Overwatch

Killua | Legendary Invincible!
 
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New thread because the old one got locked due to inactivity


Tried my hand at a combined highlight, it's pretty shit tbh
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Jono
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Goodness gracious, great balls of lightning!
Got the Nova skin so now it's time to main Widowmaker


Aether | Legendary Invincible!
 
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Long live NoNolesNeckin.

Ya fuckin' ganderneck.
I got turned off from Overwatch when Blizzard decided to start monitoring people's social media for the ever so vague scourge of online gaming, "toxic behavior." That shit sounds ripe for abuse.

Shit talk and banter has always been a part of competitive play, and I don't have faith that video game devs are capable of understanding the nuance and context of every situation with the potential to offend someone.


 
 
Flee
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I'm actually planning on getting back into it. I recently played a few games with a friend and it was surprisingly fun.

Also, you can always PM a mod and ask one of us to unlock an old thread.


 
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I DONT GIVE A SINGLE -blam!- MOTHER -blam!-ER ITS A MOTHER -blam!-ING FORUM, OH WOW, YOU HAVE THE WORD NINJA BELOW YOUR NAME, HOW MOTHER -blam!-ING COOL, NOT, YOUR ARE NOTHING TO ME BUT A BRAINWASHED PIECE OF SHIT BLOGGER, PEOPLE ONLY LIKE YOU BECAUSE YOU HAVE NINJA BELOW YOUR NAME, SO PLEASE PUNCH YOURAELF IN THE FACE AND STAB YOUR EYE BECAUSE YOU ARE NOTHING BUT A PIECE OF SHIT OF SOCIETY
I'm actually planning on getting back into it. I recently played a few games with a friend and it was surprisingly fun.

Also, you can always PM a mod and ask one of us to unlock an old thread.
A kill stealer like you shouldn't be a mod.


 
 
Flee
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I got turned off from Overwatch when Blizzard decided to start monitoring people's social media for the ever so vague scourge of online gaming, "toxic behavior." That shit sounds ripe for abuse.

Shit talk and banter has always been a part of competitive play, and I don't have faith that video game devs are capable of understanding the nuance and context of every situation with the potential to offend someone.
This seems like a bit of an overstated issue. Seems to me like they're just going to look at controversial gameplay on YouTube and Twitch to pick up on abusive behavior that might not have been reported. I'd be very surprised if they'd care about your everyday banter. Blizzard will likely just focus on the people putting out blatantly abusive content or being in those recordings, and there's plenty of them out there. I recently saw a video on Reddit where some guy constantly harassed female players in voice chat until they stopped talking completely and followed them around as Mei to put icewalls in front of them every few seconds. We don't know enough details yet, but I'd applaud them for going above and beyond their game to pick up on that stuff and put an end to it. Cautious props to them for raising the bar of in-game moderation.
Last Edit: January 29, 2018, 02:05:23 PM by Flee


 
 
Flee
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I'm actually planning on getting back into it. I recently played a few games with a friend and it was surprisingly fun.

Also, you can always PM a mod and ask one of us to unlock an old thread.
A kill stealer like you shouldn't be a mod.
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Aether | Legendary Invincible!
 
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Long live NoNolesNeckin.

Ya fuckin' ganderneck.
I got turned off from Overwatch when Blizzard decided to start monitoring people's social media for the ever so vague scourge of online gaming, "toxic behavior." That shit sounds ripe for abuse.

Shit talk and banter has always been a part of competitive play, and I don't have faith that video game devs are capable of understanding the nuance and context of every situation with the potential to offend someone.
This seems like a bit of an overstated issue. Seems to me like they're just going to look at controversial gameplay on YouTube and Twitch to pick up on abusive behavior that might not have been reported. I'd be very surprised if they'd care about your everyday banter. Blizzard will likely just focus on the people putting out blatantly abusive content or being in those recordings, and there's plenty of them out there. I recently saw a video on Reddit where some guy constantly harassed female players in voice chat until they stopped talking completely and followed them around as Mei to put icewalls in front of them every few seconds. We don't know enough details yet, but I'd applaud them for going above and beyond their game to pick up on that stuff and put an end to it. Cautious props to them for raising the bar of in-game moderation.
I'm not accusing them of being abusive yet, let me just clarify that. I'm turned off by their decision mostly out of principle. Toxicity is arbitrary and the idea of a person being excluded from a game, possibly permanently, because of a decision made by a game developer taking the position of a moral arbiter for the community. . . in fact the idea of a developer taking the position of moral arbiter to begin with. .  well it just isn't something I feel comfortable supporting, and abuse is absolutely a possibility with this new policy regardless of whether or not you believe it's an overstatement.

Blizzard makes games, I don't trust them to decide on what ultimately is or is not offensive to players. I don't trust any developer to decide that. I'm willing to compromise at the level of developers banning words like 'nigger' from gamertags or taking action against players for throwing games, cheating, preventing other players from playing properly etc. That level of moderation is basically essential for online games to function well. But if some kid just generally shit talks to the other team indiscriminately when he plays and makes videos then I don't believe any action should be taken against him. That, I would say, is overreaching.

Blizzard can certainly do whatever they want with Overwatch, it's their game. We'll just have to wait and see whether or not they take it that far, and I probably won't be playing again until I know how this plays out.
Last Edit: January 29, 2018, 03:24:33 PM by Aether


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I'm actually planning on getting back into it. I recently played a few games with a friend and it was surprisingly fun.

Also, you can always PM a mod and ask one of us to unlock an old thread.
oh


 
 
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I'm actually planning on getting back into it. I recently played a few games with a friend and it was surprisingly fun.

Also, you can always PM a mod and ask one of us to unlock an old thread.
oh
Send me a link and I'll unlock it if you still want me to.


 
 
Flee
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I'm not accusing them of being abusive yet, let me just clarify that. I'm turned off by their decision mostly out of principle. Toxicity is arbitrary and the idea of a person being excluded from a game, possibly permanently, because of a decision made by a game developer taking the position of a moral arbiter for the community. . . in fact the idea of a developer taking the position of moral arbiter to begin with. .  well it just isn't something I feel comfortable supporting, and abuse is absolutely a possibility with this new policy regardless of whether or not you believe it's an overstatement.

Blizzard makes games, I don't trust them to decide on what ultimately is or is not offensive to players. I don't trust any developer to decide that. I'm willing to compromise at the level of developers banning words like 'nigger' from gamertags or taking action against players for throwing games, cheating, preventing other players from playing properly etc. That level of moderation is basically essential for online games to function well. But if some kid just generally shit talks to the other team indiscriminately when he plays and makes videos then I don't believe any action should be taken against him. That, I would say, is overreaching.

Blizzard can certainly do whatever they want with Overwatch, it's their game. We'll just have to wait and see whether or not they take it that far, and I probably won't be playing again until I know how this plays out.
I see where you're coming from, but how is it any different from just about any other online platform or service? The issue you have with this is that the developers are being a "moral arbiter" of sorts, but I don't see how that differs from what Blizzard and hundreds of others have already been doing for years. Webhosts, social media, forums and marketplaces do it. Microsoft, Sony, Bungie.net, Facebook, Twitter and even this very site all act like a moral arbiter and decide on what's essentially a moral code of conduct that involves the exclusion of people who don't abide. And as is the case with any kind of rule or law, this needs to be sufficiently vague to be applied to practical situations which naturally involves a certain amount of discretion. This is nothing new and companies setting and enforcing a code of conduct for their platform / service by acting as a "moral arbiter" has been around for decades, more often than not without solely relying on a report function to bring abuisve behavior to their attention. You say you're not comfortable with a developer being a moral arbiter, but many of them already are. And while not technically a developer in this instance, Valve also has its own rules of conduct for Steam and has been sanctioning toxic people in its community for years.

So I'm not really sure if we're on the same page about what their new policy is, as I don't really see how you're fine with using these other sites and services then. The only difference here is that Blizzard doesn't just rely on reports but also monitors what happens in-game through other means, which is something that happens elswhere just the same. To my knowledge, Blizzard hasn't changed their actual policy one bit. They've just made it so that they're better equipped to pick up on behavior that would have already been breaking the rules before.
Last Edit: January 30, 2018, 02:17:59 PM by Flee


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Long live NoNolesNeckin.

Ya fuckin' ganderneck.
I'm not accusing them of being abusive yet, let me just clarify that. I'm turned off by their decision mostly out of principle. Toxicity is arbitrary and the idea of a person being excluded from a game, possibly permanently, because of a decision made by a game developer taking the position of a moral arbiter for the community. . . in fact the idea of a developer taking the position of moral arbiter to begin with. .  well it just isn't something I feel comfortable supporting, and abuse is absolutely a possibility with this new policy regardless of whether or not you believe it's an overstatement.

Blizzard makes games, I don't trust them to decide on what ultimately is or is not offensive to players. I don't trust any developer to decide that. I'm willing to compromise at the level of developers banning words like 'nigger' from gamertags or taking action against players for throwing games, cheating, preventing other players from playing properly etc. That level of moderation is basically essential for online games to function well. But if some kid just generally shit talks to the other team indiscriminately when he plays and makes videos then I don't believe any action should be taken against him. That, I would say, is overreaching.

Blizzard can certainly do whatever they want with Overwatch, it's their game. We'll just have to wait and see whether or not they take it that far, and I probably won't be playing again until I know how this plays out.
I see where you're coming from, but how is it any different from just about any other online platform or service? The issue you have with this is that the developers are being a "moral arbiter" of sorts, but I don't see how that differs from what Blizzard and hundreds of others have already been doing for years. Webhosts, social media, forums and marketplaces do it. Microsoft, Sony, Bungie.net, Facebook, Twitter and even this very site all act like a moral arbiter and decide on what's essentially a moral code of conduct that involves the exclusion of people who don't abide. And as is the case with any kind of rule or law, this needs to be sufficiently vague to be applied to practical situations which naturally involves a certain amount of discretion. This is nothing new and companies setting and enforcing a code of conduct for their platform / service by acting as a "moral arbiter" has been around for decades, more often than not without solely relying on a report function to bring abuisve behavior to their attention. You say you're not comfortable with a developer being a moral arbiter, but many of them already are. And while not technically a developer in this instance, Valve also has its own rules of conduct for Steam and has been sanctioning toxic people in its community for years.

So I'm not really sure if we're on the same page about what their new policy is, as I don't really see how you're fine with using these other sites and services then. The only difference here is that Blizzard doesn't just rely on reports but also monitors what happens in-game through other means, which is something that happens elswhere just the same. To my knowledge, Blizzard hasn't changed their actual policy one bit. They've just made it so that they're better equipped to pick up on behavior that would have already been breaking the rules before.
Well I figured I explained the moral arbiter issue well enough. I know any platform has to enforce certain rules, and I don't think there's anything unreasonable about that. I detailed the level at which I am willing to compromise because that is the level I find reasonable. My concern is how likely is it that things will go beyond that level, to the level of abuse.

The difference for me is that they are now going beyond their own platforms to look for problems. They're going the extra mile to curb 'toxic behavior,' a very broad and ultimately subjective term to be sure, in this turbulent climate of taking offense to just about everything we currently find ourselves in.

It isn't that they've been abusive yet, it's that the potential for abuse is becoming more and more evident as these policies progress, but also as the sentiment surrounding them progresses alongside this very vocal culture of outrage. And as it has gone with so many other companies, I think the chances that Blizzard may capitulate to the demands of a minority of overly sensitive and highly vocal players (perhaps even people that aren't even players, but merely wish to exercise ideological influence over things they don't like) . . well I think they're too high for my tastes.

If this wasn't just so happening at a time when so many organizations, whether governmental, business, or academic are trying to accommodate a person's feelings, even sometimes at the expense of truth itself, then I might not have such a bad feeling about all of this.

Like I said, I'm not blaming Blizzard for any form of abuse yet, I'm just waiting to see how this plays out. Maybe they'll stay fair. Maybe they will respect the values of freedom of expression. I certainly hope so, and if they do then they'll have my respect.

I just don't want to see this morph into WOTC scenario over time, where they're banning players for posting controversial opinions on external private social media, that has nothing to do with the games they make.


 
 
Flee
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Fair enough. I'm just still surprised by your reaction of not playing the game anymore just because they might abuse their policy (since this is a risk that has been there since day 1 and I'm far from convinced this increases it by much). All they're doing now is looking at evidence of abusive behavior in-game when it's available elsewhere so that people breaking the rules don't get away with it when no one hit the report button. I'm also not sure how much information Blizzard collects from matches that take place, but I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't keep full recordings of every single match making things like the described situation of someone constantly blocking a female player in competitive modes hard to pick up without video evidence. They're not broadening what they consider toxic behavior, they're just improving their methods of picking up on people breaking the same rules they've already had in place.

That's the reason why I struggle finding myself in your position. To me this seems entirely separate from them caving to the vocal minority. On the one hand, they could have given in to the offended people just as easily without this new system in place and be more ban happy when someone hit the report button in-game. And on the other, they can easily implement new measures to better pick up on things that already broke the rules without making the rules any more strict. This just seems like a strange time to quit the game on principle when all this really does is allow Blizzard to use footage from Youtube and Twitch to stop rulebreakers rather than letting them go unnoticed or unaddressed.

I think every policy has room for abuse and I just haven't seen any reason to think this might happen here with Blizzard. I also kinda think the narrative of "PC offended culture forces caring for feelings over actual truth / facts because the wrongspeak police will get ya" is pretty overstated. I can't really think of many examples where the truth was ignored for people's feelings, and it seems like the Magic bans were about much more than just controversial opinions by your ordinary player. But even then, there's nothing wrong with trying to keep a friendly and inclusive environment. If you tell your coworker that she's disgustingly fat and eats like a pig, you can fully expect to be fired for harassing / attacking a person and creating a hostile and unworkable work space, even if it's a fac that she really is morbidly obese. This doesn't have anything to do with the "value of free speech" and I fully support Blizzard in ridding their community of the toxic, abusive and hateful players when their actions negatively affect others.
Last Edit: January 30, 2018, 07:07:12 PM by Flee


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Long live NoNolesNeckin.

Ya fuckin' ganderneck.
Oh I'm not planning on stopping playing forever or anything. Not unless they actually start abusing the new policy. I don't expect Blizzard specifically to be abusive. I don't have any real negative bias towards them as a company, and I would like to think that they aren't abusive. It's just that I've seen this same sort of sentiment slowly morph into abuse over time from other organizations having been watching the social-political landscape more intently than I ever have really over the past two or so years now.

This seems all too familiar to me and it's that uneasy feeling I'm getting from this that is turning me away from virtually anything right now that is taking new steps to prevent 'abuse.' It's because what actually constitutes abuse seems to be constantly shifting towards things that are more and more benign in nature. I just can't be sure of whether or not it's an appeal to this outrage culture we find ourselves in currently. I certainly hope it isn't, and I'll surely be one to give Blizzard props if they remain fair.

Like I said, if this wasn't happening during a time where taking offense to everything has become the new 'cool' thing to do, then I probably would've have such an uneasy feeling about it.

Also, I'm not very privy to the extent of the bans WOTC dished out to certain players. I simply know that they banned one of their most prominent players for having posted something deemed controversial on a private facebook group. Something entirely disconnected from MTG itself from what I've heard on multiple accounts, and if WOTC is truly banning players for expressing controversial opinions in a private setting away from any platform owned or associated with WOTC, that I would say is taking it too far.

As for the sacrifice of truth for the sake of feelings, yes it is happening. And in universities of all places. The idea that humans are born as a blank slate, the denial of biological differences between the sexes, the idea of the scientific method being an oppressive tool of western colonialism, these are sentiments that have been expressed in academic institutions as of late. The vast majority of students don't seem to share them, thankfully, but they have no place in a university, and the fact that untruth is being tolerated now, presumably to not upset certain people, is unacceptable to me. But anyways, I digress and this thread is about Overwatch. It looks like we at least understand each other even if we don't exactly agree so lets just leave it at that.
Last Edit: January 30, 2018, 07:42:02 PM by Aether


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my chemistry lab prof plays overwatch

ive never played the game but it's a bit weird to hear her talk about it



 
 
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Fair enough. I think we probably agree on more than it seems. I just think that much of the outrage about this is undeserved and that the whole "offended PC culture silences people and the truth" is massively overstated. The very few fringe people who act like that at universities and the like don't seem to gain much traction and their sentiments are not at all institutionalized or in positions of power.

And I also think that most of these reports are far from accurate and often leave out context. Take the WOTC bans, for example. To my knowledge there's two well known players that received a ban recently. One of them, Jeremy Hambly / Unsleeved Media, seems to have been a pretty notoriously toxic content creator who made numerous videos and tweets attacking and harassing other members of the community. A well known female cosplayer left the Magic community after he targeted her pretty relentlessly by making videos insulting her and leaving messages like "you're a dog, 3/10 but I'd still do you". Several of his videos were removed by YouTube itself because they violated their standards. After getting his fans involved against people he disliked and not doing anything to stop the kind of abuse he pretty clearly set them up to, he claims he's "only trolling" or "just joking" after telling women things like "I wouldn't even rape you". The dude even tried to sabotage panels at WOTC and threatened to harass other content creators during a Magic event. Sorry, but that doesn't have anything to do with controversial opinions. It's toxic harassment and WOTC have all the reason to exclude these kinds of people from their events for breaking their code of conduct.

The other, Travis Woo (who you're probably referring to), didn't exactly get banned for his opinions on Facebook away from Magic. He got banned for creating and leading a group called "Magic for Bad" which hosted things like people listing pictures of female community members and Magic players for others to comment on and rank them based on who they'd drop or fuck, as well as plenty of other racist and sexist content. The professional team he was on dropped him because of this before he was banned and also released a statement saying he had a history of shitty behavior. Framing this as posting "an opinion deemed controversial" is kind of misleading, I think.

"Donald Trump is a great president" is a controversial but fair opinion. "Fuck Hillary I wish she'd get raped after Trump beat her" is not. "Mass immigration is harmful to the host country" is a controversial but fair opinion. "I wish these fucking sandniggers and Muslim RAPEfugees would drown trying to cross the sea" is not. Speaking out against overly regressive social policies is a controversial opinion. Keeping lists of the women in your community based on what you'd do to them sexually and saying things like "fuck the japs" in conversations about how "Nanking should be raped a bit more roughly" is not. The latter, which this guy was involved in, is toxic trash and now that I read up on it I fully support WOTC for kicking these kinds of people out of their tours and community events for breaking the code of conduct. This isn't PC culture gone wild. This is no different from professional sport leagues and sponsors sanctioning players who represent them poorly and make the workspace hostile and unpleasant for many people there. This has been around for before the internet was even a thing. If you're a representative of a business and publicly talk about the holocaust and how "the jews took it to a point where the Germans would revolt and get back at them" (which is another thing this guy did), you should definitely expect to get fired.


 
 
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More on topic though, they've changed a fuckload of things since I last played. Roadhog can walk while healing? D.Va has rockets and Junk has two mines? Mercy can fly and doesn't revive everyone anymore? Damn dude.


 
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and Mercy just got nerfed again. no more dual rez and slower valk speed. rip mercy, it was nice to see you in the game for a few months before putting you back on the shelf.


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Blizzard decided to start monitoring people's social media

What the actual fuck?


 
 
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Blizzard decided to start monitoring people's social media

What the actual fuck?
They can now look at video footage of people playing the game on sites like Twitch and Youtube to determine if people are breaking the rules. "Monitoring people's social media" makes it sound like they're looking at your Facebook and banning people for their posts on there, but that's not what this is about at all.


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https://twitter.com/PlayOverwatch/status/959229939898761216

Year of the dog confirmed for Thursday February 8th.


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Is this a thread or a thesis


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OT: Mercy main best main


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YouTube


oh btw the seasonal event is live since yesterday