Rape day - removed from Steam

FatherlyNick - fuck putin · March 08, 2019, 12:40:47 AM

Many of you probably heard about this already and it seems like 99% of people are okay with this game being removed.

I wanted to discuss why do we let other type of violence slide (Murder, torture, genocide, terrorism) but sexual violence is an instant NOPE?

You can literally nuke a whole town in F3 or kill a heap of civvies in MW2 / GTA games.
Are we just not ready yet or will it never have a place in video games?

Similar situation with the school shooter sim. Why did everyone get mad at that game?

If the line in the sand is killing innocent people, then why did MW2 not get pulled off the shelves or F3 not get an AO rating?
If the problem is partaking an active role in the violence, then what about the R* game Manhunt?
Is it just sex that's the issue here?

Jono · March 08, 2019, 03:01:21 AM

MW2 didn’t get pulled from the shelves because No Russian was a mission that was crucial to the story’s plot. Having just a cutscene showing what happened wouldn’t have had the same emotion and effect on the player. You didn’t have to shoot anyone in that mission at all and the game literally tells you that there’s disturbing scenes that you can choose to skip. You’re not forced to play through No Russian.

MarKhan · March 08, 2019, 03:37:38 AM

Rape day?

MarKhan · March 08, 2019, 03:46:06 AM

How much of a "game" is game about sexual violence? Steam said that games that are "outright trolling" are going to be removed. And you know, Steam sometimes shows double standarts, but if some game just is less of a "game", more of "rape sim" then I don't have problems with them removing it.

FatherlyNick - fuck putin · March 08, 2019, 04:07:38 AM

My question is, why is rape or sexual violence a line that we can't cross in video games?

Rape appears in movies and books and probably did appear in some games too. Is the interactive aspect what pushes it over the edge of acceptable? What if a game just had a rape mechanic not crucial to the game?

MarKhan · March 08, 2019, 04:36:09 AM

Quote from: FatherlyNick on March 08, 2019, 04:07:38 AM

My question is, why is rape or sexual violence a line that we can't cross in video games?

Already crossed, it's just that Steam doesn't allow them on their platform or at least not openly, because they don't want to associate themselves with such games.

Quote from: FatherlyNick on March 08, 2019, 04:07:38 AM

Rape appears in movies and books and probably did appear in some games too. Is the interactive aspect what pushes it over the edge of acceptable?

Interactive aspect is what makes games games, if you make games without interactivity, only rape, how it's different from porn?

FatherlyNick - fuck putin · March 08, 2019, 04:51:52 AM

Quote from: MarKhan on March 08, 2019, 04:36:09 AM

Quote from: FatherlyNick on March 08, 2019, 04:07:38 AM
My question is, why is rape or sexual violence a line that we can't cross in video games?
Already crossed, it's just that Steam doesn't allow them on their platform or at least not openly, because they don't want to associate themselves with such games.

Quote from: FatherlyNick on March 08, 2019, 04:07:38 AM
Rape appears in movies and books and probably did appear in some games too. Is the interactive aspect what pushes it over the edge of acceptable?
Interactive aspect is what makes games games, if you make games without interactivity, only rape, how it's different from porn?

On 1: I can understand Steam - this is definitely something you want to keep away from kids. But in the media discussing this, all I see are people going all out against this particular game and its depiction of rape, their issue is that this game exists regardless what platform it will sell on. I know Illusion has several titles where non-consensual acts can be performed, but why this level of outrage?

On 2: I should have phrased this more completely. What I mean is that you can have rape in a game but not be an active participant. Say for example there is a Rape [Yes] ; [No] prompt. If you pick Yes - the game can fade to black, play some SFX and later tell you that you have committed a terrible crime Karma--. So while there is interactivity, the act itself is concealed and implied.

MarKhan · March 08, 2019, 05:25:16 AM

Quote from: FatherlyNick on March 08, 2019, 04:51:52 AM

On 1: I can understand Steam - this is definitely something you want to keep away from kids. But in the media discussing this, all I see are people going all out against this particular game and its depiction of rape, their issue is that this game exists regardless what platform it will sell on. I know Illusion has several titles where non-consensual acts can be performed, but why this level of outrage?

On 2: I should have phrased this more completely. What I mean is that you can have rape in a game but not be an active participant. Say for example there is a Rape [Yes] ; [No] prompt. If you pick Yes - the game can fade to black, play some SFX and later tell you that you have committed a terrible crime Karma--. So while there is interactivity, the act itself is concealed and implied.

On 1: Media just picks on this game because name maybe? Because it will give them clicks and journalists have to write articles to earn money? Funny thing, some of articles has more words in it than in this game. Another funny thing - if not media outrage, nobody would know about this game. ANOTHER funny thing - there are games worse than this on Steam. It seems to me like media just tries to fabricate outrage to see if it leads to a desired to them effect, to see if they can impose their ideology on a major gaming platform.

On 2: I don't exactly understand you, you asking if game like RapeDay could be on Steam? Well, I'm pretty sure there are games worse on Steam than RapeDay, so why not. I looked up and it's seems that it doesn't breaks any law as far as I concerned. If media wouldn't cause an outrage, game would pass, it would probably get little to no attention because it's some shitty VN and it wouldn't be even noticed.

maverick · March 08, 2019, 10:05:28 AM

Partly due to conditioning, partly due to the era we live it.

For the most part, rape has never been an aspect of mainstream games, whereas mass murder has been a part of games for years now (which drew controversy in the 00s). This can also be observed in other mediums, such as the original Psycho drawing criticism for showing an unmarried couple in the same bed and that woman in her bra, but by the sequels this was no longer taboo.

It’s also worth mentioning that the era of “#MeToo” and frequent school shootings is not the time to be setting these precedents. Would Infinity Ward have been able to get away with “No Russian” right after 9/11? Probably not. Regardless, a game about a school shooter seems in poor taste even if it wasn’t such a common tragedy as it is.

The fact that the outrage is coming from younger millennials rather than older conservatives likely also is what swayed valve. I think they recognize the hypocrisy though, which is why they seemed encouraging to the developers in their message.

Ian · March 08, 2019, 01:00:40 PM

Now here's a question, if there was a game with a story that needed a single rape scene to move the plot and invoke an emotional response in the player; would that be okay? Would that be drawing the line? I think video games are also getting a stigma just for being games is also playing a role here. Movies and books and TV shows have been doing this for a while now; and while those mediums tend not to have blatant trolling situations like Rape Day, there's never any real scrutiny against them on the matter. It feels like a game with what I described in the first sentence would still get demonized to Hell and back.

Verbatim · March 08, 2019, 01:16:03 PM

obviously, you're allowed to put whatever objectionable content you want in your game, because it's your game and your art

but steam is allowed to host whatever games they want on their platform

that's pretty much the end of the discussion

Verbatim · March 08, 2019, 01:24:17 PM

Quote from: FatherlyNick on March 08, 2019, 04:07:38 AM

My question is, why is rape or sexual violence a line that we can't cross in video games?

Rape appears in movies and books and probably did appear in some games too. Is the interactive aspect what pushes it over the edge of acceptable? What if a game just had a rape mechanic not crucial to the game?

it CAN be crossed, and it has been, there are just more consequences associated with it because it's a more taboo subject

why is it more taboo than murder? to me, it's kind of one of those self-evident things that's hard to explain

if you were guaranteed to be both raped and murdered in your life, but you could choose which one you could experience first, which would you choose

would you rather be raped and then murdered, or murdered and then raped

i think it would be pretty obvious which one you'd choose

🍁 Aria 🔮 · March 08, 2019, 06:05:47 PM

The West has a cultural fascination and love of violence. Slashers, war films, super heroes, Avatar, and even Disney: what do they have in common? Even if it isn't explicitly shown, or overtly bloody, we popularly prefer our fights to be physical. Guns, bare-knuckle brawls, knives, pushes, and torches. Despite this, there have still been controversies around violence in video games. MW2 did still make appearances in the news, Jack Thompson and Hillary Clinton had their attempt at regulating the industry in response to GTA IV. Sexual violence has always been a touchy subject, and in the post-#MeToo world it's a taboo. There's never been a place for it to get footing in our culture, and unless something horrible happens it never will.

🍁 Aria 🔮 · March 08, 2019, 06:09:18 PM

Quote from: Ian on March 08, 2019, 01:00:40 PM

Now here's a question, if there was a game with a story that needed a single rape scene to move the plot and invoke an emotional response in the player; would that be okay? Would that be drawing the line? I think video games are also getting a stigma just for being games is also playing a role here. Movies and books and TV shows have been doing this for a while now; and while those mediums tend not to have blatant trolling situations like Rape Day, there's never any real scrutiny against them on the matter. It feels like a game with what I described in the first sentence would still get demonized to Hell and back.

One can create a piece of art that interacts with controversial and terrible things to either lend to a larger, more important theme or to comment on those things itself. If it is done tastefully and carefully, then it is okay.

Most people are unable to meet either of those standards, unfortunately, regardless of their good intent.

Verbatim · March 08, 2019, 06:18:15 PM

Quote from: Ian on March 08, 2019, 01:00:40 PM

Now here's a question, if there was a game with a story that needed a single rape scene to move the plot and invoke an emotional response in the player; would that be okay?

bear in mind that there are already several games like this, the most notable recent one might be red dead redemption 2

i haven't really seen more than the usual degree of controversy for that game, so it doesn't seem like you're not allowed to depict rape in video games--but once you start implementing rape in such a way where it's meant to be a fun thing to do in your game, i think that's when it starts becoming a problem for most people

the best thing you can say about rape day is that it tests the limits of what people will allow themselves to do in order to have fun in a video game, but i highly doubt the creators had that in mind during the game's development, and they're probably just stupid edgelords