we've seen so far, which has almost certainly been vetted so that no major story is plot is gathered, (e.g. the short chat with the man has been clearly cut out, while the conversation with Codsworth is hardly to going to be anything important that needs speech checks or skills required), and basing it solely off that?

C'mon man, I thought you were better than this. I'll take back what I've said if you turn out to be right, but assuming they've removed the absolute core of Fallout from what little we've garnered so far is just insane. Closer to the mark with more gameplay preview to generate hype (and to respond to accusations such as this) will hopefully quell the doubts.

Removal of stats means no speech or stat checks. If you've actually watched the gameplay (especially the power armor segment) you'll see that it basically plays like a shooter. Every conversation we've seen is a 4 choice dialogue wheel.
stats have been replaced with a more fleshed out perk system which can be seen during the crafting segment video. Instead of putting X number of points into science before you can use a laser pistol, you'll have to have taken the tier 1 Science! Perk

Your SPECIAL also has more weight on your attributes like sneak and barted now

It's safe to assume you'll need certain charisma or perks like ladykiller to accomplish certain dialog options

More numbers doesn't automatically mean it's a better system.

Care to link where Bethesda has said all of this regarding skills? Because from what I've heard they haven't said a word regarding this whole skills debacle.

Did you watch the gameplay?

Yeah, it shows the removal of the skills screen, Tod gives lip service to perks without going into any detail, and absolutely nothing on SPECIAL.
Last Edit: June 19, 2015, 09:27:22 PM by LC


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I'm talking about the stats governed gameplay, speech checks, skill checks, et cetera. Fallout 4 has removed these and turned the gameplay into what is essentially an FPS.

Can I get a source on those claims?

Did you watch the gameplay?

So lemme get this straight;

You're taking what little gameplay we've seen so far, which has almost certainly been vetted so that no major story is plot is gathered, (e.g. the short chat with the man has been clearly cut out, while the conversation with Codsworth is hardly to going to be anything important that needs speech checks or skills required), and basing it solely off that?

C'mon man, I thought you were better than this. I'll take back what I've said if you turn out to be right, but assuming they've removed the absolute core of Fallout from what little we've garnered so far is just insane. Closer to the mark with more gameplay preview to generate hype (and to respond to accusations such as this) will hopefully quell the doubts.

Removal of stats means no speech or stat checks. If you've actually watched the gameplay (especially the power armor segment) you'll see that it basically plays like a shooter. Every conversation we've seen is a 4 choice dialogue wheel.
stats have been replaced with a more fleshed out perk system which can be seen during the crafting segment video. Instead of putting X number of points into science before you can use a laser pistol, you'll have to have taken the tier 1 Science! Perk

Your SPECIAL also has more weight on your attributes like sneak and barted now

It's safe to assume you'll need certain charisma or perks like ladykiller to accomplish certain dialog options

More numbers doesn't automatically mean it's a better system.

Care to link where Bethesda has said all of this regarding skills? Because from what I've heard they haven't said a word regarding this whole skills debacle.

Did you watch the gameplay?
Sick turn around.
get it? Because he said that when asked for a source.


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I'm talking about the stats governed gameplay, speech checks, skill checks, et cetera. Fallout 4 has removed these and turned the gameplay into what is essentially an FPS.

Can I get a source on those claims?

Did you watch the gameplay?

So lemme get this straight;

You're taking what little gameplay we've seen so far, which has almost certainly been vetted so that no major story is plot is gathered, (e.g. the short chat with the man has been clearly cut out, while the conversation with Codsworth is hardly to going to be anything important that needs speech checks or skills required), and basing it solely off that?

C'mon man, I thought you were better than this. I'll take back what I've said if you turn out to be right, but assuming they've removed the absolute core of Fallout from what little we've garnered so far is just insane. Closer to the mark with more gameplay preview to generate hype (and to respond to accusations such as this) will hopefully quell the doubts.

Removal of stats means no speech or stat checks. If you've actually watched the gameplay (especially the power armor segment) you'll see that it basically plays like a shooter. Every conversation we've seen is a 4 choice dialogue wheel.
stats have been replaced with a more fleshed out perk system which can be seen during the crafting segment video. Instead of putting X number of points into science before you can use a laser pistol, you'll have to have taken the tier 1 Science! Perk

Your SPECIAL also has more weight on your attributes like sneak and barted now

It's safe to assume you'll need certain charisma or perks like ladykiller to accomplish certain dialog options

More numbers doesn't automatically mean it's a better system.

Care to link where Bethesda has said all of this regarding skills? Because from what I've heard they haven't said a word regarding this whole skills debacle.

Did you watch the gameplay?

Yeah, it shows the removal of the skills screen and Tod gives lip service to perks without going into any detail and absolutely nothing on SPECIAL.
just read the special descriptions. Charisma literally says that it effects dialog options and bartering In shops. Agility says it effects sneak. Strength says it effects melee damage. Clearly all those stats are still there

In the crafting system video as he upgraded the plasma rifle it went from Science! Rank 1-4 and the pistol went through Gun Nut rank 1-4


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M8, that's just SPECIAL. It's always had those descriptions so there's no way you'd be able to infer that it's taken the place of your typical stats and considering this is Bethesda we're talking about (you know, the people who took Morrowinds rather deep and intricate system and turned it into Skyrims casualized, lowest common denominator catering, bore fest) there's little to suggest that they're doing much to retain the little remaining depth that Fallout 3 had. Especially since Tod Howard and Bethesda haven't done anything to assuage the concerns people have of stripped away RPG mechanics.

That being said I still think the game looks good (and fun) and I'm still probably going to pick it up on the PC.


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I just can't sympathize with the "stripped away/watered down RPGelements" arguments. An RPG to me is something that immerses me in the character by allowing me to decide his actions and fate, as well as his appearance, fighting style, and attitude. Know what doesn't do that for me? Clicking endless menus and increasing skills by percentage points. Know what actually does that for me? Polished sandbox experiences, smooth and integrated menus that don't constantly disrupt the flow of gameplay, and roleplaying elements built into the gameplay in meaningful ways rather than feeling like I'm tweaking a spreadsheet.

LC, I'm sorry you feel like the series is casualized. Morrowind was my first real PC game, and I can tell you that I don't miss silly, RNG-style combat, endless menu dialog, and superfluous skills. I've enjoyed Oblivion and Skyrim, as well as Fallout 3 and NV, and that's coming from the same "hard" RPG background. This same conversation has been going on ad nauseam here. Give it a rest.


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emigrate or degenerate. the choice is yours
OR

OR

OR

you could reserve judgment for the game until you actually play it.